2015 All Star Break Thread

**Sportsforever** · 07-13-2015, 09:42 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear

Great Derby. Congrats to the players on making it compelling and having a record-setting performance with plenty of intrigue. The worst session was 8 HRs--that's unheard of.

Still think the timer has got to go...

Why no timer?

**TripleCrown9** · 07-13-2015, 09:43 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

And because I'm a sucker, I will be watching this softball game.

**Jr.** · 07-13-2015, 09:43 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Originally posted by Blzer

First of all, I appreciate the discussion we're having. I love to get many different insights and philosophies.

Secondly, you're right, I mistook what I tell my softball players with that point (difference in tilt, as ideally your bat plane wants to match the ball's plane). But even still, meeting it at the bottom of your swing still isn't bad, that way if you get under it you will still backspin it. Bryant's issue is his plane is going more upward than should be, hence the top spin. That's very, very easy to determine when somebody top-spins it. This is why I do not like his swing. No other real reason, I haven't seen him enough. However, this was glaring from the get-go.

I think this is where we disagree. It might end up looking like that because the route is compact before contact and extended after, but this defeats the "knob to the ball" method if you're implying a swing's direction should have a detour rather than going directly to the ball.

I made this gif for one of my players in showing her some certain things, most specifically an inside-out swing, but Duffy is able to hit a ball to the opposite field on the ground and on a line because of his swing path. I don't watch Bryant every day, but I watch Belt every day, and he nearly physically can't do that because of his swing.

Also, there's a difference between what people want to happen and what actually happens. A hitting coach and I were talking forever about different points of the swing, and I was referencing extension and when the wrists should roll (as you hit a ball up the middle, there should be a point where your swing is long and the barrel is pointing right at the pitcher). He was saying wrists should not roll yet and you should muscle it through. Little did I discover later we both had the same agreement on how the swing should be, but if you're training somebody to stay inside the ball, you ask that they try and keep their wrists from rolling as long as possible, for effect only.

Agreed, I love discussing the mechanics of the swing and pitching.

I also agree with leading with the knob. In this gif, Duffy does make contact deep, which is why those balls to the opposite field are ground balls or line drives, at best. Bryant has some of the best opposite field power in the game. You can't create lift nearly as well when you make contact that deep, unless you're just under the ball. Bryant hits opposite field HRs because his barrel is on it's upward path even when he's making contact deeper in his barrel path.

It does cause him to hook and top spin balls when he's out front, so he does have to work harder to stay back (which I think is why he struggled tonight.. his dad was throwing really slow and inside). But I think his path is much more optimal for driving the ball than what that gif of Duffy is showing.

Just different ideas on swings. I'm not a fan to beating the ball into the ground. I want my hitters to create lift, and backspin as a result of matching the ball's plane.

**Chip Douglass** · 07-13-2015, 09:44 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

First home run derby I've watched in years and I really enjoyed it.

**TripleCrown9** · 07-13-2015, 09:48 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Jenny Finch is like a foot taller than Josh Hutcherson lol.

**WaitTilNextYear** · 07-13-2015, 09:48 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Originally posted by Sportsforever

Why no timer?

I don't like how it penalizes guys who hit majestic shots, which to me is the entire point of the event is to hit 'em high and hit 'em far.

I also don't like how the timer is an artificial ending when maybe a guy has a 30 HR round in him. There will never be enough time for that again with this new timer. Think Josh Hamilton, Bobby Abreu, etc...

I'm also not too fond of the 425-foot bonus round thing because it seems a little too tacky although that can at least be sold as incentivizing distance (which is a good thing).

Finally, I think the timer makes the guys rush a little too much and might be too much wear and tear on them for an exhibition event. Hate to see a guy get hurt because he was swinging against a clock.

As I posted earlier on, I think there are other mechanisms that can be used to keep the event shorter and keep guys from taking too many pitches.

**Chip Douglass** · 07-13-2015, 09:51 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Vis-a-vis Bryant's swing mechanics, I'm not a hitting expert or anything, but wouldn't you want Bryant to have steepness in his swing to get the ball in the air because the power is so special?

Bryant's not a speedy contact hitter or anything. He needs to put the ball in the air to make the skillset work.

**Blzer** · 07-13-2015, 09:52 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Originally posted by Jr.

Just different ideas on swings. I'm not a fan to beating the ball into the ground. I want my hitters to create lift, and backspin as a result of matching the ball's plane.

Just wanted to comment on this part specifically. I never once mentioned beating balls into the ground haha. Pujols, Bonds, etc. at their best is ideal. Hit line drives, and a lot of them with backspin as well. Bryant's line drives will all have topspin, I guess that's the issue I have. Again, having watched Belt for like four or five years (then again with a few softball players I have run across), I'm kind of unnerved with that swing type.

