MLB Off-Topic

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In that case I'd like to point back to this thread kehlis started, now that it is several years old. I'm curious what other rules people want changed today, especially since Manfred has stepped in.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-one-rule.html

Looks like ryan36 got what he wished for, and I guess just by happenstance I had the exact same arguments six years ago as I have now (regarding the IBB).

I'll have to think long and hard about what rules I would like to see changed today, compared to my initial list in that thread.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

To you. I find the rule completely valid.

I'm with Blzer...while I'm not going to lose sleep over it, this is an asinine change and completely unnecessary. I do not like the move more toward amateur rules across the board...this is the pros, as such it should be different. I have literally never once sat at a base ball game and thought "man, I wish they'd just let this guy go to first instead of making the pitcher issue four balls."

It's fine that you think the rule is valid...that doesn't mean that those who disagree are wrong or that baseball has made the right decision here.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Can they just leave **** alone? Is that possible? Every sport tinkers with something every year, and it's just annoying.

The game is fine, its not baseball's fault, alot of people have low attention spans these days.

Sent from my HTCD200LVWPP using Tapatalk

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's fine that you think the rule is valid...that doesn't mean that those who disagree are wrong or that baseball has made the right decision here.

Okay.. and it doesn't mean you're right and baseball made the wrong decision.

I'm not even really arguing that the decision is right or wrong. I'm arguing that the people making a big deal about it are complaining about change just to complain about change.

Okay, I said I was done and now I really am. I've said my peace.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think we have a contender for longest post of all time, jeez.

As for the IBB, I don't really care. Both sides have made fine arguments. It's a rare enough event these days (unless you follow the Nationals) that streamlining it doesn't really reduce inaction or increase pace of play noticeably. I agree that not having to throw 4 pitches does reduce inaction, but again this is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway to borrow another metaphor. In other words, it doesn't do much.

I am against gratuitous rule changes just for the sake of giving the committees something to do and debate, but this doesn't really get my blood boiling. I also think all these strawmen and very poor comparisons being erected (getting rid of strikes, getting rid of HR trots) are just silly. This IBB walk rule will affect a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the baseball that you watch.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think we have a contender for longest post of all time, jeez.

As for the IBB, I don't really care. Both sides have made fine arguments. It's a rare enough event these days (unless you follow the Nationals) that streamlining it doesn't really reduce inaction or increase pace of play noticeably. I agree that not having to throw 4 pitches does reduce inaction, but again this is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway to borrow another metaphor. In other words, it doesn't do much.

I am against gratuitous rule changes just for the sake of giving the committees something to do and debate, but this doesn't really get my blood boiling. I also think all these strawmen and very poor comparisons being erected (getting rid of strikes, getting rid of HR trots) are just silly. This IBB walk rule will affect a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the baseball that you watch.

Exactly...the change doesn't bother me per se as much as the REASON for it. It is not needed, baseball doesn't need to be "sped" up, and the pace of the game is just fine.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

People laugh at people who bring up slippery slopes in life, and yet, look around you. Mocked incessantly for each complaint about supposedly minor, unimportant things. Being told "what's the harm?" and "you're exaggerating" and "it's not that serious" or "it's not that bad."

Then you wake up one day and you realize that what you used to love is completely different, a farce and a clown show.

I don't want the same **** to happen to baseball. Period. The very crux of the sport is that theres no time involved. So once you start addressing "problems" related to something that isn't originally intended to be part of any consideration anyway, you end up undermining the purpose of the sport. It sets precedent for further stupidity. Look at football. One change here, one change there, some extra emphasis here, some controversy there. And now within a few years time you have a sport littered with pussified, pretentious, overexposed, unwatchable garbage where nobody knows what a catch is, nobody knows what a legal hit is, every player on both sides whining for flags after each play like they're in the NBA, and countless other developments that have turned such a beloved weekly experience into an insufferable and frankly uninteresting chore.

[ryan36]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Looks like ryan36 got what he wished for, and I guess just by happenstance I had the exact same arguments six years ago as I have now (regarding the IBB).

Ironically, now that they've done this, I'm not sure I like it...years later. I'm at least less committed. I don't care much.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

People laugh at people who bring up slippery slopes in life, and yet, look around you. Mocked incessantly for each complaint about supposedly minor, unimportant things. Being told "what's the harm?" and "you're exaggerating" and "it's not that serious" or "it's not that bad."

