2008 Cincinnati Reds

[jake44np]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

jake, there is on need to blow your lid over it. It is just opinions of some people. Here is something to consider about Volquez...he has a 5.63era but has 13 k's to 2 walks. The knock on him in Texas was control. He appears to have found it. By contrast Bailey has 4.91 era with 6k's and 6 walks. As you can see Bailey isn't head and shoulders better than Volquez so far this spring. in fact he has only given up 1 less run in 2/3 less of an inning. The biggest difference between them is that Bailey has made 3 starts to Volquez 0.

With that said, I would LOVE to see Bailey make it in some fashion. I never said that he should start in AAA. I merely made a post about Bruce probably starting there (and I am on the fence about that with more leaning towards giving him a shot in the Bigs by about 70/30) and I mentioned a possibly starting rotation for now. But I also don't want him to be rushed into it and never realize his full potential. Again he is only like 21 years old, that's nothing. As far as Volquez, I guess I really want him to succeed because I really liked Hamilton and wished he wasn't traded. But by all accounts from what I have read is that Volquez has electric stuff. That is hard to come by and if he continues to show he has full command, how do you not give him a shot?

Also I don't think that what happens in Spring means a whole hell of a lot when it comes to stats. Spring is more about looking at mechanics and getting guys warm and in game condition for the upcoming, grueling season. Harang doesn't have OUTSTANDING numbers but we all know he will be solid, if not one of the best pitchers in the NL.

First off, if you think I was blowing my lid you really wouldnt like me when I really blow my lid. Making a point and blowing my lid are two totally different things. Also I really wasnt taking about anybody on this board, I was talking about everyone is Cincy. Sportstalk radio is acting like Volquez is the second coming, when he hasnt proved anything other then he can strikeout people. Enough about Volquez is everyone else like me and ready to hand Cueto the 3rd spot in the rotation??? The kid has been unreal this spring, I thinks he is going to make the team!!
Here is my rotation:
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Cueto
4. Bailey
5. Affeldt or Fogg-If Affeldt struggles again today I give it to Fogg. Affeldt has a 8.64 ERA this spring, he really needs to pitch well today.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

First off, if you think I was blowing my lid you really wouldnt like me when I really blow my lid. Making a point and blowing my lid are two totally different things. Also I really wasnt taking about anybody on this board, I was talking about everyone is Cincy. Sportstalk radio is acting like Volquez is the second coming, when he hasnt proved anything other then he can strikeout people. Enough about Volquez is everyone else like me and ready to hand Cueto the 3rd spot in the rotation??? The kid has been unreal this spring, I thinks he is going to make the team!!
Here is my rotation:
1. Harang
2. Arroyo
3. Cueto
4. Bailey
5. Affeldt or Fogg-If Affeldt struggles again today I give it to Fogg. Affeldt has a 8.64 ERA this spring, he really needs to pitch well today.

Well since I don't know you, I obviously don't know how you are in person. You just seemed to be a bit excited in that post about Volquez.

But I agree about Cueto. This kid is the real deal and I really want him in the rotation and I agree he could be possibly the 3rd starter if he continues to pitch this way. But what don't you like about Belisle? I believe he was the Braves 2nd round pick and you know the Braves know pitching. he did pretty well last year and seemed to really figure it out at the end of the year. I think his biggest problem last year was pitching from the stretch so I am hoping he got that worked out. I am telling you, Belisle, in my opinion, can be a very good #2 or #3 starter.

I do like your rotation with Bailey in it. I am very much a supporter of Bailey, but don't write off Volquez either. I posted their comparative stats and he does seem to be right there with Bailey so far this spring. If not even slightly better sans the era and 1 extra er. I think Belisle did well enough last year to nearly earn himself a spot in the rotation. If he doesn't make it then I like your rotation but with Volquez in there instead of Fogg or Affeldt. Granted 3 out of the 5 would be nearly rookies, but how great would that be to have 3 rookies (not sure who qualifies or doesn't) and they all get better and play together over the years. I would love to see that work out for the Reds.

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Volquez

or

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Belisle
Volquez/Bailey (whoever is most ready)

Either way I am figuring Cueto into the rotation. I think unless he completely falls apart the rest of spring, he has earned himself a spot with Baker as he talks about him too much and how great he is. Plus he has been lights out.

BTW jake, I wasn't trying to offend you about the "blow your lid" stuff. Some people on message boards, especially when talking sports, get way too excited about things and get all crazy. My apologies.

