The Official 2006 Pittsburgh Pirates Thread

[Karlos05]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

Duke got lit up in one bad inning from what I read though. Got tired in the 4th, plunked a few and left a couple balls up. I'm still not real worried about him. Going to take a little more (although giving up a HR to Wigginton is a bit scary) before I really get nervous.

My mindset for Maholm going into the season is that it's going to be an up and down year. I can easily see him being around 9-10 wins with a low 4 ERA. Anything better than that and I'll be thrilled. I think Duke should probably be a little better (looks like he's being set up to start opening day) but his numbers might be a little tough to predict.

Also looks like some of the new bats are paying off. Seems like everytime I look Randa or Burnitz has a RBI double off the wall. I can get used to that in the season.


EDIT: Didn't see this before my post but the Pirates knocked aroud Jared Wright from the Yanks and won 9-8. Randa, Casey and Burnitz all look like they had good day. Pitching for the Pirates Burnett gave up lead off HR, but then went on to pitch 3 innings giving up 3 hits and the one run. Scoreboard says we won the other half of the split-squad 9-2 but I can't see the box score yet.

DOUBLE EDIT: In the other game Maholm gave up 2 runs on 7 hits over 4 innings, and Gorzelanny pitched 3 scoreless.

[LetsGoPitt]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

I'm hoping Gorzelanny is going to fill that spot left by Kip Wells.

As for Duke, I'm not too worried. He was doing well until he decided to start mucking around with his offspeed pitches. Most pitchers usually use spring training to work on some new pitches or fight for a job. And I thought he only gave up a double to Wiggles? Maybe I'm wrong....*shrug*

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

Yeah Duke isn't as big of a concern for me as Maholm is. I think Maholm is going to struggle this year and finish with a below .500 record and 4.25+ ERA.

As for the last 2 spots in the rotation..... A lot of guys are doing really well. Snell and Burnett have looked excellent. Gorzelanny has looked good as well and probably has the most upside of any of these guys. I also heard that Tracy is high on Duckworth.

Also look for Matt Capps to either make the team or be up a lot this year. I heard DL say that he is really impressed with this guy. Not sure if I mentioned this before or not.

[Karlos05]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

I like what Gorzelanny is doing but I think it's going to take an enormous effort for him to get a spot on the team. He's got AAA written all over him.

I think Snell might have done the most for himself so far. Had good outing and good stuff so far and the coaching staff seemed to notice. I thought he would be in the pen but he's done a lot to make a case for a spot.

[Karlos05]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldc...ory?id=2368917

Marte is hurt and is out of the WBC. Says he has inflamation in his shoulder and is heading back to Pittburgh to get checked out by Pirate doctors.

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

Great..... Marte hurt now and Ollie has only pitched 1 inning.

Ollie definately isn't going to be ready for the beginning of the year.

If Marte is out for a while, they might bring back Mike Johnston (who they just optioned down to AAA). Johnston has some electric stuff, but he can't find the plate all the time.

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

Ian Snell deserves the 4 or 5 spot in the rotation.

I haven't always been a supporter of his and have insisted that he needs to work on a 3rd pitch to go along with his fastball and slider, but he's earned that spot in the rotation this spring. I understand he is working on a changeup and throwing it more, but even if not, his numbers have been great so far.

He pitched again today against CL:

4IP, 2H, 0R, 0BB, 4K 1.38 ERA this spring

Santos, Vogelsong and Duckworth have fell on hard times lately and aren't pitching real well. Burnett and Gorzelanny have been very good as well. If the Pirates take the best guys available, one of those 2 should get the other spot in the rotation.

However, I kind of think Burnett and Gorzelanny will start in the minors and Santos will be the starter. That's been the Pirates way.... Of course, Tracy seems to have more say in these matters so we'll see.

According to some PGH sports writers, what we're seeing in terms of starting pitchers right now, will be the rotation. Tracy is getting his 5 in order now. Duke yesterday, Snell today and the rest to be determined.

[Karlos05]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

I think that all sounds about right. The only one who really has seperated himself is Snell and he deserves one of the spots. Plus just from pitching style standpoint having him break up Duke and Maholm in the roation would be a plus.

I also think you got in on Santos. Unless we see an injury or something he should get the last spot. Burnett probably pitched better and is the better long term option but having him spend a month in AAA while still coming back can't hurt. Vogelsong pitched himself back into the long relief role it looks like, and the others will probably be released or optioned down to AAA.

I also saw that Duke is being lined up to pitch Opening Day. Can't say he didn't earn it last year. When was the last time we had the same pitcher start consecutive opening days? I can't even remember off the top of my head. Last year was Ollie and the year before was Kip, but how about before that? Kip again? Benson? It's like 5am after St. Patricks day and my brain is shot. I think there was a *shudder* Ron Villone in there somewhere.

[rsox]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

I also saw that Duke is being lined up to pitch Opening Day. Can't say he didn't earn it last year. When was the last time we had the same pitcher start consecutive opening days? I can't even remember off the top of my head. Last year was Ollie and the year before was Kip, but how about before that? Kip again? Benson? It's like 5am after St. Patricks day and my brain is shot. I think there was a *shudder* Ron Villone in there somewhere.

