What is all the BS I'm hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY??

[AI_Franchise03]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

It's a retro Yanks logo. You don't recognize the emblem?

[dce1228]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

I guess the red color throws me off. When I saw it I thought it might be the logo from when the yanks were known as the Highlanders, back when Wee Willie Keeler was their best player. That, or I thought it might be something altogether different.

[dce1228]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

I guess the red color throws me off. When I saw it I thought it might be the logo from when the yanks were known as the Highlanders, back when Wee Willie Keeler was their best player. That, or I thought it might be something altogether different.

[dce1228]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

I guess the red color throws me off. When I saw it I thought it might be the logo from when the yanks were known as the Highlanders, back when Wee Willie Keeler was their best player. That, or I thought it might be something altogether different.

[CMH]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
YankeePride_YP said:

I've seen enough of Ichiro and my opinion is that he isn't as good as people make him out to be. He doesn't change the game. All he does is hit for average. Yes, that is a good thing, but that is all. (Keep in mind that I think HIGHLY of walks. SO if you don't walk, I'm not very fond of you. So I may be a bit biased in my opinion here. But, it's not Yankee bias).

I don't think Matsui should win ROY. I just think he will win because of the media attention. Ichiro benefited from media attention. All he had was over 200 hits and a very good batting average. Is that necessarily astronomically better than other rookies? Last time I checked, Sabathia was one of the most impressive pitchers in the AL that very same year.

I know it sounds weird that i'm downplaying average and hits. But, in my opinion there are more important things in the game. I guess, what i'm sayin is that if you are gonn abe the most influential player in baseball than you should be doin more than hitting for average.

Bonds is the most influential player in the game because he does it all. He can steal a base on ya. He can field well. He can hit for power. He walks. He hits for average. He forces pitchers/managers to change their strategy.

I just don't think Ichiro forces all that. He is indeed a fine player. But, not the best player in baseball. He is heavily overrated. And he definitely did not deserve MVP in his rookie year.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's tough to make a case for Ichiro right now since his OBP and average are the lowest since he came to MLB three years ago, but to say all he does is hit for average is a serious mis-statement. Yes, I too believe in the power of the walk. Moreso I believe in the OBP. In Ichiro's case he can hit so many different types of pitches well that working the pitcher for a walk isn't his game, but he still managed an OBP in the .380 range his first two seasons, which is quite good. Actually, it's excellent.

As for being a one-dimensional player? Ichiro is a clinic when out in the field and on the basepaths. He does everything right. He gives the Mariners' every imaginable advantage with his play outside of the batters' box. He isn't simply a hitter who hits for average. And when he goes yard you are almost always guaranteed it's in a situation where the home-run is at it's most valuable.

However, he's struggled so badly the last two months that he can no longer be considered the AL MVP. I would agree with that. If that makes him overrated, sure. I was making the case that in his rookie year he was lots, I mean LOTS, better than Matsui, which made him a more clear choice for ROY, even when he didn't fit the idea of what a rookie should be. No where am I arguing about the 2001 MVP selection.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

ok, I agree with everythin you said there. You basically said what I wanted to say, in a better way.

[CMH]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
YankeePride_YP said:

I've seen enough of Ichiro and my opinion is that he isn't as good as people make him out to be. He doesn't change the game. All he does is hit for average. Yes, that is a good thing, but that is all. (Keep in mind that I think HIGHLY of walks. SO if you don't walk, I'm not very fond of you. So I may be a bit biased in my opinion here. But, it's not Yankee bias).

I don't think Matsui should win ROY. I just think he will win because of the media attention. Ichiro benefited from media attention. All he had was over 200 hits and a very good batting average. Is that necessarily astronomically better than other rookies? Last time I checked, Sabathia was one of the most impressive pitchers in the AL that very same year.

I know it sounds weird that i'm downplaying average and hits. But, in my opinion there are more important things in the game. I guess, what i'm sayin is that if you are gonn abe the most influential player in baseball than you should be doin more than hitting for average.