[jake44np]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

You did not offend me at all, in fact I really like shooting the **it with you about the Reds. I can tell you really know what your talking about and you make alot of sense.
Anyway I dont know what it is but I have never like Belisle and I think the Reds have gave him way too many chances to be a good starter and he hasnt takin advantage of those chances. The guy was 8-9 with a 5.32 era last year, he is a very average pitcher. I would rather put him in the pen and let one of our young stud prospects start.
Moving back on to Volquez I would really like to see him pitch the whole year in the minors. I just think he will be overwelmed if he stays with the big team. I think he would be way too inconsistant. For heavens sake the Rangers sent him all the way back to A ball last year. The Rangers gave him every opportunity to be part of their rotation and he had head problems. I do think he could be a very good pitcher one day but I just dont see him being real good this year for the Reds.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

You did not offend me at all, in fact I really like shooting the **it with you about the Reds. I can tell you really know what your talking about and you make alot of sense.
Anyway I dont know what it is but I have never like Belisle and I think the Reds have gave him way too many chances to be a good starter and he hasnt takin advantage of those chances. The guy was 8-9 with a 5.32 era last year, he is a very average pitcher. I would rather put him in the pen and let one of our young stud prospects start.
Moving back on to Volquez I would really like to see him pitch the whole year in the minors. I just think he will be overwelmed if he stays with the big team. I think he would be way too inconsistant. For heavens sake the Rangers sent him all the way back to A ball last year. The Rangers gave him every opportunity to be part of their rotation and he had head problems. I do think he could be a very good pitcher one day but I just dont see him being real good this year for the Reds.

Thanks jake, I appreciate the kind words. It's funny because I talk about the Reds on this site more than any other site. in fact I don't think I talk about the Reds anywhere but here. Reason is we have some good, rational, knowledgeable fans here and it is easy to have a good discussion about the team. This includes you eventhough you still give me crap about Patterson leaving, which I hope to God he doesn't, but I can forgive you for it since you are a Reds fan.

You may be right about Volquez. I knew they had sent him back to Single A last year in Texas to make him realize his chances were getting slim. If he doesn't make the team this year and starts in AAA, I am definitely cool with that to make sure that he is the prospect that everyone thinks he is. He obviously hasn't shown it in the majors yet, but I do believe he has the talent to be a good pitcher and maybe even soon. Time will tell though on him as again, I don't know a whole lot about him except what I hear out of spring training. I do like the fact that Cordero is from the Dominican Republic like Cueto and Volquez and from what I read he is mentoring them. To me that may be just as important as anything.

I do believe tha Bailey hasn't "figured" it all out yet. I don't know how much he has to prove in the minors anymore, probably nothing, but I would hate for him to lose confidence by not pitching well in the majors. Maybe starting off in the pen would do him some justice, that way he can stay in the bigs and learn from veterans and get to pitch against big league hitters but maybe not in pressure situations. His control is what worries me the most about him although I do believe he will eventually find it. Last year he would look like a dominant pitcher one game, and the next like he was out of his league. But I do forget a lot that he is only 21 so I think he has a very bright future ahead of him and hopefully it will start this year.

Belisle, I can see your point. But for some reason I like the guy and still think he can be a prett good pitcher. But his time to do something positive is probably running thin since we have so much talent in the organization now (can't believe I can even say that with a straight face). It will be interesting to see how Baker handles him. He may tell him to hit the road for all I know.

My biggest concern of all for the Reds this year, and next year and the year after that: Dusty Baker. When he was first hired I was not optomistic. Then I starting reading how his teams have gained like 20-30 wins in his first season. Read all the quotes from the players saying how happy they were that he was coming there and how they couldn't wait to play for him. So I started to think things might be alright. But after reading his stance on OBP and stats in general, I am really getting nervous. It isjust completely asinine to have the takes on baseball that he has after being in it for most of his life. I just don't get it. And if, BIG IF, it is true that he runs these pitchers into the ground and plays vets over young guys, then why the hell did we hire him? We finally have young, live arms that have great potential and he has the chance to ruin it. We finally have young, live bats with great potential and he has the chance to never let them see the light of day. I don't know, I hope he works out or if he doesn't work out, I hope he is gone before he ruins anybody.

If Dunn can continue to up his avg and lower his k's, maybe throw in a few more hr's with guys on base then I think he becomes the guy we thought he would be. I hope Griffey stays healthy because when he is, he is productive. But I think I will be glad when his time is Cincy is over. He has been one of my favorite players in the last 20 years but I feel like he is holding the Reds back with his money and his keeping younger players from playing. Also wish the Reds could find a hitting catcher that can throw a guy out. Maybe have Ross and Valentin have kids together? Phillips is awesome and I am very glad he is a Red. I also hope Keppinger continues to get the chance to hit as he can flat out rake. Not bad on defense either, not flashy or even better than average, but he is sufficient. And dang it Encarnacion, can you please break out and have a .290/30/100 season already? I mean we have been waiting for 3 seasons for this kid to break out...maybe this year? Oh and I still miss Hamilton.

