I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

[El_Poopador]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Passing windows can open and close within a matter of seconds, if not less. A player's passing rating "should" determine how well they can thread a pass, regardless of what type is executed.

The rating should tie in how successful a pass is made period. If 2K has to have a ball clip through some arms, and feet, so be-it, as long as the game has established rules on what is an open pass relative to the defense. More than likely, that shouldn't be the case, as I imagine player animations are already bound to specific rules anyway.

I agree lol. I never said otherwise. But, like you said, a passing lane can open and close within seconds. So if I expect my player to throw a bullet, and he throws a slow floater, I'm going to be upset. But, if I choose to throw a bullet, and it gets deflected or stolen because I threw it with a poor passer, then at least I know it was my own mistake.

Again, I am not saying passing ratings shouldn't matter. In fact, I'm saying exactly the opposite. They should matter more, and it should be more on the user to know what their player is good at in terms of passing.

Let's put it this way: in the game, I can choose to take a fadeaway, a hook shot, a leaner, a floater, etc., with any player I want, regardless of their rating at each respective shot type and distance. Their rating will determine whether or not it goes in, but I am the one choosing what type of shot to take. I just want that same type of system for passing.

Controls/user input should determine the actions a player takes on the court. Ratings should determine the success of those actions.

[Vni]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Basketball is more of a metal sport than anything else. Play smart and you should win the majority of your games. Work smart, not hard. Adding more mechanics is working hard to a goal that is achievable for someone who knows how to gain the same result with something much simpler.

Sounds like to me you're more into the coaching aspect of a basketball game.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

I agree lol. I never said otherwise. But, like you said, a passing lane can open and close within seconds. So if I expect my player to throw a bullet, and he throws a slow floater, I'm going to be upset. But, if I choose to throw a bullet, and it gets deflected or stolen because I threw it with a poor passer, then at least I know it was my own mistake.

Again, I am not saying passing ratings shouldn't matter. In fact, I'm saying exactly the opposite. They should matter more, and it should be more on the user to know what their player is good at in terms of passing.

Let's put it this way: in the game, I can choose to take a fadeaway, a hook shot, a leaner, a floater, etc., with any player I want, regardless of their rating at each respective shot type and distance. Their rating will determine whether or not it goes in, but I am the one choosing what type of shot to take. I just want that same type of system for passing.

Controls/user input should determine the actions a player takes on the court. Ratings should determine the success of those actions.

If there's only a handful of unique situations that require unique passes, the game should automatically determine it. Like I've stated, the A.I. should determine the best pass based on the scenario (and ratings), if it's specific enough. And if you feel the need to throw bullets, swing, and bounce passes, on occasion...then something else is fundamentally wrong with the game.

[El_Poopador]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Basketball is more of a metal sport than anything else. Play smart and you should win the majority of your games. Work smart, not hard. Adding more mechanics is working hard to a goal that is achievable for someone who knows how to gain the same result with something much simpler.

Championship teams work both hard and smart. That's why athleticism is just as important to the game as strategy. That's why players change the way they play as their careers progress. Kobe doesn't attack the rim as much as he used to in his prime. He works hard and smart to perfect the mechanics of his game.

I believe the type of pass is irrelevant if the context of the situation is ambiguous. The timing of the pass is more important. Ratings should determine the type of pass if so, since elite passers can generally hit their targets in such situations, no?

I think the timing is just as important as the type of pass. If Lebron is running toward the hoop and jumps for an alley oop, and I throw a perfectly timed bounce pass, I'm willing to bet it's going to result in a turnover. And that would be on me, because I chose to throw a bounce pass.

I can actually use that scenario for 2k14: I have turned the ball over on a 2-on-1 break trying to throw an alley-oop because my player threw a bullet pass that got deflected, instead of a high lob pass to go over the single defender. It's not because the passer's rating was low, but because the type of pass I wanted to throw was not the type of pass that was actually thrown.

[Sundown]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Basketball is more of a metal sport than anything else. Play smart and you should win the majority of your games. Work smart, not hard. Adding more mechanics is working hard to a goal that is achievable for someone who knows how to gain the same result with something much simpler.

Except a huge part of the metal game is knowing what type of pass and when, and having the reflexes and ability to recognize what pass to throw through that gap. The addition of the manual bounce pass was extremely rewarding, as will be the addition of the lob pass. As a result, my real basketball game and my 2K game share more in common.

Not only do pass controls eliminate mistakes due to the CPU choosing the wrong pass, it adds to the visceral experience of basketball.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Sounds like to me you're more into the coaching aspect of a basketball game.

No. I play this game competitively. I do not play offline modes at all, mostly because the base game is broken imo. I generally find the online experience enjoyable since there is some variety in general strategies, often the one who makes the correct adjustments win.

However, people that I play against or with always talk about improving aspects of their game that's should be irrelevant to winning. One being the argument of user vs. off-ball defense, who has the easiest shot releases, and other cheese tactics that just so happen to be related to user input.

[El_Poopador]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

If there's only a handful of unique situations that require unique passes, the game should automatically determine it. Like I've stated, the A.I. should determine the best pass based on the scenario (and ratings), if it's specific enough. And if you feel the need to throw bullets, swing, and bounce passes, on occasion...then something else is fundamentally wrong with the game.