Bonds is the most influential player in the game because he does it all. He can steal a base on ya. He can field well. He can hit for power. He walks. He hits for average. He forces pitchers/managers to change their strategy.

I just don't think Ichiro forces all that. He is indeed a fine player. But, not the best player in baseball. He is heavily overrated. And he definitely did not deserve MVP in his rookie year.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's tough to make a case for Ichiro right now since his OBP and average are the lowest since he came to MLB three years ago, but to say all he does is hit for average is a serious mis-statement. Yes, I too believe in the power of the walk. Moreso I believe in the OBP. In Ichiro's case he can hit so many different types of pitches well that working the pitcher for a walk isn't his game, but he still managed an OBP in the .380 range his first two seasons, which is quite good. Actually, it's excellent.

As for being a one-dimensional player? Ichiro is a clinic when out in the field and on the basepaths. He does everything right. He gives the Mariners' every imaginable advantage with his play outside of the batters' box. He isn't simply a hitter who hits for average. And when he goes yard you are almost always guaranteed it's in a situation where the home-run is at it's most valuable.

However, he's struggled so badly the last two months that he can no longer be considered the AL MVP. I would agree with that. If that makes him overrated, sure. I was making the case that in his rookie year he was lots, I mean LOTS, better than Matsui, which made him a more clear choice for ROY, even when he didn't fit the idea of what a rookie should be. No where am I arguing about the 2001 MVP selection.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

ok, I agree with everythin you said there. You basically said what I wanted to say, in a better way.

[CMH]

Re: What is all the BS I\'m hearing about Matsui not elligible for ROY?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
dce1228 said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
YankeePride_YP said:

I've seen enough of Ichiro and my opinion is that he isn't as good as people make him out to be. He doesn't change the game. All he does is hit for average. Yes, that is a good thing, but that is all. (Keep in mind that I think HIGHLY of walks. SO if you don't walk, I'm not very fond of you. So I may be a bit biased in my opinion here. But, it's not Yankee bias).

I don't think Matsui should win ROY. I just think he will win because of the media attention. Ichiro benefited from media attention. All he had was over 200 hits and a very good batting average. Is that necessarily astronomically better than other rookies? Last time I checked, Sabathia was one of the most impressive pitchers in the AL that very same year.

I know it sounds weird that i'm downplaying average and hits. But, in my opinion there are more important things in the game. I guess, what i'm sayin is that if you are gonn abe the most influential player in baseball than you should be doin more than hitting for average.

Bonds is the most influential player in the game because he does it all. He can steal a base on ya. He can field well. He can hit for power. He walks. He hits for average. He forces pitchers/managers to change their strategy.

I just don't think Ichiro forces all that. He is indeed a fine player. But, not the best player in baseball. He is heavily overrated. And he definitely did not deserve MVP in his rookie year.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

It's tough to make a case for Ichiro right now since his OBP and average are the lowest since he came to MLB three years ago, but to say all he does is hit for average is a serious mis-statement. Yes, I too believe in the power of the walk. Moreso I believe in the OBP. In Ichiro's case he can hit so many different types of pitches well that working the pitcher for a walk isn't his game, but he still managed an OBP in the .380 range his first two seasons, which is quite good. Actually, it's excellent.

As for being a one-dimensional player? Ichiro is a clinic when out in the field and on the basepaths. He does everything right. He gives the Mariners' every imaginable advantage with his play outside of the batters' box. He isn't simply a hitter who hits for average. And when he goes yard you are almost always guaranteed it's in a situation where the home-run is at it's most valuable.

However, he's struggled so badly the last two months that he can no longer be considered the AL MVP. I would agree with that. If that makes him overrated, sure. I was making the case that in his rookie year he was lots, I mean LOTS, better than Matsui, which made him a more clear choice for ROY, even when he didn't fit the idea of what a rookie should be. No where am I arguing about the 2001 MVP selection.


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

ok, I agree with everythin you said there. You basically said what I wanted to say, in a better way.