Speaking of speed on the basepaths. On the radio today they were talking about the need to re-sign Michael Bourn and I couldn't agree more. Even if it means you can't re-sign one of either McCann or Hanson (the example given on the radio). The Braves don't have enough power bats to give up speed, and unless they plan on increasing payroll they won't be getting any anytime soon. So to me Bourn is the most important guy in that trio of players.
2012 Atlanta Braves thread
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
Speaking of speed on the basepaths. On the radio today they were talking about the need to re-sign Michael Bourn and I couldn't agree more. Even if it means you can't re-sign one of either McCann or Hanson (the example given on the radio). The Braves don't have enough power bats to give up speed, and unless they plan on increasing payroll they won't be getting any anytime soon. So to me Bourn is the most important guy in that trio of players. -
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McCann is going to cost $17 million a year. He's not going to be a Brave longterm, imo. Hanson, until he can go deeper into games, is less valuable than Bourn. Especially with the surplus of young starters the Braves have.
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
Isn't the point of having good pitching prospects hoping that they turn into a flat-out stud? While I'm not as blown away as so many others are for Hanson, he's like 25 and an animal. His problems are definitely workable. No point in fostering all these prospects if we're just gonna get rid of them for the hell of it.
I realize OF/speed is valuable but no way is Bourn more valuable than a guy who can be an unquestioned ace for the next decade. And no way is Bourn more valuable than the next face of the franchise. Hometown kid, elite offensive catcher, humble and unselfish, etc. I don't think someone will give him 17 million a year. And Mac strikes me as a guy who doesn't really care too much about money compared to comfort and such.
I shudder to think what the offense would be if our most consistent player left. Gonna be bad enough when Chipper retires. Jury is still out on Heyward long-term so hopefully he fulfills the path we hope for him.Comment
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
Braves fan here!
I'm loving this offense explosion...even Fatty, I mean, Juan Francisco is hitting a little.
My biggest fear is how much the bullpen will be used this year but so far, it hasn't been too bad. In the Milwaukee series, I loved how deep Fredi let his starters go with Minor going into the 8th and Beachy into the 7th. I hope there's more where that came from.Comment
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
At this point I'd much rather re-sign Bourn over Hanson. I have stuck up for Hanson but with each passing start he's making it harder and hard to continue to try to put a positive spin on everything he does.
But Bourn is in no way more important than McCann. McCann is the face of the franchise aside from Chipper.Atlanta Braves
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
Isn't the point of having good pitching prospects hoping that they turn into a flat-out stud? While I'm not as blown away as so many others are for Hanson, he's like 25 and an animal. His problems are definitely workable. No point in fostering all these prospects if we're just gonna get rid of them for the hell of it.
I realize OF/speed is valuable but no way is Bourn more valuable than a guy who can be an unquestioned ace for the next decade. And no way is Bourn more valuable than the next face of the franchise. Hometown kid, elite offensive catcher, humble and unselfish, etc. I don't think someone will give him 17 million a year. And Mac strikes me as a guy who doesn't really care too much about money compared to comfort and such.
I shudder to think what the offense would be if our most consistent player left. Gonna be bad enough when Chipper retires. Jury is still out on Heyward long-term so hopefully he fulfills the path we hope for him.
Secondly, as far as Hanson, I like Tommy. A lot. I think he has a chance to be a true ace. But he could also end up being a guy who's really good for 6 innings, but will never give you more than that. He's also still very young, but he's also a pitcher, and one with a history of shoulder trouble. Every player is an asset. You sell high, buy low. That's how you build a successful franchise. The Braves have many assets behind him. I'm not saying "get rid of Tommy". Not at all. But if I had to choose between a player at a thin position, and a player at a position with a lot of depth, I'm keeping the player at the thin position.
If I had to hand out a big contract to a player right now between McCann, Hanson, and Bourn, it'd be Bourn. For one, there's the WAR. For his career, McCann is worth about 3.25 wins per season (full seasons), and he was worth 2.5 last year. Hanson is worth 2.5 wins a year, and was down to 1.8 last year. Bourn is only worth two per year for his career, but has been a late bloomer, and has been worth 4.9 and 5 wins over the last two seasons. For two, there's depth. There's Delgado, Teheran, Gilmartin, Vizcaino, and others to fill a possible void of Hanson leaving. There's Betancourt (hopefully) behind McCann, and the fact that McCann will be 30 when he starts play with a new contract, at a position that players decline at very quickly (normally around 33 or so).
