Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

[AC]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

He isn't alone, but the 5 guys that I mentioned are. I don't see how you can dispute that.

What are you expecting though? Encarnacion has gone through wrist and hamstring injuries. Bautista's had wrist, back and hip injuries. Reyes destroyed his ankle. Lawrie has never played in more than 125 games. Rasmus has had one healthy season as Jay. Lind has a chronic back. Morrow is diabetic. This team isn't built to be durable. It's an aging, injury prone team. Sure, you can debate how they'll be when they're healthy, but the fact is they aren't likely to be healthy.

[BlueJayPower]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

What are you expecting though? Encarnacion has gone through wrist and hamstring injuries. Bautista's had wrist, back and hip injuries. Reyes destroyed his ankle. Lawrie has never played in more than 125 games. Rasmus has had one healthy season as Jay. Lind has a chronic back. Morrow is diabetic. This team isn't built to be durable. It's an aging, injury prone team. Sure, you can debate how they'll be when they're healthy, but the fact is they aren't likely to be healthy.

I understand and that's a fair point. But the other guy argued that the Jays offense isn't even the best in the division "when healthy" and said there are no stats that can back it up. He also implied that their linuep isn't even in the top 5 in the majors. I argued against THOSE points and your claim that durability is a "skill". And the reason for the caps is because I don't have italics on my phone and I'm trying to emphasize certain words. I only used them sparingly.

[DrJones]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

The last few pages of this thread were really mediocre.

[AC]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

The last few pages of this thread were really mediocre.

You wound me, DrJones. I thought we had something special.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

I'm starting to believe Baltimore has some staying power, An average rotation, seems to be getting better. Chris Tillman is slowly becoming ace-like, and looking at that rotation now, they can keep the Orioles in games when October rolls around, and that lineup is scary as hell, especially if this Joseph kid keeps rolling, Wieters will be an afterthought. Baltimore is a dangerous sleeper.

Then it gets mediocre real quickly, I'm bias but I think the Yankees are gonna scratch and claw to stay in the Wildcard hunt, despite dropping four in a row. Pineda is back, Tanaka returns soon, the lineup is garbage still, but I know they are gonna catch fire at some point, I hope. Maybe I'm delusional.

Blue Jays are done, injuries have been a big blow, but did anyone really believe in that rotation, Buerhle's regression was predictable, the rotation is and has been meh minus Stroman.

[wwharton]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

I understand and that's a fair point. But the other guy argued that the Jays offense isn't even the best in the division "when healthy" and said there are no stats that can back it up. He also implied that their linuep isn't even in the top 5 in the majors. I argued against THOSE points and your claim that durability is a "skill". And the reason for the caps is because I don't have italics on my phone and I'm trying to emphasize certain words. I only used them sparingly.

I'm happy this back and forth is over but kind of sad to see him go. Seems like if he wasn't so condescending there could be a good discussion.

Anyway, only replying to this post bc that is definitely not what I was saying, lol. My point was that the "if everyone is healthy" proclamation doesn't even make sense. The O's were used as an example (bc I know of their injury issues intimately) but many teams have injury issues and stats can't adjust for them bc of how many people play through injuries that effect them as well. Overall, if everyone on every team was 100% healthy, the entire AL East would be one of the better divisions in the MLB this year.

I'm starting to believe Baltimore has some staying power, An average rotation, seems to be getting better. Chris Tillman is slowly becoming ace-like, and looking at that rotation now, they can keep the Orioles in games when October rolls around, and that lineup is scary as hell, especially if this Joseph kid keeps rolling, Wieters will be an afterthought. Baltimore is a dangerous sleeper.

Then it gets mediocre real quickly, I'm bias but I think the Yankees are gonna scratch and claw to stay in the Wildcard hunt, despite dropping four in a row. Pineda is back, Tanaka returns soon, the lineup is garbage still, but I know they are gonna catch fire at some point, I hope. Maybe I'm delusional.

Blue Jays are done, injuries have been a big blow, but did anyone really believe in that rotation, Buerhle's regression was predictable, the rotation is and has been meh minus Stroman.

I think they're legit at this point. The schedule gets easier, the bats are finally coming together (instead of taking turns being hot and cold) and the starting rotation has been consistent for a while now. The bullpen is pretty scary as well. I don't trust them enough to get through Oakland or Detroit, but if some magic happens there, I could see them pulling a WS upset.

As for the division, I agree with you about the damn yankees. Kills me but they aren't going away easily. I think the Jays are going to keep fighting too, to make it interesting. I thought the Rays had a great story forming too until they traded Price. All in all, I think the Yanks or Jays are going to have to snag a WC spot for the division to not be considered mediocre this year.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-o...dom-variation/

[wwharton]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-o...dom-variation/

Good read. As a Baltimorian, I don't think you'll find too many O's fans (that really follow baseball) that would push back on the idea that 2012 came with A LOT of luck. After a decade and half of horrible baseball, we just didn't care, lol.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

I'm happy this back and forth is over but kind of sad to see him go. Seems like if he wasn't so condescending there could be a good discussion.

Anyway, only replying to this post bc that is definitely not what I was saying, lol. My point was that the "if everyone is healthy" proclamation doesn't even make sense. The O's were used as an example (bc I know of their injury issues intimately) but many teams have injury issues and stats can't adjust for them bc of how many people play through injuries that effect them as well. Overall, if everyone on every team was 100% healthy, the entire AL East would be one of the better divisions in the MLB this year.



I think they're legit at this point. The schedule gets easier, the bats are finally coming together (instead of taking turns being hot and cold) and the starting rotation has been consistent for a while now. The bullpen is pretty scary as well. I don't trust them enough to get through Oakland or Detroit, but if some magic happens there, I could see them pulling a WS upset.