That's my take on these boys. I would love for not only a winning season, but a playoff birth. Cincy has been bad for way to freaking long at this point.

[ELDoro]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I'm starting to like this board for Reds chat as well. I had enough of Redszone.com ....what a bunch of crap.

PhantomPain, I liked the signing of Baker. All the talk about him ruining young arms is a bunch of junk. Prior was messed up when running into Giles at 2B and Wood had problems and surgery before Baker was in Chicago. I think the Reds need someone that can ignite a spark and I believe Baker can do that. Now his comments on OBP and such did concern me since I'm a big fan of sabermetrics. HOWEVER, I realize the game is much more than numbers. I believe you can make a contenter out of sabermetrics but need a little something extra to have a true winner.

I'll admit that over this summer I have probably been less excited about the Reds than usual but the news of some of these good young arms has sparked by passion once again. Cueto, Volzquez, and Bailey to go along with guys like Bray, Salmon, and McBeth really can change this team and organization around. The Hamilton trade was unpopular but I was for it, not everyday you get a pitcher with electric stuff like Volzquez and although I love Hamilton there are a TON of outfielders just like him.....plus we have Bruce waiting in the wings. Some have commented on Bruce starting in centerfield but I have heard comments from a few in the Reds organization that question his ability in center ( i honestly havnt seen him play much in CF so dont want to draw anything from it).

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I'm starting to like this board for Reds chat as well. I had enough of Redszone.com ....what a bunch of crap.

PhantomPain, I liked the signing of Baker. All the talk about him ruining young arms is a bunch of junk. Prior was messed up when running into Giles at 2B and Wood had problems and surgery before Baker was in Chicago. I think the Reds need someone that can ignite a spark and I believe Baker can do that. Now his comments on OBP and such did concern me since I'm a big fan of sabermetrics. HOWEVER, I realize the game is much more than numbers. I believe you can make a contenter out of sabermetrics but need a little something extra to have a true winner.

I'll admit that over this summer I have probably been less excited about the Reds than usual but the news of some of these good young arms has sparked by passion once again. Cueto, Volzquez, and Bailey to go along with guys like Bray, Salmon, and McBeth really can change this team and organization around. The Hamilton trade was unpopular but I was for it, not everyday you get a pitcher with electric stuff like Volzquez and although I love Hamilton there are a TON of outfielders just like him.....plus we have Bruce waiting in the wings. Some have commented on Bruce starting in centerfield but I have heard comments from a few in the Reds organization that question his ability in center ( i honestly havnt seen him play much in CF so dont want to draw anything from it).

Yeah I am willing to see how Baker works out (as if what I think matters). His line of thinking is what scares me the most but we will just have to see how it all plays out. But Votto got where he is without Baker and now Baker is trying to make him swing more and that could really mess him up. Hopefully it won't and will actually make him better, but this does concern me.

While I think the Hamilton trade will "hopefully" work out for both teams in the end, I do question whether you find a talent like Hamilton everyday. I mean the guy is a specimen of talent and that can't be denied. His issues mainly will be if he can stay healthy. I truly hpoe he has a great career and I will be rooting for him.

As far as Bruce and CF goes, I heard that too. But if he isn't going to play Center for the Reds this year, then he isn't going ot be playing for the Reds this year. He won't unseat Dunn and shouldn't and you know Baker will never sit Griffey unless he is tired or hurt. So for Bruce's sake, I hope they aren't thinking that way. But I am lieke you and haven't seen him play so I really don't know how adequate he is in center.

Should be an interesting year and I agree about the young talent. I am more excited about the Reds than I have been in a long time now that we finally have this young talent coming up.

BTW, did any of you (maybe it is in this thread but I missed it) see the signing of the Latin 16 year old. I can't remember where he is from, but he apparently has power of 80 on a scouts rating that only goes to 80 I have read reports that people think he is better than Vlad Guerrero at his age and certainly has more power. Just another sign the Reds are finally starting to understand the importance of the farm system.