As far as Hanson, it's a moot point. He's under team control through 2015. The Braves will have plenty of money to spend this offseason, with both Derek Lowe and Chipper Jones coming off the books ($24 million). The Braves only have one long term deal in place at the moment (Uggla), and that comes off the books the same offseason Hanson would become a free agent. There's absolutely no reason to think that the Braves couldn't sign Hanson to a long term deal if they offered a long term deal to Bourn. Hanson, Heyward, and Freeman are likely the nucleus of this team going forward, and Hanson and Heyward can't hit the market until 2016, and Freeman not until 2017. McCann is a different issue, but I'm just not comfortable at all giving a 30 year-old catcher a 5 year deal worth in excess of $15M a year . There's no way I'd do it. If they had an opening at 1B, where I could transition him there to extend his career, maybe. But Molina's deal probably means McCann will end up with an American League team.Comment
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
Hopefully some really rich Braves fan owner comes to buy the team, then.Comment
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
Braves fan here!
I'm loving this offense explosion...even Fatty, I mean, Juan Francisco is hitting a little.
My biggest fear is how much the bullpen will be used this year but so far, it hasn't been too bad. In the Milwaukee series, I loved how deep Fredi let his starters go with Minor going into the 8th and Beachy into the 7th. I hope there's more where that came from.
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
First, McCann is gonna get paid. Yadier Molina just got 5 years/$75 million. McCann is gonna top that. Maybe he'll do the Braves a favor, and take a "discount" and settle for the same deal. But that's still not a great deal for the Braves, since they'd then be paying $15 mill for a 35 year-old catcher at the end of the deal. I love McCann, but his value is way overstated, and he's not worth nearly that much money, especially for an NL team that can't DH him. McCann averages 22 hr and 86 rbi for a full season, and has a slash line of .286/.358/.486. That's very good, but imo, it's not worth the kind of money he's likely to get, and those numbers will likely decline, quickly, if he stays at catcher.
Secondly, as far as Hanson, I like Tommy. A lot. I think he has a chance to be a true ace. But he could also end up being a guy who's really good for 6 innings, but will never give you more than that. He's also still very young, but he's also a pitcher, and one with a history of shoulder trouble. Every player is an asset. You sell high, buy low. That's how you build a successful franchise. The Braves have many assets behind him. I'm not saying "get rid of Tommy". Not at all. But if I had to choose between a player at a thin position, and a player at a position with a lot of depth, I'm keeping the player at the thin position.
If I had to hand out a big contract to a player right now between McCann, Hanson, and Bourn, it'd be Bourn. For one, there's the WAR. For his career, McCann is worth about 3.25 wins per season (full seasons), and he was worth 2.5 last year. Hanson is worth 2.5 wins a year, and was down to 1.8 last year. Bourn is only worth two per year for his career, but has been a late bloomer, and has been worth 4.9 and 5 wins over the last two seasons. For two, there's depth. There's Delgado, Teheran, Gilmartin, Vizcaino, and others to fill a possible void of Hanson leaving. There's Betancourt (hopefully) behind McCann, and the fact that McCann will be 30 when he starts play with a new contract, at a position that players decline at very quickly (normally around 33 or so).
As far as Hanson, it's a moot point. He's under team control through 2015. The Braves will have plenty of money to spend this offseason, with both Derek Lowe and Chipper Jones coming off the books ($24 million). The Braves only have one long term deal in place at the moment (Uggla), and that comes off the books the same offseason Hanson would become a free agent. There's absolutely no reason to think that the Braves couldn't sign Hanson to a long term deal if they offered a long term deal to Bourn. Hanson, Heyward, and Freeman are likely the nucleus of this team going forward, and Hanson and Heyward can't hit the market until 2016, and Freeman not until 2017. McCann is a different issue, but I'm just not comfortable at all giving a 30 year-old catcher a 5 year deal worth in excess of $15M a year . There's no way I'd do it. If they had an opening at 1B, where I could transition him there to extend his career, maybe. But Molina's deal probably means McCann will end up with an American League team.
Like I said before I love Hanson and have always stuck up for him but it's really disappointing how hard it is to see him always struggling to go past 6 innings. Sure he went 7 innings last start but he gave up 6 runs doing it. There is always something negative about Hanson's starts. He's been in the majors since May of 2009.
