Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

[dingleberryfinn]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

gimme hank over alex any day
but i would think infielders would tend to make more money than outfielders, not that i've actually seen any number comparisons among today's starters.
would be interestin', though

[snepp]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

wOBA, like OPS+, doesn't account for position. It also doesn't account for ball park*, which OPS+ does. And most importantly, for this particular comparison, it doesn't account for era.

wRC+ would be the appropriate stat to use if you're a fan of wOBA (which I am), it accounts for both park and era.

Career wRC+
154 - Aaron
149 - Rodriguez



*the Fangraphs version doesn't, the Statcorner version does

[lonewolf371]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

wOBA, like OPS+, doesn't account for position. It also doesn't account for ball park*, which OPS+ does. And most importantly, for this particular comparison, it doesn't account for era.

wRC+ would be the appropriate stat to use if you're a fan of wOBA (which I am), it accounts for both park and era.

Career wRC+
154 - Aaron
149 - Rodriguez



*the Fangraphs version doesn't, the Statcorner version does

Yeah, you're right. Only thing with positional adjustment is sill not accounted for in wRC+. WAR includes league, year, park adjustments, positional adjustments and includes defense.

WAR/year (400+ PA only counted):
6.84 - Rodriguez
6.63 - Aaron

oWAR basically measures the same thing as wRC+ but with positional adjustment:

oWAR/year (400+ PA only counted):
7.02 - Rodriguez
6.08 - Aaron

Harder to play shortstop than outfield, slightly harder to play 3rd base.

[snepp]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

There's no doubt Rodriguez goes down as one of the game's truly elite players, his combination of offensive and defensive ability is pretty rare.

I was trying to leave positional adjustments and fielding out of it though since poopy's insinuation was that Aaron was an inferior hitter because of his supporting cast and park, which is straight up ****ing ridiculous.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

"A-Rod never had any type of that pressure" really?

Biggest contract in the history of Baseball, Playing In new york, Playing the playoffs in New York. The media (huge factor).

Easily one of the most ignorant things I've ever read... Anywhere... In my entire life...

I'm just embarrassed to even be human at this point...

Maybe you're just misinformed here... Because I can't imagine someone being so astonishingly moronic... So let me ask you...

How many death threats has A-Rod received compared to Aaron?

[roadman]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

Easily one of the most ignorant things I've ever read... Anywhere... In my entire life...

I'm just embarrassed to even be human at this point...

Maybe you're just misinformed here... Because I can't imagine someone being so astonishingly moronic... So let me ask you...

How many death threats has A-Rod received compared to Aaron?

This is what I was thinking.

I thought it was one of two things;

1) A bad case of homerism wearing pinstripe glasses

or

2) Needs to study more about baseball history.

I'm hoping it's #2.

[Claymaker52]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

Yes Aaron Rodgers gets the nod over Alex Rodriguez as being THE new A-Rod. Sorry Yankee fans.

[lonewolf371]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

There's no doubt Rodriguez goes down as one of the game's truly elite players, his combination of offensive and defensive ability is pretty rare.

I was trying to leave positional adjustments and fielding out of it though since poopy's insinuation was that Aaron was an inferior hitter because of his supporting cast and park, which is straight up ****ing ridiculous.

Oh yeah well both of our stats would point to Aaron being the better pure hitter. I'm just making the point that A-Rod would still make more money than Aaron because he's played the more difficult position.

Both were obviously great all around, though.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

Aaron was getting death threats every single day and still performed well enough to hit 40 more HR than anybody in baseball history. How is somebody gonna compare playing in NY to getting your life threatened because of your color everyday?

Aaron was the man. It's easy to forget how great of a player he was, not homerun hitter. He was a complete hitter. Almost 4,000 hits, 755 HR, and all time leader in RBI's. From '60 to '68 he would steal like 25 bases a year at a 90% success rate. Had a few seasons were he had 2x as many walks as strikeouts. Solid fielder also.

I would take him over A-Rod. Rodriguez also used steroids and was a horrible teammate. Tipping pitches from SS to his friends in the batters box? Selfish, prima donna, ignorant.

[Kearnzo]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

Aaron was getting death threats every single day and still performed well enough to hit 40 more HR than anybody in baseball history. How is somebody gonna compare playing in NY to getting your life threatened because of your color everyday?

Aaron was the man. It's easy to forget how great of a player he was, not homerun hitter. He was a complete hitter. Almost 4,000 hits, 755 HR, and all time leader in RBI's. From '60 to '68 he would steal like 25 bases a year at a 90% success rate. Had a few seasons were he had 2x as many walks as strikeouts. Solid fielder also.

