Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

**Birdsonbat** · 01-28-2004, 06:09 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

**BigRed** · 01-29-2004, 02:56 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Birdsonbat said:
I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

<hr /></blockquote>

I know Morris makes a ton of money, and I've heard the rumors, but how can you justify removing the best pitcher from that sorry staff? Then if Woody retires, you're left with Jeff Suppan, Chris Carpenter, Danny Haren, Jason Marquis and prospects. Sure you could add an arm, but starting pitchers are way expensive. Even mediocre ones. Besides, would the arm you could acquire be as good as Morris for less money?

**BigRed** · 01-29-2004, 02:56 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Birdsonbat said:
I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

<hr /></blockquote>

I know Morris makes a ton of money, and I've heard the rumors, but how can you justify removing the best pitcher from that sorry staff? Then if Woody retires, you're left with Jeff Suppan, Chris Carpenter, Danny Haren, Jason Marquis and prospects. Sure you could add an arm, but starting pitchers are way expensive. Even mediocre ones. Besides, would the arm you could acquire be as good as Morris for less money?

**BigRed** · 01-29-2004, 02:56 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Birdsonbat said:
I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

<hr /></blockquote>

I know Morris makes a ton of money, and I've heard the rumors, but how can you justify removing the best pitcher from that sorry staff? Then if Woody retires, you're left with Jeff Suppan, Chris Carpenter, Danny Haren, Jason Marquis and prospects. Sure you could add an arm, but starting pitchers are way expensive. Even mediocre ones. Besides, would the arm you could acquire be as good as Morris for less money?

**Birdsonbat** · 01-30-2004, 12:37 AM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BigRed said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Birdsonbat said:
I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

<hr /></blockquote>

I know Morris makes a ton of money, and I've heard the rumors, but how can you justify removing the best pitcher from that sorry staff? Then if Woody retires, you're left with Jeff Suppan, Chris Carpenter, Danny Haren, Jason Marquis and prospects. Sure you could add an arm, but starting pitchers are way expensive. Even mediocre ones. Besides, would the arm you could acquire be as good as Morris for less money?

<hr /></blockquote>

Less money? We'll have to see who is available. Morris is making 12.5 mil this year. How much do you think he'll want if he has a good year in '04?

I'm not saying that I necessarily want Morris to leave, I just can't see him re-signing. It'll be a crap shoot for the '05 rotation. Marquis and Carpenter are only signed for '04 as well (Carp has a club option for '05), I believe. The problem is that Morris will want NY kind of money, and I don't think the Cards will give it to him. It all depends on how he pitches this year. I say if we are out of it by the all-star break, we should trade him. I'd rather see that than the Cards lock him up, adding another giant backloaded contract.

'05 will be the year that makes or breaks this team for a considerable amount of time. There will be a lot of if's and hopefully's...If LaRussa is not re-signed, hopefully the ownership can bring in a coach and pitching coach that can develop young pitchers. Hopefully Wainwright, Hawksworth, Narveson, Parrott, and Haren will be ready for big leagues and to be developed by said coaching staff. Hopefully Ankiel can get his head straight and make his return to the big leagues.

As far as I am concerned, the window for this team to win (W.S.) with its current core of Morris, Woody, Jimmy, Pujols, Rolen, and Renteria has closed. As pessimistic as it sounds, I think it has the possibility of being refreshing if Rolen, Pujols, and Renteria can be joined by two or three young pitchers in time for the new stadium. There will hopefully be a changing of the guard in Stl with the old ways of LaRussa exiting and hopefully a new, youth-minded, coaching staff entering. This may be a pipe dream, but I believe it is what this organization needs.

**Birdsonbat** · 01-30-2004, 12:37 AM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BigRed said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Birdsonbat said:
I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

<hr /></blockquote>

I know Morris makes a ton of money, and I've heard the rumors, but how can you justify removing the best pitcher from that sorry staff? Then if Woody retires, you're left with Jeff Suppan, Chris Carpenter, Danny Haren, Jason Marquis and prospects. Sure you could add an arm, but starting pitchers are way expensive. Even mediocre ones. Besides, would the arm you could acquire be as good as Morris for less money?

<hr /></blockquote>

Less money? We'll have to see who is available. Morris is making 12.5 mil this year. How much do you think he'll want if he has a good year in '04?