Then you wake up one day and you realize that what you used to love is completely different, a farce and a clown show.

I don't want the same **** to happen to baseball. Period. The very crux of the sport is that theres no time involved. So once you start addressing "problems" related to something that isn't originally intended to be part of any consideration anyway, you end up undermining the purpose of the sport. It sets precedent for further stupidity. Look at football. One change here, one change there, some extra emphasis here, some controversy there. And now within a few years time you have a sport littered with pussified, pretentious, overexposed, unwatchable garbage where nobody knows what a catch is, nobody knows what a legal hit is, every player on both sides whining for flags after each play like they're in the NBA, and countless other developments that have turned such a beloved weekly experience into an insufferable and frankly uninteresting chore.

I think the reason some get eye roll treatment about complaints is because they literally complain about everything and see every change as a sport-breaking scourge and pure evil. It's very tiring and really weakens the occasions when they do make a good point about something that may be buried in a rant of some kind.


That aside I can agree completely with you that pro football has basically been ruined. I have never been less interested in it than I am right now. Part of that is rule changes, part is hypocrisy by the NFL office, part is conduct of players, part is the inherent physical dangers of the game, part is cheating and the Patriots, part is catering to the casual fan and DFS, part is the officiating......I'll stop there before we veer too far out of baseball.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Average length of time of MLB games since 2006:

2006: 2:48:11
2007: 2:51:13
2008: 2:50:38
2009: 2:51:47
2010: 2:50:46
2011: 2:51:57
2012: 2:55:58
2013: 2:51:58
2014: 3:02:21
2015: 2:56:14
2016: 3:00:26

League-wide K% since 2008:

2008: 17.5% (set an all-time record)
2009: 18.0% (set an all-time record)
2010: 18.5% (set an all-time record)
2011: 18.6% (set an all-time record)
2012: 19.8% (set an all-time record)
2013: 19.9% (set an all-time record)
2014: 20.4% (set an all-time record)
2015: 20.4% (set an all-time record)
2016: 21.1% (set an all-time record)

You can see the problem here. Pitchers wasting time on the mound is making games longer than ever and more and more hitters are walking back to the dugout without making contact. So there's basically now less action in the game than there's ever been.

I don't know about you guys, but watching Dallas Keuchel punch a guy out because he can throw a bunch of sinkers below the knees isn't that fun. Or Joc Pederson calling timeout every other pitch. Manfred isn't waging a war on the essence of baseball; he's rolling back the abnormal by trying to make the game as action-packed as it was 10 years ago.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

EDIT: Ugh, this ended up being typed kind of long again. Feel free to skip by as needed.

Spoiler

Hey, if he wants umpires to enforce a higher strike zone, I'm all for that. The armpits? Ehh, that's a little extreme, but raise the bottom all you want. I don't quite see what that has to do with my concern on intentional walks, but it's cool.

Not pointed at you at all, but I don't appreciate when people here are saying posters like myself are traditionalists who cry foul every time there is a potential rules change of any sort. That's not true at all. In fact, if you know me, you know I'm for things that aren't:

- Knee-jerk reactions to incidents that happened when they could have happened at any time prior to the event (helmets on coaches, more erected protective screens, rules around second base and home plate, etc.)

- Going against what is legally bound with the game itself (this goes more toward the intentional walk matter)

- Items put in place for no other valid reason than to try and make something else happen, such as making it "more exciting."

Do you think I have raised an issue with the hustle and bustle between innings, mound visits, and pitches? Absolutely not, make it happen! I applaud that it's actually being enforced with clocks and fines.

Though keep in mind, I have fallen in love with the sport that it was, and frankly my ideal game lasts longer than three hours. I'm not saying shorter games aren't liked less at all, but there are other things that can reduce the time. And yes, the trotting the bases idea is a perfect example because of the legal action of touching all four bases. Those who continue to say that is not valid are incorrect, sorry. Do I want that? Hell no... but TheMatrix spoke about the slippery slope: omit one legal need, why not omit them all?

How about not throwing the ball around the bases between at-bats when retiring a batter? Yes, one may argue that they are doing it while another batter is coming up to the plate... but if they mandated that the next batter get in the box within 15 seconds after the last batter puts the ball in play, strikes out or walks, then we wouldn't have an issue anymore, would we? Case in point, if I recorded a previously played game and I want to see the next batter, I can hit the "30 second fast-forward" button after the previous batter came up, and I would likely not have missed a pitch. If there are 70 or so batters per game, that's 35 minutes of play taken between batters right there. Trim down 20 of those minutes, yeah? Sounds good.

