Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

[Blzer]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Just a guess, but I presume it's slightly different umpiring a rec league, high school or younger, opposed to a Major League Baseball game with professional athletes in front of 30,000 people on the biggest stages. Just sayin.

Division A and preseason NCAA fill-in isn't too low in the books. I know it's not professional ball, but it's no different. The calls are still exactly the same.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

I respect Jim Joyce for sticking to his call and taking all the nasty shots at him like a man.He called what he thought was the correct calls,there are bad calls all the time in baseball.

True, but they normally don't happen on the final out of a perfect game bid. This is the first time that has happened and doubt it will ever happen again.

[inkcil]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

If Selig shouldn't overturn the call in this case, then what does he have that power and authority for? To overturn calls when squirrels run oout on the field?

[biker_jim_uk]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

So because it has no bearing on the final outcome means it's okay to reverse? To me, that makes it worse. MLB is essentially saying "let humans decide if it matters but if it doesn't, then we can reverse it."

To most people this is what makes it ok. It's not changing a game outcome or anything else, all Selig has to do IMO is say it was an official Perfect Game.
Then add an 5th umpire in the backroom with a TV feed and if he sees a call that was wrong he can radio the Ump and get it reversed, takes 20 secs tops and should only be used where there is no doubt, would also work for HRs without the need for the big huddle.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

If Selig shouldn't overturn the call in this case, then what does he have that power and authority for? To overturn calls when squirrels run oout on the field?

His power lies in taking a meaningless popularity contest and changing it to have some influence on the World Series. Oh yeah, and adding more roster spots to that game.

[Jackdog]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

You really think those Detroit fans and all of the players have moved on? And Joyce, you really think he's over it? He was still crying over it today. Reversing the call would have done him a lot, and taken the heat off of him; instead now this will haunt him for the rest of his career. And Galaragga puts on a nice face, what else is he going to do. If he bitches and moans he looks like the bad guy. You can bet he won't forget that for the rest of his career, probably the rest of his life. So no it's not 'pointless', it's still a worthy discussion as to what should be done in the future so that this never happens again.

I've said baseball should've instituted replay years ago. I don't know why baseball purists are so bent up on this issue. And after all the bad calls last postseason...in someways MLB deserves this bad publicity for this circumstance. The saying is, you reap what you sow. As long as Bud has his head up his arse when stuff like this happens, baseball's never going to move forward. That may be too strong, but stuff like this is a microcosm of what plagues baseball. A seeming disconnect with the fans on some levels.

Good point. Selig had a chance to help out both men involved with this. He could have eased the pain that Joyce is obviously in. Once again Bud has made a horrific decision. The title of this thread is wrong. Joyce is far from the worst umpire in baseball. He is actually one of the best. He showed that in the last 48 hours. His humility and emotion over his bad call shows me just how much he loves the game. I'm sure he would have been very happy if Selig would have done the right thing and overruled the call.

For the so called baseball purists out there,as long as the AL has the DH and Bud Selig is the Commissioner the game is far from pure.

[Bellsprout]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

From what I heard, there was a considerable amount of cheers for Joyce tonight in Detroit. Not completely cheers, there were boos, but enough to make Joyce tear up.

If I were a Tigers fan today, I'd be proud to be part of such a classy group. Kudos to Detroit fans.

[slickdtc]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

They shouldn't reverse the call, and here's why.

The only reason they would be reversing this call is to award the Tigers' pitcher a perfect game. But that's just a very cool accomplishment to put on your resume'. It's one pitching performance out of very many. It's cosmetic. It really doesn't matter. And plus, everyone knows he threw a perfect game and it was screwed up by a bad call. This game may be more memorable then if he had actually thrown a perfect game. There have been what, 20 perfect games now. How many times have we had a perfect game broken up by a missed call?

It's the first Imperfect Perfect Game. So do you want to be the first pitcher to have that, or just another in a handful of perfect games? Boring.

[Bamafan3723]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Why should the call be reversed? There are more important calls in the history of baseball that have not been reversed. This one shouldn't either. This will all go away in time.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

Why should the call be reversed? There are more important calls in the history of baseball that have not been reversed. This one shouldn't either. This will all go away in time.

