Steroids and HOF votes?

[UALKOEBS]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Bonds was a hall of famer before all of this, McGwire was almost out of the league with his near .200 batting average before he is reported doing steriods. Bonds yes, McGwire no.... But if you let McGwire in, Pete Rose MUST be brought back to baseball. What Pete did hurt himself, not the game. What Big Mac did was hurt the game, and himself. Even before all of this I thought Pete should be in, and what he did was not bad. He broke the rules, yes. If anybody says McGwire didnt thats bull, baseball didnt have the rule, but America did, STERIODS were illegal, Gambling is not.

I couldn't agree with you more! I am so sick of hearing that steriods were not illegal in baseball at the time, blah,blah,blah! Murder is not written in the MLB rule book either morons but I am pretty sure that murder is illegal in the freaking WORLD that we live in, just like steroids were/are illegal in the U.S. I hear radio hosts like vanearl wright, what a joke he is! All he keeps saying is that they werent illegal in baseball at the time! Well ******* they were illegal in the united states so that in turn makes them illegal in baseball Dip ****z! Niether belong in the HOF in my opinion, but how do you stop there or even start there? Sosa, palmerio, schilling etc.. I think it is too huge of a list and to much speculation even in obvious cases such as mac and bonds. Tough call, I am sure some that used will get in and some that did will not. Bonds was a very nice player and a sure allstar before he went to sf and juiced but HOF ? Not so sure. Mcgwire NOWAY, he was a SO king and hr guy. His avg sucked! And was nothing special in the field either. I think rafeal P. took them too! He was getting like 10-18 hrs before 94'? then 30+ hmmm?

[UALKOEBS]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Bonds was a hall of famer before all of this, McGwire was almost out of the league with his near .200 batting average before he is reported doing steriods. Bonds yes, McGwire no.... But if you let McGwire in, Pete Rose MUST be brought back to baseball. What Pete did hurt himself, not the game. What Big Mac did was hurt the game, and himself. Even before all of this I thought Pete should be in, and what he did was not bad. He broke the rules, yes. If anybody says McGwire didnt thats bull, baseball didnt have the rule, but America did, STERIODS were illegal, Gambling is not.

I couldn't agree with you more! I am so sick of hearing that steriods were not illegal in baseball at the time, blah,blah,blah! Murder is not written in the MLB rule book either morons but I am pretty sure that murder is illegal in the freaking WORLD that we live in, just like steroids were/are illegal in the U.S. I hear radio hosts like vanearl wright, what a joke he is! All he keeps saying is that they werent illegal in baseball at the time! Well ******* they were illegal in the united states so that in turn makes them illegal in baseball Dip ****z! Niether belong in the HOF in my opinion, but how do you stop there or even start there? Sosa, palmerio, schilling etc.. I think it is too huge of a list and to much speculation even in obvious cases such as mac and bonds. Tough call, I am sure some that used will get in and some that did will not. Bonds was a very nice player and a sure allstar before he went to sf and juiced but HOF ? Not so sure. Mcgwire NOWAY, he was a SO king and hr guy. His avg sucked! And was nothing special in the field either. I think rafeal P. took them too! He was getting like 10-18 hrs before 94'? then 30+ hmmm?

[dl2518]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Bonds is for sure a Hall of Famer. He is the only guy to be 400/400 and 500/500 and that alone is HOF worthy not to mention 7 MVP's. Even if it's proven he did steroids he was already a hall of famer before the 2001 season. To me it's just riduculous to say he shouldn't be in the hall of fame. I'm not sure yet on Mcgwire because he was more of just a home run hitter and nothing else.

[dl2518]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Bonds is for sure a Hall of Famer. He is the only guy to be 400/400 and 500/500 and that alone is HOF worthy not to mention 7 MVP's. Even if it's proven he did steroids he was already a hall of famer before the 2001 season. To me it's just riduculous to say he shouldn't be in the hall of fame. I'm not sure yet on Mcgwire because he was more of just a home run hitter and nothing else.

[mjb2124]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Bonds was a hall of famer before all of this, McGwire was almost out of the league with his near .200 batting average before he is reported doing steriods.

Not true. He did have 1 very poor year (1991), but his BA (BA is a very poor stat IMO) was around the .250 mark before the alleged steroid use.

IMO both are guility and both should be banished from the HOF. That's not going to happen though...