[jake44np]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

After what Affeldt did last night and what Fogg did today it looks like Fogg maybe our no5 starter. Affeldt pitched 2 innings last night and let up 7 runs, his ERA is almost infinite this spring!! lol
As for Fogg he pitched 5 innings of shutout ball today, 5 INN 3 HITS 3 K'S not bad for 1 million a year.
Also Votto is 0 for 3 again today with 2 k's they kid is going to end up in AAA this year. Speaking of AAA C. Trent Rosegrans is saying an inside source has told him that Jay Bruce is going to be sent to minor league camp tomorrow. He is saying they needed all the players they could get for todays split squad game and that a bunch of guys will be sent packing tomorrow.
One last thing did any of you hear about Dusty calling Dunn and Griff in for a meeting yesterday? He called them in and told them they where goofing off to much! He said that they where team leaders and veteran players and that if the younger guys saw them goofing off that they would think it was ok for everyone to goof off. Griff wasnt very fond of the meeting, when asked about it he said "yeah I called into the principles office today".
I think it is great, the veteran players have been running this team for too long.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

After what Affeldt did last night and what Fogg did today it looks like Fogg maybe our no5 starter. Affeldt pitched 2 innings last night and let up 7 runs, his ERA is almost infinite this spring!! lol
As for Fogg he pitched 5 innings of shutout ball today, 5 INN 3 HITS 3 K'S not bad for 1 million a year.
Also Votto is 0 for 3 again today with 2 k's they kid is going to end up in AAA this year. Speaking of AAA C. Trent Rosegrans is saying an inside source has told him that Jay Bruce is going to be sent to minor league camp tomorrow. He is saying they needed all the players they could get for todays split squad game and that a bunch of guys will be sent packing tomorrow.
One last thing did any of you hear about Dusty calling Dunn and Griff in for a meeting yesterday? He called them in and told them they where goofing off to much! He said that they where team leaders and veteran players and that if the younger guys saw them goofing off that they would think it was ok for everyone to goof off. Griff wasnt very fond of the meeting, when asked about it he said "yeah I called into the principles office today".
I think it is great, the veteran players have been running this team for too long.

I did see that about Griff and Dunn and I agree. There is a time to be goofy and a time to be professionals. When a bunch of young guys are there in Spring, it is time to be professional. If not, then they feel like they can get away with stuff which just means bad habits.

Votto I read isn't too much of an issue right now. baker said that he was told that Vottoo hit like .140 something last year in April so he is a slow starter. Baker didn't seem too upset about his current BA. I still think that Votto has absolutely NOTHING to prove in the minors anymore and the more I hear Baker talking nice about him the more I believe he makes the team.

Bruce maybe should be sent to minors but I don't think now is the time to do it. I mean there are still plenty of games left, right? I don't know. Maybe there are less than I am thinking, but to me having him there will only benefit him. But I just knew the signing of Patterson meant they wouldn't give Bruce the job. He had been doing great but has slumped a little lately. I am up in the air about this one, but I honestly felt from that he wouldn't get a fair shake after the Patterson signing. Oh well. He will likely (read: hopefully) get it done in the minors and make his way back up by June. NOTE: As I typed this I look at today's box score and see Bruce went 2 for 3...back to the "I wish they would keep him up" stance.

Fogg does seem to be playing himself into the rotation and Affeldt seems to be pitching himself out of a job. Not good. I am ok with Fogg but you HAVE to at the very very least give a spot to Cueto unless he suddenly falls apart. That kid is proving his worth everytime he goes out there.

EDIT: OUCH. Looks like Belisle had a heck of a start today. Looked good until today, but it is only one start. Leading into today he was 2-0 with a 3.86 era. Today he gave up 8 hits and 7 er's in 3 IP...not so good. Will be interesting to see how all this pans out with the rotation.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Bailey, Shearn, and Burton all got roughed up today. If Bailey makes the club it can only be as a relief pitcher I think. It would do him some good to stay up and not be in pressure situations. Kid needs to find his confidence or something.

[ESPNdeportes]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Bailey, Shearn, and Burton all got roughed up today. If Bailey makes the club it can only be as a relief pitcher I think. It would do him some good to stay up and not be in pressure situations. Kid needs to find his confidence or something.

Yeah, its looking more and more like he'll start off in Louisville. I'm a bit concerned about the beating Affeldt has taken so far, I mean he's getting roughed up. Same with Belisle. Hopefully just a spring thing.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Yeah, its looking more and more like he'll start off in Louisville. I'm a bit concerned about the beating Affeldt has taken so far, I mean he's getting roughed up. Same with Belisle. Hopefully just a spring thing.