None of those faced these unique circumstances. This play should have ended the game. The next play had no impact on the final outcome. You show me another "important" call in baseball history that meets these criteria.

The best comparable call is the Denkinger call in 85, but that was on the first play of the inning, which changes the whole make up of the inning. He's pitching from the stretch with a runner on instead of pitching from the windup. Pitch calls are different, pressure is different, etc. It would be impossible and unfair to reverse a call and then go back and make them re-create the inning as it would be possibly taking a W away from one team.

In this case, he went through everything he was supposed to go through to achieve the perfecto, but was robbed at the end by an admitted wrong call. The W doesn't change. Two guys have AB's changed (one better and one worse), which is unique, but still gets things right.

In the end, the goal should be to get things right when the opportunity presents itself for this to be done with absolute minimal disturbance, which is the case here. Sure it's not as sweet to miss the celebration, but the bottom line is his name should be in record books.

[CMH]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

The only thing I will say in contrast to the "this was special circumstances" argument is whether or not anyone would want to take up that same reasoning if the ill-fated play happened in the first inning.

I do think people will be talking about it, but I get the feeling that less people would care.

[Blzer]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

They shouldn't reverse the call, and here's why.

The only reason they would be reversing this call is to award the Tigers' pitcher a perfect game. But that's just a very cool accomplishment to put on your resume'. It's one pitching performance out of very many. It's cosmetic. It really doesn't matter. And plus, everyone knows he threw a perfect game and it was screwed up by a bad call. This game may be more memorable then if he had actually thrown a perfect game. There have been what, 20 perfect games now. How many times have we had a perfect game broken up by a missed call?

It's the first Imperfect Perfect Game. So do you want to be the first pitcher to have that, or just another in a handful of perfect games? Boring.

This was exactly one of my reasons as well. This call should not be reversed.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

The only thing I will say in contrast to the "this was special circumstances" argument is whether or not anyone would want to take up that same reasoning if the ill-fated play happened in the first inning.

I do think people will be talking about it, but I get the feeling that less people would care.

I agree. If it happened in the first inning, you can't do it. It impacted everything that happened after that.

If this happens on the first play of the game, you pitch the rest of the game without any of the pressure that comes with a no-hitter. Also, everything after that is different than it would have been. You are now pitching that first inning with a runner on base and pitching out of the stretch. Your pitch selection changes, your attitude changes and you pitch the rest of the game facing hitters in different positions that they would have been in.

But....none of that impacts this situation. This situation is unique. He went through everything that every other perfect game pitcher has gone through. He earned it 100%. He got all 27 hitters out. He went through the pressure that kicks in about the 7th inning when you look at the score board and you see all 0's, the pressure you feel in the dugout when you are sitting all alone and the pressure you feel when you start counting down the number of remaining outs....all of that stuff, he went through and accomplished. Guys in those other situations don't.

Would it suck if you were that guy who had the call blown in the first inning and didn't get yours reversed? Maybe..probably.... But I also think your mindset for the rest of that game was entirely different. Is it fair to that guy, maybe not, but at least it's fair to this guy.

Again IMO, better go give it to him than rob him of it.

What is worse, keeping a guy from getting something he earned or giving something to somebody that didn't earn it. I'll go with the former every time. I'd rather see a bad guy set free than an innocent man be punished, which IMO is what has happened.

[CMH]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

What is worse, keeping a guy from getting something he earned or giving something to somebody that didn't earn it. I'll go with the former every time. I'd rather see a bad guy set free than an innocent man be punished, which IMO is what has happened.

Agreed, though I think many of us can agree that despite the unfortunate circumstances for Galarraga, he will come away with this with less punishment than we think.

Yes, he won't be forever etched in stone as a man that threw a perfect game, but many will always remember to mention his name amongst those that threw a perfect game. If anything, he is now the most famous trivia question.

[55]

Re: Jim Joyce, worst umpire in history.

It's the first Imperfect Perfect Game.

Ever heard of Ernie Shore?