[mjb2124]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Bonds was a hall of famer before all of this, McGwire was almost out of the league with his near .200 batting average before he is reported doing steriods.

Not true. He did have 1 very poor year (1991), but his BA (BA is a very poor stat IMO) was around the .250 mark before the alleged steroid use.

IMO both are guility and both should be banished from the HOF. That's not going to happen though...

[Starbase503]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

As much as I detest Bonds, he is probably Hall worthy. Big Mac was a career in jeopardy, with his Achilles Heel and back problems. His best numbers were obviously juice-induced.

However, as good as his career has been, it seems clear that without steroids, Bonds' numbers would not be anywhere close to what they are, and he very likely would have retired by now without the "help." I think if anything should be excluded, it would be the home run records of the last seven or eight years, as well as the impact on lifetime records. No way Bonds should be heralded as the all-time home run king.

[Starbase503]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

As much as I detest Bonds, he is probably Hall worthy. Big Mac was a career in jeopardy, with his Achilles Heel and back problems. His best numbers were obviously juice-induced.

However, as good as his career has been, it seems clear that without steroids, Bonds' numbers would not be anywhere close to what they are, and he very likely would have retired by now without the "help." I think if anything should be excluded, it would be the home run records of the last seven or eight years, as well as the impact on lifetime records. No way Bonds should be heralded as the all-time home run king.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

I couldn't agree with you more! I am so sick of hearing that steriods were not illegal in baseball at the time, blah,blah,blah! Murder is not written in the MLB rule book either morons but I am pretty sure that murder is illegal in the freaking WORLD that we live in, just like steroids were/are illegal in the U.S. I hear radio hosts like vanearl wright, what a joke he is! All he keeps saying is that they werent illegal in baseball at the time! Well ******* they were illegal in the united states so that in turn makes them illegal in baseball Dip ****z! Niether belong in the HOF in my opinion, but how do you stop there or even start there? Sosa, palmerio, schilling etc.. I think it is too huge of a list and to much speculation even in obvious cases such as mac and bonds. Tough call, I am sure some that used will get in and some that did will not. Bonds was a very nice player and a sure allstar before he went to sf and juiced but HOF ? Not so sure. Mcgwire NOWAY, he was a SO king and hr guy. His avg sucked! And was nothing special in the field either. I think rafeal P. took them too! He was getting like 10-18 hrs before 94'? then 30+ hmmm?

UALKOEBS, I like you but Im going to have to tear into your comments here. So dont take it too peronal ok?

Palmerio was 26 in 1990 and hitting 25+ HR's and never more than 50 in a season, and he has done it well into his late 30's . Palmerio has not seen the 'Get Huge' effect roids have had on sosa, mac and bonds. IMO he isnt and if he did he hid it well.

Bonds was not just an allstar he was a 7 time MVP (90,92,93,01,02,03,04)...won it 3 times in the early 90's (supposed pre-roid era). Bonds was the best player in the league besides griffey in the OF during he 90's. He was a great defensively with 8 gold gloves...not so much now with the knee and all...

Nobody in the history of the game has had more than 3 MVP's in a career Bonds has 7. EVERY guy who has had 3 MVP's in their career are in the HOF. Theres guys like Neikro and gaylord perry who have cheated and have records and HOF plaques that still stand.

I think he did roids and im not debating that...but he was well on his way to the HOF roids or not...

Your steroids are illegal rant has merit but comparing it to killing someone is not a good analogy at all. You cannot compare life in prison (murder) to a year in jail or 1,000 fine (steroids). You just cant. I agree it was illegal govermentally to have them in your possession. Period. Which makes it illegal in all other forums inside the U.S. But Humane Growth Hormone is legal so there can be an argument made there for the most part.

I agree Bonds cheated his way through a few years in baseball. But me as a fan. Not of Bonds or the giants I dont find anything wrong with it. Maybe i have just accepted that baseball isnt serious about anything. They have an aphetamine problem that is rampant and has shown to kill more than steroids. It has also shown to improve hand-eye coordination, reflexes, concentration and other things to enhance a players ability. But they wont do anything about this because it isnt a visible improvement like steroids. Baseball will never be tough on drugs because if it means more HR's, RBI's and steals then theyll let it slide because it brings people to the parks day in and out.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