Originally posted by Chip Douglass

Vis-a-vis Bryant's swing mechanics, I'm not a hitting expert or anything, but wouldn't you want Bryant to have steepness in his swing to get the ball in the air because the power is so special?

Bryant's not a speedy contact hitter or anything. He needs to put the ball in the air to make the skillset work.

Certainly, but there are other methods of doing so. And contrary to popular belief, uppercutting a ball will result in a lot of ground balls as well when you swing over it (because the bat passed the ball in its plane, if that makes sense).

Bad example of her timing because this was on a changeup (though I did specifically make this one a gif for that reason), but here's an example of one of my players who has an uppercut swing, and the ground ball result as well. Her dad was the other "hitting coach" I was talking about before.

To assist with that, so far this summer she has 20 ground outs and 9 air outs. That seems opposite of what a player should do with an uppercut swing, but the bitter truth is the ones that she is underneath are most often missed or fouled back. Yet another reason why ball and bat plane should be near identical.

**Agatorfan** · 07-13-2015, 09:58 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Adnan Virk needs to chill. It's a celebrity softball game, not game 7 of the ALCS

**Agatorfan** · 07-13-2015, 10:00 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Lol urban is in the game. People on Twitter are saying hope he blows out his knee

**Blzer** · 07-13-2015, 10:01 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Wasn't Miles Teller the college baseball player in Project X?

**Jr.** · 07-13-2015, 10:08 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Originally posted by Blzer

Just wanted to comment on this part specifically. I never once mentioned beating balls into the ground haha. Pujols, Bonds, etc. at their best is ideal. Hit line drives, and a lot of them with backspin as well. Bryant's line drives will all have topspin, I guess that's the issue I have. Again, having watched Belt for like four or five years (then again with a few softball players I have run across), I'm kind of unnerved with that swing type.

But this just isn't true. If all of Bryant's line drives had top spin, he wouldn't hit nearly as many HRs. I will agree that his timing has to be more precise than others, but I don't think it's possible for him to have a truly level bat path because he's so tall.

I'm not sure if you saw the videos I posted a couple of posts ago (I added them in late so you may have missed them), but Pujols doesn't hit the ball deep into his swing. He catches it out front when his bat path has started to go upward. That's how he creates lift and he still gets backspin.

Originally posted by Blzer

Bad example of her timing because this was on a changeup (though I did specifically make this one a gif for that reason), but here's an example of one of my players who has an uppercut swing, and the ground ball result as well. Her dad was the other "hitting coach" I was talking about before.

To assist with that, so far this summer she has 20 ground outs and 9 air outs. That seems opposite of what a player should do with an uppercut swing, but the bitter truth is the ones that she is underneath are most often missed or fouled back. Yet another reason why ball and bat plane should be near identical.

You mentioned it, but that ground ball has very little to do with her swing plane, and a lot to do with her timing. Making contact that far out in front will result in a pulled foul ball or a ground out, no matter what your swing plane looks like. If her timing was better and she caught that where her barrel is just in front of the plate instead of in front of her front foot, she probably drives that ball well.

Fast pitch softball is very different, though, because the ball is coming on an upward plane. I've never taught a softball swing, so I'm not even sure how to approach that.

**mkharsh33** · 07-13-2015, 10:20 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

LOVE the new HR Derby format... This coming from someone who had nearly given up on it. Got tired of whatching guys just stand there taking pitches all night.

Baseball had a special night this evening in Cincy - everything lined up beautifully.

Yeah, I get the clock issue with regard to moon balls, but such is life. My fear is wearing these guys down who participated - so that's something to keep an eye on. If they got in more swings, I can honestly say I do NOT think it's good for the event.

MLB still has a better all-star game than NHL, NBA and NFL - and tonight just upped it even more.

**Majingir** · 07-13-2015, 10:21 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

Really liked HRD format this year. It made the entire event entertaining from top to bottom. The "worst" player hit 8HRs, better than many guys hit with the other format. One of my(if not the) fave HRD I've watched. And just topped off with that great ending having the hometown player winning the derby,not cause he got lucky,or a guy had a bad round,everyone who won their rounds really earned it big time.

Contest ended like 20-30 mins early, so maybe next year,have longer clocks? 4 mins in round 1 like this year,but round 2 is 4 mins and 30 seconds,and round 3 is 5 mins? Not really much else should be changed from this format, cause it really made the entire event entertaining. No boring period with guys not hitting HRs and/or taking lots of pitches.

**Jr.** · 07-13-2015, 10:22 PM

Re: 2015 All Star Break Thread

I think Mabster stated it, but I really hope they go split-screen so they can track the ball flight and keep the pitches coming in the future.

2015 All Star Break Thread

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