I'm not saying that I necessarily want Morris to leave, I just can't see him re-signing. It'll be a crap shoot for the '05 rotation. Marquis and Carpenter are only signed for '04 as well (Carp has a club option for '05), I believe. The problem is that Morris will want NY kind of money, and I don't think the Cards will give it to him. It all depends on how he pitches this year. I say if we are out of it by the all-star break, we should trade him. I'd rather see that than the Cards lock him up, adding another giant backloaded contract.

'05 will be the year that makes or breaks this team for a considerable amount of time. There will be a lot of if's and hopefully's...If LaRussa is not re-signed, hopefully the ownership can bring in a coach and pitching coach that can develop young pitchers. Hopefully Wainwright, Hawksworth, Narveson, Parrott, and Haren will be ready for big leagues and to be developed by said coaching staff. Hopefully Ankiel can get his head straight and make his return to the big leagues.

As far as I am concerned, the window for this team to win (W.S.) with its current core of Morris, Woody, Jimmy, Pujols, Rolen, and Renteria has closed. As pessimistic as it sounds, I think it has the possibility of being refreshing if Rolen, Pujols, and Renteria can be joined by two or three young pitchers in time for the new stadium. There will hopefully be a changing of the guard in Stl with the old ways of LaRussa exiting and hopefully a new, youth-minded, coaching staff entering. This may be a pipe dream, but I believe it is what this organization needs.

**Birdsonbat** · 01-30-2004, 12:37 AM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
BigRed said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Birdsonbat said:
I will bet that Morris will not be a Card next year. So with the subtraction of Tino, Morris, and Woody's salaries next year, there should be some money to work with.

<hr /></blockquote>

I know Morris makes a ton of money, and I've heard the rumors, but how can you justify removing the best pitcher from that sorry staff? Then if Woody retires, you're left with Jeff Suppan, Chris Carpenter, Danny Haren, Jason Marquis and prospects. Sure you could add an arm, but starting pitchers are way expensive. Even mediocre ones. Besides, would the arm you could acquire be as good as Morris for less money?

<hr /></blockquote>

Less money? We'll have to see who is available. Morris is making 12.5 mil this year. How much do you think he'll want if he has a good year in '04?

I'm not saying that I necessarily want Morris to leave, I just can't see him re-signing. It'll be a crap shoot for the '05 rotation. Marquis and Carpenter are only signed for '04 as well (Carp has a club option for '05), I believe. The problem is that Morris will want NY kind of money, and I don't think the Cards will give it to him. It all depends on how he pitches this year. I say if we are out of it by the all-star break, we should trade him. I'd rather see that than the Cards lock him up, adding another giant backloaded contract.

'05 will be the year that makes or breaks this team for a considerable amount of time. There will be a lot of if's and hopefully's...If LaRussa is not re-signed, hopefully the ownership can bring in a coach and pitching coach that can develop young pitchers. Hopefully Wainwright, Hawksworth, Narveson, Parrott, and Haren will be ready for big leagues and to be developed by said coaching staff. Hopefully Ankiel can get his head straight and make his return to the big leagues.

As far as I am concerned, the window for this team to win (W.S.) with its current core of Morris, Woody, Jimmy, Pujols, Rolen, and Renteria has closed. As pessimistic as it sounds, I think it has the possibility of being refreshing if Rolen, Pujols, and Renteria can be joined by two or three young pitchers in time for the new stadium. There will hopefully be a changing of the guard in Stl with the old ways of LaRussa exiting and hopefully a new, youth-minded, coaching staff entering. This may be a pipe dream, but I believe it is what this organization needs.

**Mr_October** · 01-30-2004, 08:32 AM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

I think the only way LaRussa will retire is if the team totally bombs a season and their below .500. He's always said that would retire when he doesn't feel like he can get the job done. And the only way were going to get LaRussa out of town is if he wants to leave. Or unless Jockety gets fired. We all know Walt, Tony, and Dave Duncan are joined at the hip pretty much. I don't really want them to go. I like what they have done for the team. They basically brought back Baseball to St. Louis after the early 90's ended. Look at their records in the early 90's(The Joe Tore era.) then and look at them now. No mattter how much people want to admit it, the team has improved vastly since LaRussa came to town.