He had 8 starts of at least 7 innings pitched in 21 starts in 2009.
He had 4 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2009.
He had 11 starts of at least 7 innings pitched in 34 starts in 2010 in 34.
He had 9 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2010.
He had 7 starts of at least 7 innings pitched in 22 starts in 2011.
He had 4 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2011.
He has 1 start of at least 7 innings pitched in 3 starts in 2012.
He has 2 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2012.
He has 27 starts of at least 7 innings in 80 starts in his career.
He has 19 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in his career.
It's not good when you have almost as many starts of 5 or less innings as you do starts of 7 or more innings. Add in the fact that Hanson used to sit at 94/95 mph before he started having shoulder problems and now he barely touches 90 and it raises a red flag.
Hanson at this point in his career is not worth a big time deal especially when we have a line of guys in the minors that have been time potential. If Hanson were to ever get his act together then sure we could give him that kind of deal that he would get on the open market.
Mike Minor has already done something in his career that Tommy Hanson has never done. Minor has gone more than 7 innings in 2 straight starts. Hanson has never done it.Atlanta Braves
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I totally agree with everything you said. McCann is my favorite player but it's not a good deal to give McCann going into his age 30 season a 5 year deal for at least $75M. If we had the DH to work with then I would do it in a heartbeat. But we don't have the DH and McCann isn't athletic enough to play 1B or the outfield plus we don't have openings at those positions.
Like I said before I love Hanson and have always stuck up for him but it's really disappointing how hard it is to see him always struggling to go past 6 innings. Sure he went 7 innings last start but he gave up 6 runs doing it. There is always something negative about Hanson's starts. He's been in the majors since May of 2009.
He had 8 starts of at least 7 innings pitched in 21 starts in 2009.
He had 4 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2009.
He had 11 starts of at least 7 innings pitched in 34 starts in 2010 in 34.
He had 9 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2010.
He had 7 starts of at least 7 innings pitched in 22 starts in 2011.
He had 4 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2011.
He has 1 start of at least 7 innings pitched in 3 starts in 2012.
He has 2 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in 2012.
He has 27 starts of at least 7 innings in 80 starts in his career.
He has 19 starts of 5 or less innings pitched in his career.
It's not good when you have almost as many starts of 5 or less innings as you do starts of 7 or more innings. Add in the fact that Hanson used to sit at 94/95 mph before he started having shoulder problems and now he barely touches 90 and it raises a red flag.
Hanson at this point in his career is not worth a big time deal especially when we have a line of guys in the minors that have been time potential. If Hanson were to ever get his act together then sure we could give him that kind of deal that he would get on the open market.
Mike Minor has already done something in his career that Tommy Hanson has never done. Minor has gone more than 7 innings in 2 straight starts. Hanson has never done it.
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Re: 2012 Atlanta Braves thread
I realize it's not a popular thing to say, but if you break it down it makes sense.
McCann is going to cost a ton to re-sign, and I don't know that 17 million a year is all that unrealistic. Joe Mauer signed for $23 million a year. Yadier Molina just signed for 5 years 75 million. That's $15 million a year for a guy who isn't McCann's caliber. I want to keep McCann, and he's a really good player. But factor in the likely cost to keep him (if he just signs the same deal Yadier got that is 1/6 of the team's payroll this season) and the wear and tear a guy in his position takes.
Lets also face facts. We all love McCann and he is a good player. Most of his value though comes from his position. He's going to get paid, but the question is should the Braves give that kind of money to a career .285 and about 22-23 home runs a year hitter?
Hanson has yet to show that he is a true ace. He's still young though so that could change, but I'm not talking about what ifs. If you ask me today who is more valuable: A guy who gives you a dynamic offense putting pressure on opposing pitchers and defenses and playing great defense himself, or a guy who 3 years into his career is a #2 with the potential to be a #1...not to mention all the other good arms in the system...
If you want to have a good offense then you better either have some great power or some really good speed. Braves don't have the ladder and they can't afford it either. There also aren't a lot of guys in the majors who can fill the role Bourn does which further increases his value.
Hopefully though money won't be an issue. I am very concerned that they haven't locked Bourn up yet. I hope it isn't a sign that they don't want to pay him.Last edited by KSUowls; 04-20-2012, 10:51 PM.Comment
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