2008 New York Mets Discussion

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  • TarHeelMan
    Th* H*mb*rg*r P*mp
    • Jul 2002
    • 7853

    #661
    Re: @ TarHeelMan

    Originally posted by nyisles16
    One thing that was mentioned was that he was seen talking for some time to one of the players in the dugout recently (seen on TV) -- not really where they should be I guess.


    Here's some other unhappy fans right now and what they are doing about it

    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny...0,835698.story
    Eddie Coleman of WFAN said that Bernazard was seen in the dugout chatting up Jerry Manuel for a long time while Willie was tossing batting practice. Everything about this dude just sounds shady, especially the stuff about him running back to players and telling them what Willie said about them in meetings... I read on another forum that he's actually a candidate for the Seattle GM job... I hope he gets it.

    This from Metsblog:

    In the last 24 hours, I have heard from people and read a ton of text about how the Mets fired Willie Randolph, which has been described as a ‘massacre,’ as, ‘dishonest,’ and as, ‘disrespectful,’ complete with people comparing it to a mob hit.
    According to Omar Minaya, during his press conference with reporters yesterday, he had no choice but to break the news to Randolph at midnight, after a game in the team hotel, because he feared that once the decision was made known to ownership, it would leak and reach Randolph through a ‘third-party source.’
    And so, instead of sitting in judgment of how it happened, journalists and fans would be better served by asking why it happened the way it did.
    Basically, from what can be inferred in his comments, Minaya believes there is a breach of communication within the organization, which is not good.
    It is this sort of fear and behavior that causes dissent, deceit and disastrous decisions, like during the last regime.
    Oddly, in the fall of 2006, several reports commented on how tight-lipped Minaya’s regime had been. Yet, here we are, just a year and a half later, and Minaya is making inferences to the contrary, in public, on television, and using it as an excuse for the way he confronted Randolph.
    This morning, WFAN speculated that Tony Bernazard and Jeff Wilpon are most likely to blame. During his interview with Minaya on WFAN yesterday, host Mike Francesa said he heard Bernazard was ‘gloating’ on Monday suggesting he already knew and was telling people that Randolph would be fired.
    In fact, from what I can gather, people who work in various departments for the Mets were already aware of Minaya’s decision as early as the seventh-inning stretch on Monday.
    What’s more, Mets Fans Forever wrote the following on its blog at 11 pm EDT on Monday, long before the press release or before any mainstream media outlet broke the news: “Sources close to Willie Randolph reveal that he has been fired after the game, or tomorrow…This is not a rumor. This is fact.”
    Additionally, earlier in the night, around 6:45 pm EDT at Baseball Prospectus, again, long before the press release, Will Carroll reported that Rick Peterson had been fired, later adding, “Sources tell me that the decision was made prior to the game, but that Randolph was not informed until after the game.”
    In other words, not only are their ‘leaks,’ but they come fast and to all sorts of writers, be it mainstream columnists or bloggers.
    To me, as a fan, who wants to see the Mets operate in the best possible way, this idea of loose-lips is far more significant than Willie Randolph’s ego.
    Last edited by TarHeelMan; 06-18-2008, 11:16 PM.

    Comment

    • nyisles16
      All Star
      • Apr 2003
      • 8317

      #662
      Re: Tony Bernazard @ nyisles

      Originally posted by Rod_Carew29
      yes, I heard that too...please

      I am a 'union' guy..but one with common sense...meaning, that if someone crosses a pciket line, I never assail them for what they do because they already know what may come to them for doing it...and no one has a right to judge/gague/dictate someone's situation.

      It really is time that those in MLB that still have hangups from '94(/) get over it....

      I remember Franco and Leiter would never totally embrace/forgive some players that crossed the line. I guess mainly because they were the Mets union delegates...when in fact, some of those that did cross, played better than their non-crossing asses...LMAO

      Rick Reed came to mind on that one.. I think finally Franco came around to accepting him as a teammate (towards the end)

      Comment

      • SPTO
        binging
        • Feb 2003
        • 68046

        #663
        Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

        I was just listening to an interview with an ESPN guy who's based in NY. Anyways the guy was saying that Willie's problem was that he didn't get along too well with the Latin ballplayers which was a big no-no because Minaya and Bernazard want this to be a "latin team". Willie was a lot safer when Manny Acta was on staff as he was a buffer between Willie and the latin players. As Tarheelman has said in the past about Bernazard hating Willie, well it was confirmed in the interview and basically they were just looking for an excuse to throw Willie under the bus even if the team was starting to play a little better.

        This Bernazard guy sounds like a real Machevilian (sp) type of guy orchestrating things for his enjoyment. Seems like Minaya just got influenced by it all and succumbed to the pressure of it all.
        Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

        "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

        Comment

        • TarHeelMan
          Th* H*mb*rg*r P*mp
          • Jul 2002
          • 7853

          #664
          Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

          Willie didn't have a problem getting along with the players, given the circumstances... The problem was that they knew that they could go over his head... You and I, we might work together, and get along fine... We may not go out for drinks after work every night, but we can deal with each other... If I'm tight with your boss, and I happen to have an issue with you, I can go straight to the boss and circumvent you if I know I can... The thing is, even the players who might have had issues with Willie, were inclined to play hard for him because THEY saw how unfairly he was being treated.