There's that word again. The game should also understand that the starters don't need to be on the floor in the fourth quarter of a blowout. But that still happens, especially in My Career. The game should know that if I press the pass button, but then get thrown into a stumble animation, I don't want to make that pass after the animation completes, because that man probably isn't open anymore.

There's a lot of things the game should do. But it's not easy to program all of those things to work all the time. I would rather have control over something like the type of pass I make than having to rely on the game to make that decision for me.

[Sundown]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

And if you feel the need to throw bullets, swing, and bounce passes, on occasion...then something else is fundamentally wrong with the game.

Erm. This aspect has been one of my favorite additions. Because it feels that much more like actual basketball. It's also slightly improve my instincts in the real thing.

I consider that something fundamentally right with the game.

I suppose there should still be an auto-pass setting for some folks, but no way does having to consider what pass to throw indicate something wrong with the game, when it's the very essence of the game it attempts to simulate.

Same goes for selecting your type of shot and dribble move.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Except a huge part of the metal game is knowing what type of pass and when, and having the reflexes and ability to recognize what pass to throw through that gap. The addition of the manual bounce pass was extremely rewarding, as will be the addition of the lob pass. As a result, my real basketball game and my 2K game share more in common.

Not only do pass controls eliminate mistakes due to the CPU choosing the wrong pass, it adds to the visceral experience of basketball.

Generally, a simple chest pass should be the most common pass in the game if it already isn't. For that remaining 5-10% of the time, then your point holds the most relevance.

Play-sets that are well-designed and executed will feature simple, high-percentage passes.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Erm. This aspect has been one of my favorite additions. Because it feels that much more like actual basketball. It's also slightly improve my instincts in the real thing.

I consider that something fundamentally right with the game.

I suppose there should still be an auto-pass setting for some folks, but no way does having to consider what pass to throw indicate something wrong with the game, when it's the very essence of the game it attempts to simulate.

Same goes for selecting your type of shot and dribble move.

I'd love for NBA 2K to actually be a simulation of professional basketball, not street-ball or how you play in real life. Most situations in the NBA are devoid of specific passes if they're not involving a star player, and it's generally on a highlight reel, and generally we're not seeing a high frequency of highlight reel passes in one game. This stuff should be regulated to the A.I., not the user. It would definitely minimize the cheese on the court.

[ImaFreeThinker]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

I have my doubts about 2K fixing the passing in 1 year. 2K14 is so broken in this aspect. There's no way to reliably pass out of traffic/double team (not to mention the poor spacing of teammates in this scenario). Either the bullet pass goes flying 4 ft the wrong way from the intended target, or you get the slow/floaty overhead pass animation which is picked off with ease (by the psychic AI defender I might add)...I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. I desperately hope that 2K proves me wrong.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

There's that word again. The game should also understand that the starters don't need to be on the floor in the fourth quarter of a blowout. But that still happens, especially in My Career. The game should know that if I press the pass button, but then get thrown into a stumble animation, I don't want to make that pass after the animation completes, because that man probably isn't open anymore.

There's a lot of things the game should do. But it's not easy to program all of those things to work all the time. I would rather have control over something like the type of pass I make than having to rely on the game to make that decision for me.

Give the developers time to fix the base game and not shortcut by giving us another shiny toy to abuse? They've given us more control in the past, and it generally resulted in it being cheesed, and we had to wait a full year to have that aspect of the game fixed or removed entirely. In other words, we don't need more control. We need for the core gameplay mechanics to be simple, easier for the player to read and execute on both ends of the floor. As of today, the game is so far from being simple, yet you want another layer of complexity thrown on top?

[Vni]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

I definately think more control on what's happening on the court is the way to go. The user should be deciding most of what's happening and not some tendencies or the AI.

[El_Poopador]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Give the developers time to fix the base game and not shortcut by giving us another shiny toy to abuse? They've given us more control in the past, and it generally resulted in it being cheesed, and we had to wait a full year to have that aspect of the game fixed or removed entirely. In other words, we don't need more control. We need for the core gameplay mechanics to be simple, easier for the player to read and execute on both ends of the floor. As of today, the game is so far from being simple, yet you want another layer of complexity thrown on top?

I agree that some things that have been introduced have allowed cheese to happen. But this "layer of complexity" would not really be a shortcut, but more of a step toward realism. Like I said, I've already had many plays and scoring opportunities ruined by the wrong type of pass.

And I don't see how you would be able to perform any sort of cheese simply by choosing a quick chest pass over floaty overhead pass. It's the same thing as choosing a fadeaway instead of a hook. Again, user chooses the actions, and success is determined by ratings.

[Sundown]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

No. I play this game competitively. I do not play offline modes at all, mostly because the base game is broken imo. I generally find the online experience enjoyable since there is some variety in general strategies, often the one who makes the correct adjustments win.

However, people that I play against or with always talk about improving aspects of their game that's should be irrelevant to winning. One being the argument of user vs. off-ball defense, who has the easiest shot releases, and other cheese tactics that just so happen to be related to user input.

Those cheese tactics aren't cheese because they're related to user input.

They're cheese tactics because they're broken mechanics.

As are plenty of cheese tactics that aren't control related (1-3-1, and off-ball only defense, because you're actually NOT controlling your player and letting them do what they "should" instead. But given that this is a video game that involves input, it's a high likelihood that some flaw would involve input in some way.

Blaming cheese tactics on the fact that they are control related in a video game is kind of like blaming bank robberies for involving money or plane crashes for involving height.