Belisle has been looking good leading up to his last start. Look at a couple of posts back that I made at the end where I have "EDIT", I posted his stats leading to the rough up. Affeldt, Majewski and Maloney have been horrible this spring so I dont know how it will end up but I doubt any of them make the squad. Bailey has been getting consistently roughed up and Belisle has a higher era now because of his last start. Let's see how Belisle bounces back from that. That should be a good indicator to know if the last start was a fluke or not. Arroyo and Cueto have been lights out so far this spring and they are about the only ones (starters).

2 more weeks and I guess we will find out how this team will shape out. I am looking forward to it.

[sportsdude]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I have absolutely no problem if Votto, Bruce and Bailey all start the season in Louisville. Let Votto warm up a bit in the minors for a month or two then call him up, but really he's got nothing left to prove.

I know the team wants Cueto to start the season in AAA so they can delay his arbitration clock by a year, but what's the difference anyway? You're going to have to pay him one way or the other. In a year where the NL central is up for grabs, why not put the kid out there and see what he can do?

As for Bailey, I've said it before that I think he's going to be a good pitcher, maybe not as great as once thought, but still good. Yet it seems the kid needs to be put in his place after getting too many pats on the back for dominating inferior competition.

[ELDoro]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

I would like to see Cueto and Volsquez start out in the pen so they can get some confidence. Starting your first major league game is pretty intense and if they could get comfortable in games where we have a big lead or down big could be beneficial. I remember Roy Oswalt doing exactly this against the Reds. In fact I think it was his last game in the pen before moving to the Houston rotation for good. As for Bailey I have never been too impressed. Don't get me wrong, I do think he can be an above average pitcher but hes simply not the pitcher that everyone hyped. Yes, he can hit as high as 97-98 on the gun but only for an inning or two. I wouldn't mind seeing him out of the pen where he could come in and blow smoke for 1-2 innings. I do think starting pitching is more important but I think he could be dominating out of the pen and only above average-good in the rotation.

I'm all for starting Votto in AAA for awhile and seeing how Hatteberg does. Hatteberg played great last year and is definately not given enough credit. If Votto put up those numbers the fans would have already crowned him like Sean Casey. .394 OBP is great. I also wouldnt mind Bruce starting in AAA with Hopper playing very well last season. If I had my way I would have Dunn, Hopper, and Bruce in the outfield and move Jr. Now I'm not one of those Jr haters but if we could get a decently young player that could help us now I would be all for it......definately in the rotation or more realistically in the pen. I'm also not against moving Dunn for a similar type deal. A's and Reds have been rumored to be talking about Blanton all offseason and everyone know what Billy Beane thinks about high OBP and Slugging%.....Dunn is that guy.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Looks like the rotation is shaping up to be:

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Fogg

Volquez had another great outing yesterday striking out 6 in 5 innings and only walking 1, with no runs scored against. And that was against the Phillies (A) squad. He looked VERY impressive apparently. And Baker has all but said those two are in.

The Enquirer - Volquez, Cueto close in

I am fine with this. Whoever pitches the best deserves to get the shot. Cueto and Volquez seem to have the confidence needed to get the job done. I would love to see Bailey go to the pen and see how that works for him, but I don't know if that will happen. Fogg has been pretty close to lights out himself this spring so I think he deserves the other spot, unless Belisle bounces back with a couple of great outings, it sounds like what I posted above is what the rotation is going to look like.

EDIT: Volquez leads the majors this spring in strike outs with 19. Next closes is Dan Haren at 15. Not too shabby!

[sportsdude]

Re: 2008 Cincinnati Reds

Looks like the rotation is shaping up to be:

Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Volquez
Fogg

Volquez had another great outing yesterday striking out 6 in 5 innings and only walking 1, with no runs scored against. And that was against the Phillies (A) squad. He looked VERY impressive apparently. And Baker has all but said those two are in.

The Enquirer - Volquez, Cueto close in

I am fine with this. Whoever pitches the best deserves to get the shot. Cueto and Volquez seem to have the confidence needed to get the job done. I would love to see Bailey go to the pen and see how that works for him, but I don't know if that will happen. Fogg has been pretty close to lights out himself this spring so I think he deserves the other spot, unless Belisle bounces back with a couple of great outings, it sounds like what I posted above is what the rotation is going to look like.

EDIT: Volquez leads the majors this spring in strike outs with 19. Next closes is Dan Haren at 15. Not too shabby!

yeah but he needs to realize that in GABP you can't be a strikeout pitcher, especially if his control problems return.

I am curious to see how Fogg performs this season, all we need is for him to be mediocre for it to be a worthwhile investment, IMO.