The Next Step in Immersion For Me

[Goffs]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

OP update: From the makers of "Real Voice," I bring you, "Real Noise"
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_zbusaq1EKo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Nicely done! I found a sound mod for 2k14 PC that gives a more realistic sound effect for dunks and shots. Only drawback is that it's a bit low compared to the vid here.

2k should just rip the crowd noise from a televised game and just edit from there.

[HoopHawk]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

Wow.. An awesome post indeed. Like all the ideas!

[Jakeness23]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

That "Real Noise" video, holy crap that would sound AMAZING in game. Bout gave me chills. If you added on individual broadcast teams for every team + national guys for big games/playoffs (probably not enough memory, even on our super consoles now, might have to wait for NEXT gen) then I'd probably faint.

[aogjigoqg]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

fantastic man...great, constructive feedback...

[reptilexcq]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

I have never seen a sports game with crowd noises that make you wanna say, "WOW, that was awesome." For some reason, they never manage to get it right. On the other hands, you see games like The Last of US (although not sports game) and Silent Hills...those games are special because the sound ALONE make the games stand out (never mind the other factors).

[2KLeague]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

This would be a huge leap forward for 2K if they achieve all that you've mentioned. Great post! I'm surprised no one from 2K has seen this or have made any replies. Probably one of the best posts I've read here.

[reptilexcq]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

That "Real Noise" video, holy crap that would sound AMAZING in game. Bout gave me chills. If you added on individual broadcast teams for every team + national guys for big games/playoffs (probably not enough memory, even on our super consoles now, might have to wait for NEXT gen) then I'd probably faint.

It makes you wonder why they can't put that kind of crowd noise in the game. I mean even if the crowd noise is out of synch...i don't care....just add this piece of audio and let it loop for all I care. It's better than anything NBA2K have offered.

[turty11]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

i doubt theres ever "real noise" for commentary, but the crowd stuff, if they can do it with players voice i see no reason it cant be done with the crowd.

[Bearsfan1]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

This is gold. The only thing I would add is dynamic commentary. Have a template set up (like with the signature skills dialogue) where the commentators fill you in on pertinent info about the players. For instance:

Player "X" is at the line.

Kevin: "So, Clark, what do you think about (player last name) game?

Clark: "I really like this kid out of (school). He (pick best position specific attribute) well, and he's not bad at (2nd best attribute). He needs to work on his (lowest position specific attribute), though. He has room to grow (based on his actual potential) his game some more. He may not be a star (again, based on potential) in the league, but he can help round out your rotation."

Kevin: "He's certainly an interesting player to watch, Clark. So far he's averaging _____(PPG) along with ______(position specific stat). That's on par with what he did last season."

That's just one example. There could be dozens of them. It would really add to the ingame immersion.

The idea is not bad, but the dialogue sounds too mechanical, just reading it.

IMO, they should just record the commentators during real life NBA games throughout the year, and then use the content accumulated from that. With a little editing, that could take the game to the next level.

Of course, there should still be recording sessions done to fill in the gaps, like for rookies coming into the league etc.

[CBfromCU32]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

I agree with everything! I would really play this game for 2-3 years maybe more if it had all this. I just dont think this would happen because the game comes out every year and they like to save certain things for the next year. Honestly if they did this next years game would just be updated rosters. Would you mind them skipping a year or two if the game had more of this stuff? I wouldn't..

[lakers24]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

I agree with everything! I would really play this game for 2-3 years maybe more if it had all this. I just dont think this would happen because the game comes out every year and they like to save certain things for the next year. Honestly if they did this next years game would just be updated rosters. Would you mind them skipping a year or two if the game had more of this stuff? I wouldn't..

That's the thing though, some of it could be implemented in parts(atleast the big stuff like FA & the jersey/court creator), while the rest is definitely possible in one dev cycle(crowd colors, jersey fixes, sideline characters, sound effects/crowd noises).

[AntiBandwagoner]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

Quite possibly one of the best posts I've seen on OS.

Great ideas, great work.

[lakers24]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

Player Movement
This is a biggie for me. I've thought about it in recent weeks from people's complaints of 2k playing "like 2k." I really tried to understand what that statement meant and a lot of it has to do with the overall movement of the game. It's distinctive. It looks like basketball, but something about it looks off and weird. After looking at the new NBA Live gameplay clips it really hit me what the game is lacking in the movement department:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aT1aBb05BdI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Notice in this clip the cuts Dion Waiters makes off the ball. That is non existent in this game regardless if a play is called or not. Most times players tend to jog to a position and even when running never plant their feet showing a sense of momentum.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZBHrQeCRb5s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this clip 2 things are visible. One, look at how LeBron comes to get the ball hard. The angle he uses, the cut, it looks like how it would irl vs him just jogging over or standing at the left elbow waiting for a pass while the defender could easily jump the passing lane but doesn't to make up for it. Two, when the user switched to Ariza he slightly moved his feet to LeBron right foot opening up a drive left for Lebron. Irl LeBron's first step is so quick that this is enough to do exactly what happened and get to the hole, in 2k the defender would have slid over without chopping his feet basically rendering your first step and advantage useless.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_HEQQQkEbX4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this clip, again the cuts off the ball look like real ball. Harden cuts to the top and meets the ball hard giving him ample time to make something happen, but also giving him an advantage over Waiters because Waiters is late and has to recover(also notice Ariza's side skip back out w/ his hands ready to catch and shoot right before Harden drives). Harden's stutter step was also a thing of beauty. After the in and out he crosses to his dominant hand and hesitates, Waiters bites with a reach and BOOM Harden has blown past him(you reach I teach).

