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  • TheMatrix31
    RF
    • Jul 2002
    • 52897

    #6406
    Re: MLB Off-Topic

    Originally posted by jvalverde88
    But what is it good for?











    I'm so sorry guys, I just had to.

    Did you know that that was the original name of Tolstoy's War and Peace?

    Comment

    • AC
      Win the East
      • Sep 2010
      • 14951

      #6407
      Re: MLB Off-Topic

      Originally posted by redsox4evur
      Ok so because now we have this one stat that takes all those things into accounts, makes them worthless. Gotcha.
      This makes no sense.


      The stat takes the stats that you feel are important and weighs them objectively. It shows Trout as superior. Is there any reason why your weighting of doubles, homers, etc is more valid than wRC+'s?
      "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

      Comment

      • Majingir
        Moderator
        • Apr 2005
        • 47433

        #6408
        Re: MLB Off-Topic

        lol, on Jimmy Fallon, at the end of the show, he goes in the audience to give people high fives and stuff. On a recent show, he missed one guy sitting in one of the aisle seats.

        The reason it was worth mentioning here, is cause that guy was Joe Biagini of the Jays. His own teammates started making fun of him for that.

        So today, Fallon invited Biagini back onto the show so they could get it right:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUzY0-fbDjc

        lol ya, "you know it's offseason when...."
        Last edited by Majingir; 11-19-2016, 02:16 PM.

        Comment

        • Money99
          Hall Of Fame
          • Sep 2002
          • 12694

          #6409
          Re: MLB Off-Topic

          Originally posted by TheMatrix31
          I agree. It's pretty absurd. We don't know what a WAR is, but we certainly know what other things are.
          Agreed. I'm in my 40's so I'm still an .AVG, RBI, HR guy. I like OPS and SLG as well.
          WAR seems to be very subjective so that's why I don't put much stock into it.

          I thought I had read an article that stated .OPS was pretty bang-on when looking at wins and losses per team, while WAR was not.
          If you added up everyone's WAR, it almost never equated to a teams WIN total by years end.

          *This could be me simply not fully understanding WAR though. Which is probably why I like looking at old school stats instead of all these fancy metrics.
          I like stats and I've read too many books that most would probably find incredibly boring ("The Only Rule is it has to Work" is a fantastic read. When I explained the premise to my wife she nearly fell asleep, haha).
          But as much as I like books on the subject, I still always go back to the 'Big 3' as the standard for judging a players hitting ability.

          Comment

          • AC
            Win the East
            • Sep 2010
            • 14951

            #6410
            Re: MLB Off-Topic

            WAR has a very strong relationship to team win total. I can post something later when I'm not running out the house ... or you can take my word for it

            Lol it's not perfect correlation but yeah it is a good indicator.
            "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

            Comment

            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046

              #6411
              Re: MLB Off-Topic

              Originally posted by Majingir
              lol, on Jimmy Fallon, at the end of the show, he goes in the audience to give people high fives and stuff. On a recent show, he missed one guy sitting in one of the aisle seats.

              The reason it was worth mentioning here, is cause that guy was Joe Biagini of the Jays. His own teammates started making fun of him for that.

              So today, Fallon invited Biagini back onto the show so they could get it right:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUzY0-fbDjc

              lol ya, "you know it's offseason when...."
              Biagini is a true character of the game. If he plays in a US market people would be hearing about some of his goofiness for sure.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

              Comment

              • CMH
                Making you famous
                • Oct 2002
                • 26203

                #6412
                Re: MLB Off-Topic

                The thing with advanced statistics based on formulas is every team has their own.

                And because they don't share their data, sites like br and fangraphs have their own data to determine these formulas.

                It's like one company feeling as if a 25% off coupon is valuable to get people into the store while another feels it's better to do a buy one get one 50% off. Different theories create different ideas on which statistics hold more value.

                But the important thing is that whatever br rates Trout in WAR it is weighing all players the same way. Fangraphs has a different formula but it's comparing Trout to everyone using the same formula.

                It doesn't matter that the formulas are different. It just matters where the player stands among his peers. And writers get to pick which formula they prefer based on their preferences which is why we have so many voters.

                If we didn't want opinion to be a part of the voting, one guy would make the decision.
                "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                Comment

                • Perfect Zero
                  1B, OF
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 4012

                  #6413
                  Re: MLB Off-Topic

                  I propose that we create a new "Brian Kenny WARrior of the Year Award" so those that fawn over WAR can have their award, and those who watch the game can have theirs. Everybody wins...
                  Rangers - Cowboys - Aggies - Stars - Mavericks

                  Comment

                  • ubernoob
                    ****
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 15522

                    #6414
                    Re: MLB Off-Topic

                    Or make a separate award for people that think counting stats are important.
                    bad

                    Comment

                    • Perfect Zero
                      1B, OF
                      • Jun 2005
                      • 4012

                      #6415
                      Re: MLB Off-Topic

                      Originally posted by ubernoob
                      Or make a separate award for people that think counting stats are important.
                      Stats are important. They've been part of the game for over a hundred years, and will be for hundreds more. The problem is that there is a good number of people that think WAR is the be all end all, when SABRmatricisns can't even come up with one number for WAR. A home run is a home run. A strikeout is a strike out. There are many ways to come up with "WAR" and nobody really wants to standardize it.