**Mr_October** · 01-30-2004, 08:32 AM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

I think the only way LaRussa will retire is if the team totally bombs a season and their below .500. He's always said that would retire when he doesn't feel like he can get the job done. And the only way were going to get LaRussa out of town is if he wants to leave. Or unless Jockety gets fired. We all know Walt, Tony, and Dave Duncan are joined at the hip pretty much. I don't really want them to go. I like what they have done for the team. They basically brought back Baseball to St. Louis after the early 90's ended. Look at their records in the early 90's(The Joe Tore era.) then and look at them now. No mattter how much people want to admit it, the team has improved vastly since LaRussa came to town.

**Mr_October** · 01-30-2004, 08:32 AM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

I think the only way LaRussa will retire is if the team totally bombs a season and their below .500. He's always said that would retire when he doesn't feel like he can get the job done. And the only way were going to get LaRussa out of town is if he wants to leave. Or unless Jockety gets fired. We all know Walt, Tony, and Dave Duncan are joined at the hip pretty much. I don't really want them to go. I like what they have done for the team. They basically brought back Baseball to St. Louis after the early 90's ended. Look at their records in the early 90's(The Joe Tore era.) then and look at them now. No mattter how much people want to admit it, the team has improved vastly since LaRussa came to town.

**BigRed** · 01-30-2004, 04:44 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

Exactly.

I can't understand why so many people want, and have wanted, LaRussa gone for a long time. In the time span since he and Duncan have been with the team ('96?), the team is more successful than any other Cardinals team over the same time period.

I don't want to see LaRussa go. However, if it is deemed he is to leave after the season (and for the record, LaRussa has been signing only 1 year contracts for about the past 4 or 5 years), then they better have someone good to replace him. Because if they screw up and run off a Hall of Fame manager to hire Lloyd McClendon or Terry Francona or Jerry Manuel, then all heck will break loose on that team.

Although, I'm sure all the old asses want Whitey Herzog back, even though most of his teams stunk and he quit in the middle of a season (granted, ownership had a lot to do with that).

Anyway, to sum up, I like LaRussa.

**BigRed** · 01-30-2004, 04:44 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

Exactly.

I can't understand why so many people want, and have wanted, LaRussa gone for a long time. In the time span since he and Duncan have been with the team ('96?), the team is more successful than any other Cardinals team over the same time period.

I don't want to see LaRussa go. However, if it is deemed he is to leave after the season (and for the record, LaRussa has been signing only 1 year contracts for about the past 4 or 5 years), then they better have someone good to replace him. Because if they screw up and run off a Hall of Fame manager to hire Lloyd McClendon or Terry Francona or Jerry Manuel, then all heck will break loose on that team.

Although, I'm sure all the old asses want Whitey Herzog back, even though most of his teams stunk and he quit in the middle of a season (granted, ownership had a lot to do with that).

Anyway, to sum up, I like LaRussa.

**BigRed** · 01-30-2004, 04:44 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

Exactly.

I can't understand why so many people want, and have wanted, LaRussa gone for a long time. In the time span since he and Duncan have been with the team ('96?), the team is more successful than any other Cardinals team over the same time period.

I don't want to see LaRussa go. However, if it is deemed he is to leave after the season (and for the record, LaRussa has been signing only 1 year contracts for about the past 4 or 5 years), then they better have someone good to replace him. Because if they screw up and run off a Hall of Fame manager to hire Lloyd McClendon or Terry Francona or Jerry Manuel, then all heck will break loose on that team.

Although, I'm sure all the old asses want Whitey Herzog back, even though most of his teams stunk and he quit in the middle of a season (granted, ownership had a lot to do with that).

Anyway, to sum up, I like LaRussa.

**SPTO** · 01-30-2004, 04:57 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

I hate to just jump in but i'm curious as i'm a baseball fan first and foremost and this is baffling. So you'd take the LaRussa era over that of Whitey Herzog?

Personally I think LaRussa has done a great job with the tools he's been given but at the same time maybe there needs to be a shakeup and life's not fair in that way but while he shouldn't be let go, it's probably the best thing to do for the betterment of the franchise.

**SPTO** · 01-30-2004, 04:57 PM

Re: Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

I hate to just jump in but i'm curious as i'm a baseball fan first and foremost and this is baffling. So you'd take the LaRussa era over that of Whitey Herzog?

Personally I think LaRussa has done a great job with the tools he's been given but at the same time maybe there needs to be a shakeup and life's not fair in that way but while he shouldn't be let go, it's probably the best thing to do for the betterment of the franchise.

Pujols Greedy? Could it really be!?

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