I couldn't agree with you more! I am so sick of hearing that steriods were not illegal in baseball at the time, blah,blah,blah! Murder is not written in the MLB rule book either morons but I am pretty sure that murder is illegal in the freaking WORLD that we live in, just like steroids were/are illegal in the U.S. I hear radio hosts like vanearl wright, what a joke he is! All he keeps saying is that they werent illegal in baseball at the time! Well ******* they were illegal in the united states so that in turn makes them illegal in baseball Dip ****z! Niether belong in the HOF in my opinion, but how do you stop there or even start there? Sosa, palmerio, schilling etc.. I think it is too huge of a list and to much speculation even in obvious cases such as mac and bonds. Tough call, I am sure some that used will get in and some that did will not. Bonds was a very nice player and a sure allstar before he went to sf and juiced but HOF ? Not so sure. Mcgwire NOWAY, he was a SO king and hr guy. His avg sucked! And was nothing special in the field either. I think rafeal P. took them too! He was getting like 10-18 hrs before 94'? then 30+ hmmm?

UALKOEBS, I like you but Im going to have to tear into your comments here. So dont take it too peronal ok?

Palmerio was 26 in 1990 and hitting 25+ HR's and never more than 50 in a season, and he has done it well into his late 30's . Palmerio has not seen the 'Get Huge' effect roids have had on sosa, mac and bonds. IMO he isnt and if he did he hid it well.

Bonds was not just an allstar he was a 7 time MVP (90,92,93,01,02,03,04)...won it 3 times in the early 90's (supposed pre-roid era). Bonds was the best player in the league besides griffey in the OF during he 90's. He was a great defensively with 8 gold gloves...not so much now with the knee and all...

Nobody in the history of the game has had more than 3 MVP's in a career Bonds has 7. EVERY guy who has had 3 MVP's in their career are in the HOF. Theres guys like Neikro and gaylord perry who have cheated and have records and HOF plaques that still stand.

I think he did roids and im not debating that...but he was well on his way to the HOF roids or not...

Your steroids are illegal rant has merit but comparing it to killing someone is not a good analogy at all. You cannot compare life in prison (murder) to a year in jail or 1,000 fine (steroids). You just cant. I agree it was illegal govermentally to have them in your possession. Period. Which makes it illegal in all other forums inside the U.S. But Humane Growth Hormone is legal so there can be an argument made there for the most part.

I agree Bonds cheated his way through a few years in baseball. But me as a fan. Not of Bonds or the giants I dont find anything wrong with it. Maybe i have just accepted that baseball isnt serious about anything. They have an aphetamine problem that is rampant and has shown to kill more than steroids. It has also shown to improve hand-eye coordination, reflexes, concentration and other things to enhance a players ability. But they wont do anything about this because it isnt a visible improvement like steroids. Baseball will never be tough on drugs because if it means more HR's, RBI's and steals then theyll let it slide because it brings people to the parks day in and out.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Those of you who claim Bonds cant go into the HOF because he cheater need to look at the HOF...there are guys in there that were known cheaters BEFORE induction and still got in. You cant just change the rules all of a sudden because of bonds...IMO

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Those of you who claim Bonds cant go into the HOF because he cheater need to look at the HOF...there are guys in there that were known cheaters BEFORE induction and still got in. You cant just change the rules all of a sudden because of bonds...IMO

[gritzblitz56]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Those of you who claim Bonds cant go into the HOF because he cheater need to look at the HOF...there are guys in there that were known cheaters BEFORE induction and still got in. You cant just change the rules all of a sudden because of bonds...IMO

I never said that Bonds shouldn't be in the HOF, I just do not recognize any HR record that he sets as legitimate.

Much like the world did not recognize Ben Johnson's 100m world record back in 1988.

[gritzblitz56]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

Those of you who claim Bonds cant go into the HOF because he cheater need to look at the HOF...there are guys in there that were known cheaters BEFORE induction and still got in. You cant just change the rules all of a sudden because of bonds...IMO

I never said that Bonds shouldn't be in the HOF, I just do not recognize any HR record that he sets as legitimate.

Much like the world did not recognize Ben Johnson's 100m world record back in 1988.

[USCTrojan83]

Re: Steroids and HOF votes?

I never said that Bonds shouldn't be in the HOF, I just do not recognize any HR record that he sets as legitimate.

Much like the world did not recognize Ben Johnson's 100m world record back in 1988.

Agreed...

But there are people on here that do...sometimes just looking at what is here now and not what has happened before....Not trying to single you out