Can't step off the mound unless you throw it to a bag. Can't shake off more than one pitch per sequence. Keep one foot inside the box at all times (note: all times). One defensive conference per inning, whether it's from the pitching coach or the catcher. No phone conversations before a replay. Heck, lose a replay and lose a defensive conference for three consecutive outs. Cut out a commercial from each half-inning and place station identification between batters.

If these things were changed, you wouldn't see me gripe one bit. It reduces time, increases action, and does not alter the necessary legal actions within the game itself.

Am I being overaggressive? Hell yes, I am. But so is Robert Manfred. I think the real problem I have is that it all feels like hubris to me, like he is doing it for the sake of doing it, because a previous commissioner was there for so long and now he has to put his own stink on the sport.

The bigger issue, that which I guarantee, is I don't think this is helping attract more audience members. Instead, it's pissing some of the current ones off.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

In regards to the ibb, I've never liked it, I don't even think it should be legal, I never understood why you could walk a batter intentionally.

From a strategy standpoint it makes all the sense in the world of course, who wanted to face Bryce Harper when he was in god mode early in the season? Not many. I can't even remember the statline, had something like 4 intentional walks in a game, that's just stupid.

As far as getting rid of the process of throwing 4 straight balls, I don't like it, because it just doesn't need changed, and it's just a random choice in my eyes. Many other things could be done to speed up the game.

But I hate rule changes, if it's not broke then don't fix it.

How about when a reliever is summoned from the bullpen, he doesn't get warmup pitches before he faces a batter? Isn't he warm already? That's one of many things they could do, but just randomly picked the ibb, and it makes no sense in the grand scheme of things at all.




Sent from my HTCD200LVWPP using Tapatalk

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Wanna speed up the game? Get rid of replay. Wanna speed it up some more? Introduce the pitch clock like minor league baseball. Wanna speed it up some more? Stop granting multiple timeouts to hitters? Wanna speed it up more? Limit catcher visits to the mound to one per inning. Wanna speed it up more? Cut down on the time in between innings.

So many things could be done to speed up the game and force action.

[Money99]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Wanna speed up the game? Get rid of replay. Wanna speed it up some more? Introduce the pitch clock like minor league baseball. Wanna speed it up some more? Stop granting multiple timeouts to hitters? Wanna speed it up more? Limit catcher visits to the mound to one per inning. Wanna speed it up more? Cut down on the time in between innings.

So many things could be done to speed up the game and force action.

Agreed.

I love baseball and hockey and both leagues seem to suffer from making dumb changes while the obvious ones are ignored.

If it's about making the games more action-packed (which I agree), then raise the bottom of the strike zone and start handing out balls and strikes for slow working pitchers and hitters.
I'd also love to see a limit on mound visits (and a time limit for each visit) and less warm-up pitches for relievers. What have they been doing in the bullpen? 5 warm-up pitches and let's go.

And watching guys constantly check their batting gloves is starting to annoy me more and more every day.
It's an OCD thing. Should we allow Pedroia to lock and unlock the clubhouse doorknob 30x between each pitch too?

I understand the MLB's hesitation to posting shot-clocks around the park. As it was stated, baseball is unique in that there isn't a time clock.
But I don't see why the umps can't start enforcing the rulebook and simply signal for a pitch while a batter is lollygagging or a ball to a pitcher who's doing the same.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Going back to the strike zone discussion, if I may...

They're moving the strike zone back to the top of the knees so getting rid of the change in 1996 that was primarily due to the roid era.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/strike_zone.jsp

1996 - The Strike Zone is expanded on the lower end, moving from the top of the knees to the bottom of the knees.

1988 - "The Strike Zone is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the top of the knees. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball."

1969 - "The Strike Zone is that space over home plate which is between the batter's armpits and the top of his knees when he assumes a natural stance. The umpire shall determine the Strike Zone according to the batter's usual stance when he swings at a pitch."

@ SPTO: What zone were you referring to when asking to go "back to the 80s"?

Also...if I'm interpreting this correctly, doesn't this mean the zone is from the top of the shoulders to the top of the knees now? As it is now, it seems the zone is kindly in the midpoint between the letters and the belt now, with how umps call it and ESPN/FOX display it.