          Comment

          • TarHeelMan
            Th* H*mb*rg*r P*mp
            • Jul 2002
            • 7853

            #665
            Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

            More Bernazard stuff, courtesy of Newsday:

            Among their many travails during this trying time, the Mets have this going for them:

            They now employ the most famous vice president of development in baseball history.

            Omar Minaya left here Tuesday, after trying to defend his process of firing manager Willie Randolph and coaches Rick Peterson and Tom Nieto. But Tony Bernazard hung around Angel Stadium for the duration of the Mets' stay, as planned, joking around with the team's vice president of media relations Jay Horwitz during batting practice.

            He seemed unaffected by the public flogging he has taken for his perceived role in the Midnight Massacre. In fact, when I asked him about the countless reports that fingered him as a primary culprit, he claimed ignorance, and then turned to defiance.

            I'm not going to comment on it," he said. "I don't talk about what we talk about internally. I've got a great reputation. I don't have to defend myself against unfounded rumors."

            The truth, however, is that Bernazard's reputation has taken a pummeling. Take this for what it's worth, but Wednesday, I received two phone calls from industry contacts -- the first, a longtime friend of many Hispanic players, and the second, a scout from an American League team. Both, unsolicited, brought up Bernazard, both professed to not know him and both offered the same sentiment: "I hear he's a really bad guy."

            To all of this, Minaya responded angrily and passionately. The Mets' general manager, reached by phone Wednesday night, said, "I am convinced that Tony Bernazard's intent has always been, 'What can I do to help Willie Randolph?'"

            Added Minaya: "Tony Bernazard is one of the brightest people, and one of the hardest-working people, I've ever been around."

            Minaya has been wrapped up in the notion of "perception" nowadays; it served as a dominant theme in his Tuesday news conference. So it's worth noting Bernazard gives off a terrible perception.

            He hangs around the clubhouse more than any front-office person I've ever seen, checking in with players -- creating the perception that he served as a sympathetic ear to players who didn't like Randolph.

            When he's not with the players, he can often be found with Mets COO Jeff Wilpon, who also took a gigantic hit from the Midnight Massacre. The two men are close. In spring training, they'll sometimes share a golf cart.

            Every time the Mets played the Nationals, Bernazard conversed extensively with Washington manager Manny Acta, the Mets' former third-base coach, creating the perception that Bernazard wished that Acta was managing the Mets. To clear up any murkiness, Bernazard, who mostly avoids the limelight, conducted an interview with The Washington Post last September in which he effusively praised Acta's managing skills.

            And early Tuesday morning, when the hatchet fell on Randolph and the two coaches, Bernazard could be seen in the team hotel, giddy as a schoolgirl with a new dress.

            That's a heck of a lot of perception to overcome.

            To all of this, Minaya stuck to his guns. He said that, back in October 2005, it was Bernazard who recommended Randolph as Minaya's first big hire. "Tony has always been available and supportive to both the coaching staff and Willie," Minaya said.

            I've heard from too many reliable sources that Bernazard has been an anti-Willie force for quite some time now. At the very least, dating to the end of last year.

            ESPN's Buster Olney reported on Tuesday that a Mets' front-office member would tell players about negative evaluations from Randolph and his coaches. Bernazard is the natural suspect. The story is quite feasible.

            Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran, both of whom have developed close relationships with Bernazard, denied knowledge of such actions. "The only way I would know is if I was in the room when he said it," Delgado said. "I've never been in a room where he said anything that happened in the meeting. So that's as far as I can take it."

            Minaya credited Bernazard, who worked for the Players Association before joining the Mets upon Minaya's arrival as GM, with helping to bring aboard free agents such as Beltran, Pedro Martinez and Billy Wagner. In setting up everything good that the Mets have done.

            If it's true that Bernazard is innocent, then at the very least, he should be more mindful of his actions. Because right now, he's more infamous than famous.
            I can't take this as "the whole world is out to get Tony Bernazard"... He's a VP of Player Development, or something along those lines... Generally, this is a position where you don't know the person exists... If you have a grudge against someone, you usually go for the G.M., or some other highly visible, high-profile position, not some non-descript VP... Everytime I have heard Bernazard's name, or read it in an article, the context has not been good; it's always in crap like this... If I'm Omar, even though this is my man, after awhile I've gotta be like, "Dude, you're NOT HELPING.... You gotta fall back..."

            Comment

            • SPTO
              binging
              • Feb 2003
              • 68046

              #666
              Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

              It's a shame Fred Wilpon has been pushed so far into the background. I have a feeling he'd be tempted to flush Bernazard and Minaya out. Let's face it the Hispanic/Latin built team formula just isn't working.