In this video, I show the lack of athleticism the movements in this game has. Right now the running styles look like something dating back to PS2 era(mind you they only updated them 1 time since that era back in 2k9 I believe). There also isn't enough of them and they are tied to position and not athletic ability. Perfect example is the Clippers. While DeAndre Jordan is a 7 ft C and Blake Griffin is a PF, both are probably the most athletic to ever play their respective positions. Both are as fast as some guards and have a certain bounce to their sprint, jog, walk. In 2k they plod down the court like Yao Ming giving them no distinctive character besides dunks(btw DeAndre needs his own dunk package and some alley oops need to be removed and replaced with others because they don't look real at all. Same with the chin up dunks, technicals anyone?).
Same thing for the ultra athletic guys like LeBron, Rose, Westbrook. I feel no different controlling them than i do the rest of the NBA, and not one of them can I legit break away from anyone on a fastbreak while in reality that's what sets them apart:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8BMkaG4XDnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Trackball]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

2K hired Leftos.
2K hired Bedwardsroy19.
2K hired Da_Czar.

As Seinfeld's caricature of George Steinbrenner once said, I will say about lakers24...

"HIRE THIS MAN!"

[Kaynogamez]

Re: The Next Step in Immersion For Me

Player Movement
This is a biggie for me. I've thought about it in recent weeks from people's complaints of 2k playing "like 2k." I really tried to understand what that statement meant and a lot of it has to do with the overall movement of the game. It's distinctive. It looks like basketball, but something about it looks off and weird. After looking at the new NBA Live gameplay clips it really hit me what the game is lacking in the movement department:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aT1aBb05BdI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Notice in this clip the cuts Dion Waiters makes off the ball. That is non existent in this game regardless if a play is called or not. Most times players tend to jog to a position and even when running never plant their feet showing a sense of momentum.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZBHrQeCRb5s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this clip 2 things are visible. One, look at how LeBron comes to get the ball hard. The angle he uses, the cut, it looks like how it would irl vs him just jogging over or standing at the left elbow waiting for a pass while the defender could easily jump the passing lane but doesn't to make up for it. Two, when the user switched to Ariza he slightly moved his feet to LeBron right foot opening up a drive left for Lebron. Irl LeBron's first step is so quick that this is enough to do exactly what happened and get to the hole, in 2k the defender would have slid over without chopping his feet basically rendering your first step and advantage useless.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_HEQQQkEbX4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In this clip, again the cuts off the ball look like real ball. Harden cuts to the top and meets the ball hard giving him ample time to make something happen, but also giving him an advantage over Waiters because Waiters is late and has to recover(also notice Ariza's side skip back out w/ his hands ready to catch and shoot right before Harden drives). Harden's stutter step was also a thing of beauty. After the in and out he crosses to his dominant hand and hesitates, Waiters bites with a reach and BOOM Harden has blown past him(you reach I teach).

In this video, I show the lack of athleticism the movements in this game has. Right now the running styles look like something dating back to PS2 era(mind you they only updated them 1 time since that era back in 2k9 I believe). There also isn't enough of them and they are tied to position and not athletic ability. Perfect example is the Clippers. While DeAndre Jordan is a 7 ft C and Blake Griffin is a PF, both are probably the most athletic to ever play their respective positions. Both are as fast as some guards and have a certain bounce to their sprint, jog, walk. In 2k they plod down the court like Yao Ming giving them no distinctive character besides dunks(btw DeAndre needs his own dunk package and some alley oops need to be removed and replaced with others because they don't look real at all. Same with the chin up dunks, technicals anyone?).
Same thing for the ultra athletic guys like LeBron, Rose, Westbrook. I feel no different controlling them than i do the rest of the NBA, and not one of them can I legit break away from anyone on a fastbreak while in reality that's what sets them apart:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8BMkaG4XDnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Very good post. 2k animations are too clunky especially the running animation. The running and movement needs to feel natural and dynamic!
2k rely too much on useless animations that break the flow of the game sometimes i feel like i don't have much control of the player I'm controlling as if the AI is dictating my next move before i even make a move.
We need to create a new thread just for that.
The only thing Live is lacking right now is with the players models and some animations here and there, but once they figure it out and get the players models to look very good i believe 2k will be in real trouble.