I think you may have to go back to the days of Doug Drabek for the last time the Pirates had a pitcher start consecutive opening days.

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

Regarding opening day starters - Ron Villone was before Ollie and Kip. How pathetic was that?

I think rsox is correct. Drabek is probably the last guy to start consecutive opening days. Although Francisco Cordova might have during his short career. I still recall watching Cordova pitch a no hitter against HOU for 9 and the game was still tied 0-0. Pirates brought in Ricardo Rincon to pitch the 10th and then Mark Smith hit a game winning 3 run HR in the bottom of the 10th.

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/looking_forward/discussion/2006_pittsburgh_pirates/

Here's a pretty good preview for the Pirates by Baseball Think Factory. It covers things from ownership to management to players. I think this guy nails a lot of aspects of this team.

[Karlos05]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

That was a good read JB.

The writer sure didn't skimp on the part where he tears into the front office. I agree with pretty much what he's saying but the problem is that it's all still speculation. Until the books are opened (which would probably take divine intervention) we're never going to know if, or how much McClatchy and the Nuttings are pocketing. I think Dejan did a good atricle last year in the PG trying to do his best to piece together where the money is coming from and where it's going, and there was a large part unaccounted for that I'd bet is piling up in McClatchy's bank account.

One other thing that might be worth noticing was the Arroyo-Pena trade today. Rumors were that the Sox were interested in Craig for a pitcher. Sounds more and more like the front office is going to unload him which isn't a surprise, but how quickly they're trying. I thought it would be closer to the deadline before he was gone but he might not even be around by Opening Day.

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

Karlos - Yeah I thought that article was well written. You're right, we'll never know regarding the front office. We all have ideas, but no concrete evidence. I do think that the 30 MIL McClatchy reported losing a few years ago was BS. Maybe he lost some, but not that much.

Regarding Craig Wilson.....the one trade I heard seems less likely now. That being the Wilson for Clement trade. Of course, BOS would have to pay a nice chunk of Clement's salary - which I think was the stumbling block.

Although the PG article did state that there were 4 other teams Littlefield was talking to. I'd suspect he'd want a RH starting pitcher. I just don't know what we'd get. Someone who is more of a veteran will most likely cost too much, but a younger guy wouldn't have the experience I think they're looking for.

[mjb2124]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

How about Brandon Duckworth today? 5 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 BB's, 3 K's. His spring ERA is at 2.02.

Rotoworld states that Duckworth probably has little chance of making the rotation, but better chance at being in the bullpen. My thought - why not the rotation? Afterall, who else?

Duke, Perez, Maholm and Snell seem like obvious choices right now (unless Snell implodes these last 2 weeks). Burnett and Gorzelanny are going to start in AAA from what I've read. They've both pitched great, but from what I heard, the Pirates want both to have more minor league time before coming up. I think that's reasonable - even if I don't agree.

So that leaves Santos, Vogelsong and Duckworth. Vogelsong went 2 innings today and gave up 2 runs on 2 hits and 1 BB. His ERA is now at 9.00 and it's been rising lately.

Oddly Santos has less innings in ST than both guys (9.2). However, his ERA stands at 5.59, 3/1 K/BB ratio. However, this is alarming - 17 hits in 9.2 innings pitched. Wow. That spells trouble IMO. Compare that to Duckworth who's given up 10 hits in 13.1 innings.

So I guess what my long winded post is saying is that I think Duckworth has earned the #5 spot to start the year. If he's not getting it done by the All Star Break and Burnett or Gorzelanny are in AAA, bring one of them up and send him down or to the bullpen.

[Karlos05]

Re: The 2006 Pittsburgh Pirate Thread

It's an interesting question about the last spot. I think we can assume that Snell has one of the vacancies locked up, and that Burnett and Gorz are heading back to AAA so we can just focus on the other guys.

The one thing that might make or break the rotation is the contracts that the pitchers have. This really works in Vogelsons's favor because I'm 99.9% sure he has a guarenteed, major league contract for this year. He's lost his chance at the rotation but this really helps him to hold onto that long relief spot. Pirates would have to fork up some dough to cut him, and they can't send him back down to Indy.

Santos is of course a Rule V pick so giving him up is going to cost the Pirates money, and if they decide they don't want him to break camp on the ML roster they can't get him back at a later date. Again I think this helps Santos because he can start the season in the roster for cheap and if he bombs he can be given back.

Duckworth may be pitching the best of the 3 but his contract is only a minor league deal. Doesn't have to make the roster, but if he passes through waivers I think we can send him down to Indy without losing him (this will be at the end of Spring Training so there might not be that many teams looking to add players). He can then be called up for injury or any other reason if the front office doesn't think Burnett or Gorz is ready. A nice safety net for the major league team.

I'm trying to do most of this from memory so I'm not 100% sure about everything but the main points are there. If this year is anything like the past the Pirates will make some decisions on actually ability and who's done well (Snell) but some of the others may come down to cash and how long they can keep the respective players.

EDIT: Jason Bay is on Cold Pizza chatting right now. Talking about the usual stuff, new manager and the WBC etc. Buster Olney did his report card for the team and gave the wins projection and said the team is somewhere between 82-84 wins. Nice to see a Bucco on ESPN.