              This whole situation has given the Mets organization a real black eye.
              Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

              "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

              Comment

              • TarHeelMan
                Th* H*mb*rg*r P*mp
                • Jul 2002
                • 7853

                #667
                Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                I don't know why the Mets have this ongoing perception as a "Latin" club... The last few major moves by Omar brought in Brian Schneider and Ryan Church, about as white bread as you can get. And that was around the time the Mets passed on Yorvit Torrealba... If you wanna count Santana, I'd discredit that because anyone with a pulse and the ability would have tried to get him. I think the whole "Latin" thing has been WAAAAAAAAAYYY overplayed in this, almost to the point of absurdity. Do they have Latinos on the team? Yes. Are they "built" around Latinos? I'd beg to differ.

                Comment

                • SPTO
                  binging
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 68046

                  #668
                  Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                  Originally posted by TarHeelMan
                  I don't know why the Mets have this ongoing perception as a "Latin" club... The last few major moves by Omar brought in Brian Schneider and Ryan Church, about as white bread as you can get. And that was around the time the Mets passed on Yorvit Torrealba... If you wanna count Santana, I'd discredit that because anyone with a pulse and the ability would have tried to get him. I think the whole "Latin" thing has been WAAAAAAAAAYYY overplayed in this, almost to the point of absurdity. Do they have Latinos on the team? Yes. Are they "built" around Latinos? I'd beg to differ.
                  We can agree to disagree but I remember when Minaya was the GM in Montreal and the makeup of that team was very Latin. Of course the Expos unlike the Jays never stopped concentrating on the Hispanic/Latin markets but still it was noted even back then that Minaya concentrated more on Latin ballplayers then anything else.

                  It could very well be overplayed but the guy has a history of doing that kind of thing.
                  Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                  "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                  Comment

                  • fsquid
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 17635

                    #669
                    Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                    So who wants to go get Valentine? I don't know any Japaneese, but I can take one for the team.

                    Comment

                    • EWRMETS
                      All Star
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 7491

                      #670
                      Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                      Manuel's a much better manager than Willie. Instead of sitting back thinking that the Mets will right the ship, Manuel is a much more active manager. The club looks much looser than they did under Willie. I'm suddenly confident that the Mets will make the playoffs.

                      Comment

                      • SPTO
                        binging
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 68046

                        #671
                        Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                        Originally posted by EWRMETS
                        Manuel's a much better manager than Willie. Instead of sitting back thinking that the Mets will right the ship, Manuel is a much more active manager. The club looks much looser than they did under Willie. I'm suddenly confident that the Mets will make the playoffs.
                        I like Manuel too. I really hope he does well enough to become the full time manager next year. He's one of those good guys in baseball.

                        Although I'd love to see Valentine back in NY. He really fit the Mets image and was a pretty good manager.
                        Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                        "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                        Comment

                        • Pared
                          Legen - WAIT FOR IT
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 39337

                          #672
                          Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                          Originally posted by SPTO
                          It's a shame Fred Wilpon has been pushed so far into the background. I have a feeling he'd be tempted to flush Bernazard and Minaya out. Let's face it the Hispanic/Latin built team formula just isn't working.

                          This whole situation has given the Mets organization a real black eye.
                          Yeah, especially considering how poorly they played in '06 and last year early on.

                          It's the same general nucleus of the team. To point to their race as a factor is very ignorant. The players, whether they are latin, white, black, asian, indian or any other race, are the ones ultimately responsible.

                          How many times has anyone said "this white built team" or "this black built team" just isn't working?

                          Stop the double standard garbage.
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                          Comment

                          • SPTO
                            binging
                            • Feb 2003
                            • 68046

                            #673
                            Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                            Originally posted by Pared
                            Yeah, especially considering how poorly they played in '06 and last year early on.

                            It's the same general nucleus of the team. To point to their race as a factor is very ignorant. The players, whether they are latin, white, black, asian, indian or any other race, are the ones ultimately responsible.

                            How many times has anyone said "this white built team" or "this black built team" just isn't working?

                            Stop the double standard garbage.
                            Well the Toronto Star did have a front page article THE WHITE JAYS a couple years ago so i've seen that kind of ignorance both ways.

                            I'll stop talking about the makeup of the team from now on. Sorry if I was looking ignorant.
                            Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                            "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                            Comment

                            • TarHeelMan
                              Th* H*mb*rg*r P*mp
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 7853

                              #674
                              Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                              Originally posted by Pared
                              Yeah, especially considering how poorly they played in '06 and last year early on.

                              It's the same general nucleus of the team. To point to their race as a factor is very ignorant. The players, whether they are latin, white, black, asian, indian or any other race, are the ones ultimately responsible.

                              How many times has anyone said "this white built team" or "this black built team" just isn't working?

                              Stop the double standard garbage.


                              I knew you'd come along, bro... That type stuff boils my blood like nothing else... The team is "built" around Latins, but pigment-challenged David Wright is basically the face of the franchise, and equally challenged Ryan Church was on his way to becoming an All Star...

                              Comment

                              • nyisles16
                                All Star
                                • Apr 2003
                                • 8317

                                #675
                                Re: 2008 New York Mets Discussion

                                now Willie thinks Jerry Manual did him in too..

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