MLB Off-Topic

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Then increase the foul lines! 180 degrees of play, please! Oh, and if a batter whiffs three times in an at-bat, they get a free hit off a tee.

My problem is they are just fixing **** that isn't broken. Never have I ever heard a single issue complain about intentional walks, except that they do it. Honestly, I think they should get rid of them. You want to walk the guy? Earn it. Throw it out of the zone and dare him to not swing. Take it out of the stat books as well. I like that challenge.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Then increase the foul lines! 180 degrees of play, please! Oh, and if a batter whiffs three times in an at-bat, they get a free hit off a tee.

My problem is they are just fixing **** that isn't broken. Never have I ever heard a single issue complain about intentional walks, except that they do it. Honestly, I think they should get rid of them. You want to walk the guy? Earn it. Throw it out of the zone and dare him to not swing. Take it out of the stat books as well. I like that challenge.

Is it really that big of a deal? I feel like people are blowing this way out of proportion like they did with the home plate rule (which hardly anyone complains about anymore), or the slide rule into 2B (which hardly anyone will complain about this time next year).

The game is moving more toward amateur rules, which is fine with me. It's more straightforward and just gets to the action. There's no change in the competitive balance by letting a guy go to 1st without having four 75 mph pitches thrown 4 feet outside the zone. Will we miss the once in a season overthrow that allows a run to score? Sure; but I like the change.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Let me begin by saying I know I'm being unreasonably outlandish with this. I'm well aware.

Is it really that big of a deal? I feel like people are blowing this way out of proportion like they did with the home plate rule (which hardly anyone complains about anymore), or the slide rule into 2B (which hardly anyone will complain about this time next year).

I have massive issues with both of these, actually. Not the sliding rules at 2B, but the neighborhood play that they used to have.

The game is moving more toward amateur rules, which is fine with me. It's more straightforward and just gets to the action. There's no change in the competitive balance by letting a guy go to 1st without having four 75 mph pitches thrown 4 feet outside the zone. Will we miss the once in a season overthrow that allows a run to score? Sure; but I like the change.

You're right. As I go back to my previous statement, let's get the batter-runner into the dugout immediately after a home run. Want to trade an out to move a runner over? Let's get rid of the sacrifice bunt, just have them tell the umpire (what an uninteresting play to begin with!). Heck, while we're at it let's take out the QB kneel in the NFL, and when the shot clock expires with the winning team in possession let's just call an NBA game then and there.

Pitchers should have to throw pitches as a legal delivery. How do these count in the stat line? Do they even get charged with a walk anymore? This upsets me because it didn't need to be fixed. And your statement that people stop talking about other things does not mean that is not still affixed on my mind. I have massive issues with a lot of the changes the game has made lately, including many of the replay rules. I don't let things go very easily, and as someone who had to watch a baseball player get served 120 IBB's in a single season, I think I have somewhat of a right to make a claim on the matter.

As I said, a bolder move would be to ditch the IBB completely. I think that would make for interesting action, strategies and decisions. That, or if it's automatic, the batter should be able to accept or decline it.

The real question is... if they want to put it into effect, why not just start it tomorrow? If it really won't change anything but give us all of the action we desire, let's just put it in place effective immediately. Shouldn't bother anyone, right?

I'm really for everyone being held accountable for their actions. Those are four balls that could, for all we know, be thrown way away, could have a runner steal or a batter squeeze, could find its way over the plate and be hit, could injure/tire a pitcher, or they might have a change of heart mid-at-bat. The point is that these things can still happen, so we should let them. Plain and simple. This just wasn't a broken part of the game to begin with. I almost feel like it's all just hubris from Manfred, changing **** for the sake of changing it. There are significantly bigger pace of play issues in the game.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

My problem is they are just fixing **** that isn't broken.

Falling right in line with 2016 society. The game doesn't need to be sped up. Stop tinkering with ****, especially with **** that doesn't need tinkering. If you want a faster game, go watch the NBA or some ****. Have fun with those final 5 minutes taking 20 minutes. One of the best parts of baseball is that each game has its own pace and there are so many factors involved in setting that pace. Each game is unique. Some teams play quicker games. Some pitchers take a longer time to pitch than others. It's all part of team identity and player personalities. If I want to watch cookie cutter garbage, I'll watch other sports. And yes, just to clarify, I still think the home plate rule is stupid as hell and so is the slide rule, causing more controversy and nonsense than it ever did otherwise. Nobody who thinks baseball is too slow is going to suddenly fall in love with it because the "pace of play" is "faster." Not sure why spacing isn't working on posts right now. I spaced this entire post out and it's all screwed up. OS is jacked at the moment.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Again, coming from the commissioner.. it's not solely about speeding the game up. It's about limiting the amount of game with little to no action.

