Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

[DrJones]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

even if you only counted his MLB time he would be. But its the BASEBALL HOF not the MLB hall of fame so all of his play in Japan counts too.

Actually, it doesn't. It's the NATIONAL (ie, American) Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, otherwise a handful of Japanese players (Sadaharu Oh, at least) would've already been inducted. I wouldn't be surprised if this changed in the future (Negro Leaguers weren't considered until 1971), but as of now, what players do in "foreign" leagues means nothing when it comes to the Hall of Fame.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

Of course he is. Probably the best P4P hitter of all time. The things he did in his prime with a bat were amazing. All without the juice too.

[DrJones]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

The guy is one of the best hitters of this generation, and probably one of the best all-time.

If Ichiro were to be judged solely as a hitter, he'd be borderline, as he rarely walks or hits for power. Combined with his baserunning and defence (and being the first Japanese superstar in MLB), however, he's a shoo-in.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

One of my favorite players...

Besides that, he is SURELY a HOF'er ... my goodness this could not even be a discussion. (Yet ESPN will find a way to make it one, so they can justify paying their "analysts")

The man's accolades speak for themselves, in Japan and USA.

[thaima1shu]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

If Ichiro were to be judged solely as a hitter, he'd be borderline, as he rarely walks or hits for power. Combined with his baserunning and defence (and being the first Japanese superstar in MLB), however, he's a shoo-in.

While I see what you are saying, even with his lack of power and walks I still think he is a guaranteed hall of famer just as a hitter. Just look at the sheer number of hits he puts up every year:

242, 208, 212, 262, 206, 224, 238, 213, 225

And he's still in good shape, so I think there could easily be more 200 hit seasons in the future.

[ehh]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

This isn't even a question, of course he is. Great defender and phenomenal hitter. What's his career hit total at now including his time back home?

.332 career hitter in the MLB, 200 hits in every season, over 2,000 hits in MLB, great base stealer, "laser-rocket arm" lol and more.

[kcxiv]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

lol, Easy. If he retired right now, he's a hall of famer. if he retired before the start of last season, he's a hall of famer.

[DrJones]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

While I see what you are saying, even with his lack of power and walks I still think he is a guaranteed hall of famer just as a hitter.

Just look at the sheer number of hits he puts up every year:

242, 208, 212, 262, 206, 224, 238, 213, 225

And he's still in good shape, so I think there could easily be more 200 hit seasons in the future.

If all hits were created equal, I'd agree with you.

[thaima1shu]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

If all hits were created equal, I'd agree with you.

A point well taken, but let me ask you this. Let's say he puts up 200+ hits for the next 4 years, which I think is entirely possible. That would make 13 consecutive 200+ hit seasons, 13 straight years over .300 batting average. Do you still consider him borderline then?

[fugazi]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

yes. no doubt. there is no contemporary player to Ichiro that has done what he has done, much less more than once or twice. Doesn't matter if they are singles or homers...most (as in nearly all) hitters don't put up those numbers simply because they cannot.

In today's game, there is Pujols, ARod, and Ichiro. That's it...who else belongs in that company? And, one of them, uh, you know... There is a small number that could join that company with continued consistent production...I am thinking Teixera, and Jason Heyward (j/k)

Manny and Chipper, though standouts, even fall a little short.

and this isn't even taking defense into account.

[DrJones]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

A point well taken, but let me ask you this. Let's say he puts up 200+ hits for the next 4 years, which I think is entirely possible. That would make 13 consecutive 200+ hit seasons, 13 straight years over .300 batting average. Do you still consider him borderline then?

No, he'd probably make it in that case.

I'm just responding to people who say he should be in if he retired today simply based as a hitter and I disagree with that premise. If Ichiro had the defensive/baserunning value of say, Adam Dunn, there's no way Ichiro would be HoF-worthy after his first nine MLB seasons.

[DrJones]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

yes. no doubt. there is no contemporary player to Ichiro that has done what he has done, much less more than once or twice. Doesn't matter if they are singles or homers...most (as in nearly all) hitters don't put up those numbers simply because they cannot.

In today's game, there is Pujols, ARod, and Ichiro. That's it...who else belongs in that company? And, one of them, uh, you know... There is a small number that could join that company with continued consistent production...I am thinking Teixera, and Jason Heyward (j/k)

Manny and Chipper, though standouts, even fall a little short.

and this isn't even taking defense into account.

So strictly as a hitter, Ichiro has had a better career than Manny Ramirez? 2001-09 Ichiro would be a better DH than 1998-06 Manny? LOL

[SPTO]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

If all hits were created equal, I'd agree with you.

The thing is, Ichiro isn't just a great hitter he's a great defensive outfielder. I know what you're saying here but look at Ozzie Smith who wasn't exactly an average hitter but his defense got him into the Hall. The reverse is true with Pete Rose who would be in the HOF just for the sheer number of hits (most of whom were singles) yet he was a poor to average defender.

Ichiro has the total package and it's safe to say that he's got at least 2 or 3 more 200+ hit seasons left in his bat while his defense is still pretty solid for the most part as well.

He's a HOFer no doubt about it.

[wwharton]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

If all hits were created equal, I'd agree with you.

So how do you think he compares to Wade Boggs? He's also racked up a ton of steals and runs (of course).

[DrJones]

Re: Ichiro. Hall of Famer?

The thing is, Ichiro isn't just a great hitter he's a great defensive outfielder. I know what you're saying here but look at Ozzie Smith who wasn't exactly an average hitter but his defense got him into the Hall. The reverse is true with Pete Rose who would be in the HOF just for the sheer number of hits (most of whom were singles) yet he was a poor to average defender.

Ichiro has the total package and it's safe to say that he's got at least 2 or 3 more 200+ hit seasons left in his bat while his defense is still pretty solid for the most part as well.

He's a HOFer no doubt about it.

Re-read my posts in this thread.