The Decline Of MLB

[SPTO]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Doesn't mean that they aren't using advanced stats in conjunction with scouting now. In the past it was just scouting but most good GM's use a combination of scouts and stats. The amount of advanced stats guys working for teams is much higher now than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

Cashman, Epstein, Friedman, Daniels, Jack Z, Beane, Shapiro, and Hoyer are all sabermetrically inclined GM's.

Oh yeah, i'm not saying it's totally gone but it's no longer the dominant part of a GM's philosophy these days as it was 10 years ago or so. It's more 50/50 in terms of how GMs utilize all aspects of evaluation.

[snepp]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

It may not be the dominant part of a philosophy, but it is certainly much more widespread overall. It's like night and day compared to ten years ago.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

The sequel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnY5g8qZT6I

"I think I'll stick to beer and hotdogs instead of calculators and virginity"

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

There is a limit to which Sabermetrics does ruin the game. There are stats that I flat out never use or try to understand because it's stupid.

However, to dismiss the whole field is utter ignorance. If you cannot take the time to learn what the most basic stats like OBP, SLUG and OPS is, then I'm not sure how you have the patience to sit through a baseball game.

The anti-Sabermetrics people who dismiss it without trying to learn it are just as bad and ignorant as the hardcore sabermetric people who need a stat for everything.

[Speedy]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

The anti-Sabermetrics people who dismiss it without trying to learn it are just as bad and ignorant as the hardcore sabermetric people who need a stat for everything.

It's not only that, OSU but a lot of the Sabermetric stats (especially defensively) are extremely subjective and sometimes contrary according to different people.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

It's not only that, OSU but a lot of the Sabermetric stats (especially defensively) are extremely subjective and sometimes contrary according to different people.

defensive sabermetrics are the dumbest thing on this planet. They are neither accurate nor informative.

I don't know anyone who uses defensive sabermetrics seriously.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

defensive sabermetrics are the dumbest thing on this planet. They are neither accurate nor informative.

I don't know anyone who uses defensive sabermetrics seriously.

Can you tell me how they derive them? Obviously since you've dismissed them as "the dumbest thing" you must have read up on them and made that decision...

[Sandman42]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

defensive sabermetrics are the dumbest thing on this planet. They are neither accurate nor informative.

I don't know anyone who uses defensive sabermetrics seriously.

They're better than using fielding percentage and errors, but yeah, overall most of the defensive stats aren't too reliable. When UZR puts out one thing, while +/- says something completely different for the same player its tough to figure out whats going on. There still needs to be a lot of work done with them. Scouting is still the best way to evaluate defense even if there really is no way to quantify its value.

Going by UZR, Matt Kemp went from being and average CF the past 2 years to an awful one this year. I really don't believe that at age 25 his defense fell off the cliff.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Can you tell me how they derive them? Obviously since you've dismissed them as "the dumbest thing" you must have read up on them and made that decision...

A math formula that shows how many runs a player can save the team with defense.

Do I know the exact formula? Not really. I know it uses things like range, errors and double plays involved in...something along those lines. But when +/- and UZR can contradict each other so much, it's pointless.

You will never have a definitive stat on defense because it's tough to make one. Defense is the very definition of the eye test. You need to see range, see an arm, see how well a player uses a glove. Stats cannot tell you that.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

They're better than using fielding percentage and errors, but yeah, overall most of the defensive stats aren't too reliable. When UZR puts out one thing, while +/- says something completely different for the same player its tough to figure out whats going on. There still needs to be a lot of work done with them. Scouting is still the best way to evaluate defense even if there really is no way to quantify its value.

Going by UZR, Matt Kemp went from being and average CF the past 2 years to an awful one this year. I really don't believe that at age 25 his defense fell off the cliff.

Agreed.

We're just going to have to wait until the pitch f/x measurement types become available for defense.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

defensive sabermetrics are the dumbest thing on this planet. They are neither accurate nor informative.

I don't know anyone who uses defensive sabermetrics seriously.

I think they're ballpark if you take the larger sample size. I read somewhere that 3 years of UZR data is comparable to a year's worth of plate appearances for a hitter.

Even if UZR shoots out some seemingly bizarre numbers once in a while, it's best not to dismiss a stat just because it contradicts your own eyes.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

I think they're ballpark if you take the larger sample size. I read somewhere that 3 years of UZR data is comparable to a year's worth of plate appearances for a hitter.

Even if UZR shoots out some seemingly bizarre numbers once in a while, it's best not to dismiss a stat just because it contradicts your own eyes.

Meh, I just do not trust the stat whatsoever.

Not to say they might not one day get a stat that makes it comparable to pitcher f/x, but I just do not trust it now. Defense is an eye test for me.

[Sportsforever]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Meh, I just do not trust the stat whatsoever.

Not to say they might not one day get a stat that makes it comparable to pitcher f/x, but I just do not trust it now. Defense is an eye test for me.

One thing I think we confuse is defensive skill with defensive performance...

[55]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ4I34zG_aY

[CMH]

Re: The Decline Of MLB

Meh, I just do not trust the stat whatsoever.

Not to say they might not one day get a stat that makes it comparable to pitcher f/x, but I just do not trust it now. Defense is an eye test for me.

I disagree. I think the eye test is worse than any fielding statistic out there.

The eye test has people believing that Derek Jeter is one of the finest defensive short stops in the game.

The eye test lies.

Are advanced defensive statistics the end all? No. But, they at least quantify numbers in comparison to other players in the league. Your eyes just see what they want to see.