Sure they can shorten the amount of commercials, but that won't happen because it costs money. They will probably look at limiting mound visits next, but the intentional walk rule is a very small adjustment that will take away a very rare exciting play. I think it's a worthy change.

You're right. As I go back to my previous statement, let's get the batter-runner into the dugout immediately after a home run. Want to trade an out to move a runner over? Let's get rid of the sacrifice bunt, just have them tell the umpire (what an uninteresting play to begin with!). Heck, while we're at it let's take out the QB kneel in the NFL, and when the shot clock expires with the winning team in possession let's just call an NBA game then and there.

Pitchers should have to throw pitches as a legal delivery. How do these count in the stat line? Do they even get charged with a walk anymore? This upsets me because it didn't need to be fixed. And your statement that people stop talking about other things does not mean that is not still affixed on my mind. I have massive issues with a lot of the changes the game has made lately, including many of the replay rules. I don't let things go very easily, and as someone who had to watch a baseball player get served 120 IBB's in a single season, I think I have somewhat of a right to make a claim on the matter.

As I said, a bolder move would be to ditch the IBB completely. I think that would make for interesting action, strategies and decisions. That, or if it's automatic, the batter should be able to accept or decline it.

The real question is... if they want to put it into effect, why not just start it tomorrow? If it really won't change anything but give us all of the action we desire, let's just put it in place effective immediately. Shouldn't bother anyone, right?

I'm really for everyone being held accountable for their actions. Those are four balls that could, for all we know, be thrown way away, could have a runner steal or a batter squeeze, could find its way over the plate and be hit, could injure/tire a pitcher, or they might have a change of heart mid-at-bat. The point is that these things can still happen, so we should let them. Plain and simple. This just wasn't a broken part of the game to begin with. I almost feel like it's all just hubris from Manfred, changing **** for the sake of changing it. There are significantly bigger pace of play issues in the game.

Hyperbole really does nothing to advance the conversation. No pitcher is going to be tired or injured throwing a 75% fastball. How often are these pitches thrown away? Once or twice per season? Changing this doesn't mean the game is going to get rid of the sacrifice bunt (a play that actually takes talent) or have guys no longer run the bases. There is no talent in an intentional walk. And you can ditch it all you want, it will still happen. Hell, Lester does this already because he can't throw IBB pitches.

What does a pitch count in a stat line have to do with anything? Balks aren't legal pitches most of the time, either, but they still count as a stat. Neither is a pickoff. You're just grasping at straws to complain.

What does watching someone get 120 IBBs in a season have to do with your right for anything? Were you on the field for those? You have a right to nothing when it comes to the game.

You want to talk about a microcosm of 2016 society?? That's it right there. Talking about "you have a right" to something you have no direct influence on. Hey, I watched those IBBs, too. Where is my right to say I don't want to see that? Are you more deserving than me for saying what can change and what can't?

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You keep seeing people explain why it may not be a terrible idea, but no one can give a good reason as to why intentional walks need to be changed, and no one has one, that's why people are upset. They needed to change something, closed their eyes and threw a dart, and ended up with intentional walks. Like you said, they're so infrequent that they don't even affect every single game, and yet THIS is a problem of inaction? Not guys adjusting their batting gloves and helmet 16 degrees after the pitcher steps off the mound without even throwing a pitch? It's ridiculous. The home run example is perfect, the only reason we run around the bases is because that's what we've been taught. If we're eliminating inaction, why watch a guy jog? Once it lands in the seats, walk to the dugout. It's a slippery slope for no reason at all.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You keep seeing people explain why it may not be a terrible idea, but no one can give a good reason as to why intentional walks need to be changed, and no one has one, that's why people are upset. They needed to change something, closed their eyes and threw a dart, and ended up with intentional walks. Like you said, they're so infrequent that they don't even affect every single game, and yet THIS is a problem of inaction? Not guys adjusting their batting gloves and helmet 16 degrees after the pitcher steps off the mound without even throwing a pitch? It's ridiculous. The home run example is perfect, the only reason we run around the bases is because that's what we've been taught. If we're eliminating inaction, why watch a guy jog? Once it lands in the seats, walk to the dugout. It's a slippery slope for no reason at all.

They're changing it because it causes a lull in the game. It's the same reason the NFL moved the XP back. It's a play that uses almost no skill and is boring. Obviously it's not a rule designed to keep fans like us involved. Manfred is working to engage more casual fans.