As for the division, I agree with you about the damn yankees. Kills me but they aren't going away easily. I think the Jays are going to keep fighting too, to make it interesting. I thought the Rays had a great story forming too until they traded Price. All in all, I think the Yanks or Jays are going to have to snag a WC spot for the division to not be considered mediocre this year.

I'm with you, the Rays are sneakily staying under the radar, there's more then enough time for them to make their move. I was very critical of the Price trade, but now I'm ok with it, Cobb is a lot better then I thought, that rotation is pretty good, and Moore comes back next year, All they did was shed payroll. Odorizzi has come on, and Archer is real underrated, they're fine.

So who is this Joseph guy, is this who Wieters was supposed to be, or is he just playing above his head, and due for major regression?

Thinking ahead the AL East May be, Hell, I'll make a prediction, will be the most dangerous division in baseball next year top to bottom. Orioles are here for real now, the Yankees will make some big moves in the offseason, same with Boston, they are retooling not rebuilding, and they are gonna make a big offseason splash, Blue Jays should be in it, and the Rays will be a lot better, it's gonna be a gauntlet next year.

[wwharton]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

I'm with you, the Rays are sneakily staying under the radar, there's more then enough time for them to make their move. I was very critical of the Price trade, but now I'm ok with it, Cobb is a lot better then I thought, that rotation is pretty good, and Moore comes back next year, All they did was shed payroll. Odorizzi has come on, and Archer is real underrated, they're fine.

So who is this Joseph guy, is this who Wieters was supposed to be, or is he just playing above his head, and due for major regression?

Thinking ahead the AL East May be, Hell, I'll make a prediction, will be the most dangerous division in baseball next year top to bottom. Orioles are here for real now, the Yankees will make some big moves in the offseason, same with Boston, they are retooling not rebuilding, and they are gonna make a big offseason splash, Blue Jays should be in it, and the Rays will be a lot better, it's gonna be a gauntlet next year.

My only problem with the Price trade is the timing. He's got another year under contract if I'm not mistaken. They could've seen how far this wave would take them and then unload him in the offseason.

Joseph has always been considered a good prospect. He was known for his bat so it was kind of surprising he'd start off slow with the hitting but be leading the league in throw outs and doing such a great job behind the plate. His power is real, but his batting average is too. He's probably got potential to be a .250 hitter with 20 hrs... not shabby but not Weiters.

As disappointing as Weiters has been offensively (and only disappointing bc he's not Mike Piazza... he's still be solid) he's been a gold glove catcher, always among the best at throwing out runners and has been a huge part in turning the pitching staff around. I'm not sure how Joseph fills his shoes in all of those areas long term. It is an interesting question though, bc he'll be coming off a serious injury and looking for a nice pay day.

[BunnyHardaway]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

My only problem with the Price trade is the timing. He's got another year under contract if I'm not mistaken. They could've seen how far this wave would take them and then unload him in the offseason.

Joseph has always been considered a good prospect. He was known for his bat so it was kind of surprising he'd start off slow with the hitting but be leading the league in throw outs and doing such a great job behind the plate. His power is real, but his batting average is too. He's probably got potential to be a .250 hitter with 20 hrs... not shabby but not Weiters.

As disappointing as Weiters has been offensively (and only disappointing bc he's not Mike Piazza... he's still be solid) he's been a gold glove catcher, always among the best at throwing out runners and has been a huge part in turning the pitching staff around. I'm not sure how Joseph fills his shoes in all of those areas long term. It is an interesting question though, bc he'll be coming off a serious injury and looking for a nice pay day.

They seem to be pretty impressed with his game calling from what I've read, and the pitching has been awesome since he's been playing regularly.

[wwharton]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

Serious question...

The O's have the 2nd best record in the majors and are 2 games behind the leaders (Angels). The Yankees are still very much in the wild card hunt, while the Jays are more of a stretch but not done just yet.

Is it fair to still say the AL East is "mediocre" this year?

[Wfhilliam]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

constituted is more mediocre.
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[BunnyHardaway]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

Serious question...

The O's have the 2nd best record in the majors and are 2 games behind the leaders (Angels). The Yankees are still very much in the wild card hunt, while the Jays are more of a stretch but not done just yet.

Is it fair to still say the AL East is "mediocre" this year?

I think people are now used to 4 teams in the division having winning records, so anything less is considered mediocre. It's a normal, good division as opposed to a ridiculously good one.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Is the AL East really "mediocre"?

Good read. As a Baltimorian, I don't think you'll find too many O's fans (that really follow baseball) that would push back on the idea that 2012 came with A LOT of luck. After a decade and half of horrible baseball, we just didn't care, lol.

This year's St. Louis Cardinals are somewhat similar to the 2012 Orioles. I don't think run differential means everything though, especially when you get blown out 3-4 times and your team's strength is pitching. When your long relievers come in when you are down 5-6 runs and they give up 5-6 more runs...that doesn't really represent the core of your pitching staff. Cardinals have taken some bad blow outs this year (Baltimore and Cubs blew us out a few times).

Cards have been great in 1 run games this year as well, but we also have a pretty good bullpen and lead the league in shutouts! So of course teams like this will have their fair share of 1 run wins. A 3-2 or 2-1 victory also is not the same as winning 9-8.

Also higher scoring teams usually have higher greater run differentials (see 2011 and 2012 Cards), but that doesn't always equate to a higher winning percentage. If you have good pitching then you can manage and have a better chance to get some "lucky" wins even if your offense is below average.