                      I really have no problem with people using advanced statistics, but to base an opinion award on one stat is absurd.
                      Rangers - Cowboys - Aggies - Stars - Mavericks

                      Comment

                      • DieHardYankee26
                        BING BONG
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 10178

                        #6416
                        Re: MLB Off-Topic

                        Originally posted by Perfect Zero
                        Stats are important. They've been part of the game for over a hundred years, and will be for hundreds more. The problem is that there is a good number of people that think WAR is the be all end all, when SABRmatricisns can't even come up with one number for WAR. A home run is a home run. A strikeout is a strike out. There are many ways to come up with "WAR" and nobody really wants to standardize it.

                        I really have no problem with people using advanced statistics, but to base an opinion award on one stat is absurd.
                        Is it absurd to base an opinion award on a stat that takes into account all of the stats that you would account for otherwise?
                        Originally posted by G Perico
                        If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
                        I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
                        In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
                        The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

                        Comment

                        • Perfect Zero
                          1B, OF
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 4012

                          #6417
                          Re: MLB Off-Topic

                          Originally posted by DieHardYankee26
                          Is it absurd to base an opinion award on a stat that takes into account all of the stats that you would account for otherwise?
                          I don't understand your question. This is an opinion award. If it was to be based solely on WAR then it would be the WAR Champion Award. There is more to most valuable player than one stat that has no real world value. I think WAR should be used in concert with more traditional stats and the eyeball test.

                          It's getting to the point where if the player who doesn't have the highest WAR looses, then there is a riot and vote shaming. The guy who voted for Adrian Beltre got drilled, but the fact of the matter is that the BBWAA asked for his opinion and gave it. It's not like Beltre is Soup Can Larry; he is a great player. It's getting to the point where one advanced statistic is dominating the game, and I think we are being shortsighted in this.

                          EDIT: For the record, my top thee would have been Trout, Altuve, and Betts in that order.
                          Last edited by Perfect Zero; 11-19-2016, 06:29 PM.
                          Rangers - Cowboys - Aggies - Stars - Mavericks

                          Comment

                          • CMH
                            Making you famous
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 26203

                            #6418
                            Re: MLB Off-Topic

                            Originally posted by Perfect Zero
                            I don't understand your question. This is an opinion award. If it was to be based solely on WAR then it would be the WAR Champion Award. There is more to most valuable player than one stat that has no real world value. I think WAR should be used in concert with more traditional stats and the eyeball test.

                            It's getting to the point where if the player who doesn't have the highest WAR looses, then there is a riot and vote shaming. The guy who voted for Adrian Beltre got drilled, but the fact of the matter is that the BBWAA asked for his opinion and gave it. It's not like Beltre is Soup Can Larry; he is a great player. It's getting to the point where one advanced statistic is dominating the game, and I think we are being shortsighted in this.

                            EDIT: For the record, my top thee would have been Trout, Altuve, and Betts in that order.
                            He's saying WAR takes into account all of the counting stats you love and spits out a number that ranks overall value.

                            If your argument is there's more to the game than one stat, then WAR is, ironically, the perfect single stat to display that.
                            "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                            "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

                            Comment

                            • ubernoob
                              ****
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 15522

                              #6419
                              Re: MLB Off-Topic

                              WAR is far from the be all end all, but it is the most reliable current way to judge players.

                              Is there a difference between a 4.7 and a 4.5? Meh, the numbers (especially defensive) are fungible to a point where players close to each other can be argued. So a 4.7 and 4.5 could be argued between but a 7.0 and a 3.5 are in different leagues.

                              It's not "oh trout had a higher WAR but lost" in those years, it was "oh trout was by far the best player in baseball and lost" those years he did.

                              WAR was part of the supporting evidence, not the argument.
                              bad

                              Comment

                              • AC
                                Win the East
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 14951

                                #6420
                                Re: MLB Off-Topic

                                Originally posted by Perfect Zero
                                and those who watch the game can have theirs.
                                I find it hilarious when people think that analyst-types don't actually watch baseball. Two of my friends work for teams in an analytical-type capacity that you deride. I promise you they watched more baseball than you could imagine this summer. They scout prospects, they watch their teams, they study targets, and they watch for fun. One literally built a program that, long story short, includes hundreds of hours of nothing but video. They are obsessive.

                                Whether your way of enjoying the game is correct at the end of the day is completely irrelevant. It is your way. No one insults you for it. So why do you choose to chide those who simply think differently about the same game, putting them down, acting as if your way is vastly superior and that they must not even watch the sport?
                                Last edited by AC; 11-19-2016, 11:20 PM.
                                "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

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