And please stop comparing this to a HR. You kill your argument when you bring up ridiculous ideas. They're obviously not going to remove guys running the based on a HR and it adds nothing to the conversation.

I agree with the adjusting batting gloves and grabbing the crotch after every pitch, and they've already set up rules for that; who knows if they're actually enforcing them.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

What is the difference? Just because you've deemed it important for guys to run the bases? Clearly, other people thought it important for pitches to be thrown before bases are taken, I don't understand how you can say its ridiculous when its the same thing. How is pointing to first base going to engage casual fans? Are those people not watching because they don't like watching intentional walks? THAT is a ridiculous argument.

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

If you want more action, remove strikes.

First pitch in the zone is either an automatic out or you better make contact.

Solved baseball.

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I remember when baseball was a game, now its a business. And the only thing that matters is money.

Baseball was never meant to be a high paced action packed sport that was completed in 2 hours.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

They're changing it because it causes a lull in the game. It's the same reason the NFL moved the XP back. It's a play that uses almost no skill and is boring. Obviously it's not a rule designed to keep fans like us involved. Manfred is working to engage more casual fans.

And please stop comparing this to a HR. You kill your argument when you bring up ridiculous ideas. They're obviously not going to remove guys running the based on a HR and it adds nothing to the conversation.

As to your extra point example, this is not the same thing. The equivalent to that would be automatically adding a point for free (or them opting for a two-point conversion), which I would have been totally against. Them moving it back was perfect.

I think my reasons for being upset aren't being understood very well. DHYF stated one of them perfectly: it didn't need to be changed in the first place, and I am amazed that somebody at the table actually called out "kill intentional walks!" The second reason is that they are removing a legal delivery from the game.

Case in point, the home run is a perfect legitimate example because there are repercussions to not running the bases on a home run. You will be called out on an appeal for not legally touching all four bases. The QB kneel was also a perfect example too, though I think most people would actually be fine with them removing that at the end of the game as well. I wouldn't if the rules state the clock must run down to 0:00.

Now, if we removed it, I would be very unhappy. Why? Because there is the possibility that somebody might miss touching a base, because it is a legal procedure in the sport. How often does this happen? Much less frequently than intentional walk pitches causing possible issues. So yes, the reason I'm making this case so is because I'm saying this too would be a bad idea, but not for reasons that you are stating. I am simply stating that they are taking away a legal procedure in the game.

On the other side of legality concerns is the sacrifice bunt. Couldn't it just be as easy for baseball to just have a batter say, "Yeah, I'm going to surrender my at-bat. Give us an out, and move that runner over to second base." It would, but the issue here is that too many other things can happen, like missing the bunt, wanting to butcher instead, runner stealing, yada-yada. I'm not speaking about the game's pace of play or action.

And yes, my question about statistics is a valid one. I'd like to know whether this goes on a pitcher's pitch count or not, or whether this will increase their WHIP, K/BB, etc. Now that they are not legally thrown and instead are just assigned (which I assume is by the manager), there is a very real possibility that because this is out of the pitcher's control that he will not be charged with these walks. Or, if this goes onto his pitch count total and he reaches 100 pitches for the game, does the manager remember when four of them were not actually thrown by him? Or if this doesn't go into his pitch count, then this creates a mismatch in total number of pitches thrown versus total number of batters faced, meaning the P/PA number will get thrown off too. This is a valid concern.

Now, speaking onto your "lull" argument: I don't think it's a lull at all. The reason why I stated I am a perfect candidate for arguing for them is because I have been victimized of seeing my team be served intentional walks more than most around here, and I can attest to the fact that it is not only indeed not boring, but it allows me to interact with the situation more. I don't know if you were ever at AT&T Park when the opposing team intentionally walked Bonds, but we created a great scene out of it. The boos literally punched your chest. Hanging up the rubber chickens was of entertainment for us, as we got to boo the pitcher and catcher for following up in the act more so than the manager. We got to let this run for about 30 seconds as the pitcher and catcher would do their thing. This also might get a pitcher out of their funk for the next batter: perfect! Shouldn't have done it then, right?

I think the action is just splendid for it, and of course it can lead to other things that arise as well. You're sitting here stating, "What are the odds a wild pitch happens?" Dude, if it can happen once and on the biggest stage, then that is already one too many times to mention.