I would take him over A-Rod. Rodriguez also used steroids and was a horrible teammate. Tipping pitches from SS to his friends in the batters box? Selfish, prima donna, ignorant.

Yeah, because every other elite player is a freakin saint. Crap like that happens in baseball, get over it. And aren't you the guy that was defending Cabrera for everything he did, yet drop the judgment hammer on someone else?

I'm a Sox fan, so I obviously hate A-Rod. And yeah, the steroids taint some of his accomplishments. It's also blatantly obvious that most people would never rank him as high as he should be out of just pure hatred for the guy. Take the personality out, and he is one of the best players in the history of the game.

I do agree, however, that the pressure A-Rod faces in NY is nowhere near what Aaron must have faced. I obviously wasn't around, but i've read enough to know that Aaron faced an altogether different pressure than the standard Yankee hometown booing.

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

This is what I was thinking.

I thought it was one of two things;

1) A bad case of homerism wearing pinstripe glasses

or

2) Needs to study more about baseball history.

I'm hoping it's #2.

Easily one of the most ignorant things I've ever read... Anywhere... In my entire life...

I'm just embarrassed to even be human at this point...

Maybe you're just misinformed here... Because I can't imagine someone being so astonishingly moronic... So let me ask you...

How many death threats has A-Rod received compared to Aaron?

It's two different types of pressure.

Aaron dealt with surge of death threats and the like at the tail end of his career, as before then it's most likely comparable. He didn't deal with them his entire career, and his entire career wasn't the pressure cooker of those Chase seasons. Rodriquez has had to deal with career pressure to attain some mythical status as the greatest or one of the five greatest players to ever play. The level of media scrutiny and its everyday toil of that has to be great when its your life for 17 years. If we take it to the extremes, Aaron's is obviously greater, but stretched over the entirety of their careers, in the broad sense of pressure, it isn't like Rodriquez is some slouch. Different kinds. One to one comparison of death threats to ESPN isn't even an argument.

[roadman]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

It's two different types of pressure.

Aaron dealt with surge of death threats and the like at the tail end of his career, as before then it's most likely comparable. He didn't deal with them his entire career, and his entire career wasn't the pressure cooker of those Chase seasons. Rodriquez has had to deal with career pressure to attain some mythical status as the greatest or one of the five greatest players to ever play. The level of media scrutiny and its everyday toil of that has to be great when its your life for 17 years. If we take it to the extremes, Aaron's is obviously greater, but stretched over the entirety of their careers, in the broad sense of pressure, it isn't like Rodriquez is some slouch. Different kinds. One to one comparison of death threats to ESPN isn't even an argument.

I understand what you are saying and if you think about it, like you said, they played it two totally different era's. It's not just the death threats that Aaron endured at the end of his career. Please consider the years Aaron grew up and played through and all the negativity he endured while playing baseball in that era. This isn't even debatable, either.

And you say A-Rod has to put up with being one of the 5 greatest players of all-time? Wouldn't you say Aaron dealt with the same type of pressure over his career during his era? Isn't that the same type of pressure A-Rod has today?

You can take away the death threats from Aaron and I feel that Aaron had more pressure as a player in his era than A-Rod as a player today.

[ImTellinTim]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

Yes Aaron Rodgers gets the nod over Alex Rodriguez as being THE new A-Rod. Sorry Yankee fans.

Cool story, bro.

OT, I think they're both historically great hitters, and we're really nitpicking trying to determine which one is better. The numbers are incredibly close. You know it's a close battle when the main arguments are about the mental pressures each hitter faced.

[Mr5000]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

he didn't "cheat" for all of them. it was 3 years in his career the Rodriguez took steroids. And plus he has proven that he doesn't need the juice to hit homers as he has topped 50 with the yankees.

I have also met Hank Aaron when i went up to the hall of fame a year ago. he sends off a very arrogant vibe and thinks who the hell he is. Face the facts Hank you were never baseballs greatest player. you were heavily protected in the braves lineup wheather it was by eddie matthews, darrell evans, davey johnson or rico carty and you played in a hitters ballpark.

Doesn't matter how long he did it, he still cheated.

And A-Rod wasn't heavily protected? Yeah, that Ken Griffey Jr was a total scrub.

[roadman]

Re: Does Aaron get the nod over A-Rod?

Cool story, bro.

OT, I think they're both historically great hitters, and we're really nitpicking trying to determine which one is better. The numbers are incredibly close. You know it's a close battle when the main arguments are about the mental pressures each hitter faced.

I see you point, but actually, the mental pressures came from the OP's statement that Aaron must be jealous of A-Rod.