Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

[SPTO]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

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Classy gesture there by Galarraga and the Tigers. Sure Joyce made a bad call but it was bang bang at the bag so I can see how he could get it wrong. Everything i've heard about the guy is that he's a good ump. I just hope this doesn't tarnish his reputation.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

You can't reverse that call. No matter how blatantly obvious it is to everyone else, you just can't. You're opening up Pandora's Box by doing that. I'd much rather have the Commish say no to reversal, then open it up for discussion based on circumstances. It brings in too many variables for one man to decide upon.

That's the thing though, it DOESN'T open Pandora's Box because this is such a clear cut, final out scenario in a historically rare situation.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Selig's a dope, but it's the right call to NOT overturn the decision and award the perfect game.

What would truly be wrong however, would be to ignore the fact there needs to be instant replay in certain, defined situations. Selig and the owners can no longer continue to deny that instant replay isn't necessary in limited circumstances...if they do then that will be just as tragic as this kid being robbed of his role in the sport's history.

And for that matter, his role in the sport's history may be larger than throwing a perfect game.....if losing a perfect game leads to a workable replay review process that guarantees this sort of thing never happens again, then as bad as it is to lose that accomplishment, what we all gain may be worth it.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

That's the thing though, it DOESN'T open Pandora's Box because this is such a clear cut, final out scenario in a historically rare situation.

So should he explicitly state only reverse decisions for 8 2/3 perfect game, final out, blown calls?

You don't think any other major league team would point to this one reversal as precedent for reviewing future calls? Because I sure do.

What if the ump calls no fan interference (when it looks like there is) on a game winning home run with 2 outs in the ninth? Either way, one team wins the game. Wouldn't the team on the short end of the stick look to this reversal as precedent?

[rangerrick012]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

So should he explicitly state only reverse decisions for 8 2/3 perfect game, final out, blown calls?

You don't think any other major league team would point to this one reversal as precedent for reviewing future calls? Because I sure do.

What if the ump calls no fan interference (when it looks like there is) on a game winning home run with 2 outs in the ninth? Either way, one team wins the game. Wouldn't the team on the short end of the stick look to this reversal as precedent?

That's different though. Calling this a perfect game doesn't change the outcome of the game. Bud should've overturned it.

In any case, this should lead to instant replay. Not for balls/strikes, that I do agree with, but for out/safe calls, there's no valid reason for not having it in place. Human element should be overridden when the technology is there and available to make sure the call is correct.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

That's the thing though, it DOESN'T open Pandora's Box because this is such a clear cut, final out scenario in a historically rare situation.

OK, then I want the terrible call at second base last night on the final play of the Twins-Mariners game overturned. It allowed the winning run to score. Sorry, but you can't pick and choose. It is what it is. What if that one game costs the Twins a playoff spot or homefield advantage?

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

But like Rangerrick said, this had no change on the outcome of the game.

Change THIS, and institute instant replay so that all the other nonsense stops happening.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

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Classy gesture there by Galarraga and the Tigers. Sure Joyce made a bad call but it was bang bang at the bag so I can see how he could get it wrong. Everything i've heard about the guy is that he's a good ump. I just hope this doesn't tarnish his reputation.

Sorry it was not bang bang, he was out by 1 to 1.5 steps. I know real time it looked alot different than the replays, but for a major league umpire 1 to 1.5 steps is still not bang bang.

Can anybody honestly say in real time it looked like he was safe? If not it wasn't bang bang. Bang bang is a half of a step or less.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

But like Rangerrick said, this had no change on the outcome of the game.

Change THIS, and institute instant replay so that all the other nonsense stops happening.

See, I don't think just because it doesn't change the outcome of the game it should be reversed. What if the next hitter after Donald hits a 2 run HR and the Indians come back and win last night? Would people still be calling for a reversal today?

I think you walk a very fine line when you pick and choose what and what not to reverse. Especially when it's up to a guy like Bud Selig.

To me, I'd rather this lead to a re-examination of instant replay in baseball rather than changing it, and then developing a re-examination. You're leaving that window between now and a new instant replay format for chance in case something similar happens that can directly change the outcome.

[Deadeye15]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

But like Rangerrick said, this had no change on the outcome of the game.

Change THIS, and institute instant replay so that all the other nonsense stops happening.

I agree with this completely. Bud should overturn this call, which as has been stated, had no outcome on the final score of the game and give the man the perfect game he rightfully earned.

Like Matrix said, change the call and institute instant replay and there isn't any "pandora's box" or anything. If instant replay was in effect last night this never would've happened and when it's added now there really isn't a way this would happen again. Once in a lifetime scenario. The call in the Mariner's game that was mentioned changed the outcome of the game. The other examples that I've heard people mentioning are the same, there is always another circumstance. This is different, and should be treated as so.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Sorry it was not bang bang, he was out by 1 to 1.5 steps. I know real time it looked alot different than the replays, but for a major league umpire 1 to 1.5 steps is still not bang bang.

Can anybody honestly say in real time it looked like he was safe? If not it wasn't bang bang. Bang bang is a half of a step or less.

His foot that touched the bag was in the air when Galarraga caught the ball. Moving that fast, I don't see how it isn't bang-bang. To me, it's irrelevant though because he obviously doesn't have a vendetta against Galarraga or the Tigers.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

See, I don't think just because it doesn't change the outcome of the game it should be reversed. What if the next hitter after Donald hits a 2 run HR and the Indians come back and win last night? Would people still be calling for a reversal today?

I think you walk a very fine line when you pick and choose what and what not to reverse. Especially when it's up to a guy like Bud Selig.

To me, I'd rather this lead to a re-examination of instant replay in baseball rather than changing it, and then developing a re-examination. You're leaving that window between now and a new instant replay format for chance in case something similar happens that can directly change the outcome.

That is the point though, they didn't. It would have no bearing on the final outcome. Either way the Indians lost, whether it be on that out or the next one.

I doubt the Indians would protest if it was reversed either. Their dugout looked as shocked as everybody else at the call.

This is a unique circumstance and comparing to plays like the ones from the Twins game last night like some are doing doesn't make sense because that would have an impact on the outcome.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

His foot that touched the bag was in the air when Galarraga caught the ball. Moving that fast, I don't see how it isn't bang-bang. To me, it's irrelevant though because he obviously doesn't have a vendetta against Galarraga or the Tigers.

He was still a full step away at best though, for a MLB ump that is not bang bang. Maybe for you and I it is if we were the ump, but MLB umps 95% get calls right that are a half a step or less let alone a full step.

People can argue all they want that it was bang bang, but they would be wrong based on what I just explained.

Like I said, did anybody think he was safe even in real time?

[ryanm1058123]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

It was very close, if you saw it live. It could have went either way, and plays like that happen like once a game, at at least one base.

Get off your high horse.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

He was still a full step away at best though, for a MLB that is not bang bang. Maybe for you and I it is if we were the ump, but MLB umps 95% get calls right that are a half a step or less let alone a full step.

People can argue all they want that it was bang bang, but they would be wrong based on what I just explained.

Like I said, did anybody think he was safe even in real time?

LOL. They are wrong because of "what I explained." You didn't explain anything, just stated your opinion.

That is the point though, they didn't. It would have no bearing on the final outcome.

So because it has no bearing on the final outcome means it's okay to reverse? To me, that makes it worse. MLB is essentially saying "let humans decide if it matters but if it doesn't, then we can reverse it."

It sucks for Galarraga but it happened and he seems to have moved on better than most people here on OS. The best thing we can do now is hope the MLB tweaks Instant Replay for the 2011 season.