Let me also add one more bit of information: I am really big on this "legal delivery" thing because I don't want this to trickle down to other leagues that still do intentional walks. I coach softball, and the last thing I want me or the other team to do is just say, "Put them on base." As far as ineffectiveness goes for a situation, I would love for so many things to go wrong in this situation, not just wild pitches but also throwing strikes and inattentiveness to the base runners for possible steal situations. All of this happens much more there than it does in the MLB, and if they adopt it as a result of this, I am certainly going to let my powers at be go to the board and protest it, because nowhere does it create a lull in the game. It becomes an ultimate chicken move if we are allowed to just point them to go to first base, and I don't want anybody to have such a luxury. I hate that high school ball has it now (at least some high schools, if not all), and I will hate this one as well. Hate. Hate. Hate.

http://www.omaha.com/creighton/unint...7c2649950.html

https://youtu.be/spDYK0IoUQM?t=2m6s

https://youtu.be/lqlu9Zfnhtk?t=3m7s

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-euNcCMy0CA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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(BELOW: My friend used to do this in little league when being walked, if in the event they wanted to change their mind and throw him a strike on a full count, because he wanted to bat instead.)

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(BELOW: This is important because it shows that the pitcher must actually succumb to the walk instead of just letting the manager choose for them. I wonder what Bumgarner would do if Bochy just put on a batter while he was pitching. He might actually murder him if so.)

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The point isn't the probability of something happening, the point is that something could be happening... on every level of the game, on every part of the world (speaking of which, if the NPB or other foreign baseball leagues don't adopt this, then what do they do for next year's WBC?). Sorry, but you are not going to convince me that not enough happens on this legal delivery of a pitch.

Let me also go back to the other proposal I made in another post. You want to get rid of the intentional walk, or the lull in the action? Then get rid of it. Make it illegal. Make it like a balk. Intentionally roll a ball to the catcher, or throw it somewhere outside of his catcher's box? Charge a ball, and advance the runner one base automatically. Force the pitcher to throw the "unintentional intentional walk." Make it more of a challenge for them to say that they have to legally deliver these pitches. I would be totally for that. It keeps the strategy in play, it makes the pitcher legally deliver the pitches, and more would have to go awry. You have to remember that while the intentional walk is, by all means, currently just another version of a walk, it is acknowledged in the stat book when they do it. I say let's completely get rid of the statistic and the action (ha, how ironic that I just said "action").

Think about why this is a valid suggestion. Besides the lull. who gets intentionally walked? Good hitters, hitters before pitchers. The dude who creates crazy excitement and action for the game is being put on base, whether it is automatic or through four pitches. So eliminate it then! After all, you can't intentionally throw a ball out of bounds in football for getting sacked. Heck, in baseball if you have a deep part of the ballpark, you can't intentionally throw a ball out of play to avoid the inside the park home run. Maybe intentional walks should penalize the team more, I don't know. But I might agree that the intentional walk itself is a bad idea for the sport to be its own separate entity compared to normal walks. The only thing that currently keeps them the same are the four legal pitches that are delivered, and they are trying to remove that because of the "lack of action."

You are not going to convince me that the "lull" in the action is worth more than the legal delivery that must be thrown for his pitch, though. This wild pitch fiasco doesn't happen only once a year (and as you see above, sometimes it works out better and sometimes worse, sometimes the ball even gets hit, and sometimes people change their minds about walking them). The intentional walk really only happens maybe once a game on average, and it is no more of a lull than a catcher visiting his pitcher (nor is it more frequent), which by the way currently does not have a limit per inning or game. Plus, the IBB gets to provide crowd interaction with the road team for doing it. We love to boo, not because of the lull but because of the "chicken" action of doing it. But like I said, there are other things to address.

And again, you ask why I am up in arms? Why shouldn't I be? This didn't need to be changed, and this does (yes, does) raise the concern about if they remove this legal action from the game, then what else could conceivably be removed... such as the touching of all four bases for a home run! I get where you're saying, "It's completely different, it's not a lull," but I'm not talking about that part of it. And yes, it is a lull to some, especially when the road team does it.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Holy cow @ that post, Blzr...I counted 79 scrolls to go thru it all.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You've got way too much time on your hands. I'm done with the argument. The rule has been decided. I think people are complaining to hear themselves talk.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You've got way too much time on your hands. I'm done with the argument. The rule has been decided. I think people are complaining to hear themselves talk.

Not close to true (on both counts: time on my hands and loving to hear myself talk). Though I do feel like message boards create good debate talk. I hope that's how you felt this was, and not as a chore for you.

For the record, the majority of my posts that end up being long are originally planned to be a few minutes long of typing, but they don't stop because I simply have more to say.

It's a bad and unnecessarily seeded rule, plain and simple.

[Jr.]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's a bad and unnecessarily seeded rule, plain and simple.

To you. I find the rule completely valid.