Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructure

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

Serious question - has Take Two had any games that had a great multiplayer/online mode with this many people that has gone well? I don't mean one on one type games, I mean games types where there's at least 6 people interacting in the same server/game?



Starting to think this might be a bigger problem than just 2K. If you compare Take Two to other big name developer/publishers, there's very little history/experience with large scale online gaming.

This is actually a good question and not a veiled slight. I don't know. Can't think of many really good games that didn't have rough launches. Can't think of ANY that didn't crash and burn without a beta.

[Boilerbuzz]

Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastr...

GTA 4 and Red Dead Redemption comes to mind.

I don't remember a ton of (Day 1) connectivity issues with multiplayer modes / death matches in those games, on the PS3.

GTA 5 Online was another story tho. That was very problematic.

Nope. They all had issues. And I don't think it's just Take Two. Remember SimCity? That one was epic.

[rtkiii]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

We'll see...doesn't mean they are fixed just that someone worked on them for 8 months. If they are not fixed these two people need to find new jobs.

man this guy is smart and handsome

[MFDOOMBOT]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

I am the lead network architect for a medium sized web hosting company. I actually design the data center infrastructure and have a wealth of knowledge in the matter of server management.

I'm going to create a thread tomorrow to give my two cents on what seems to be the real issue with 2k's history of fail with their online components in their games, but to give a quick overview, they need to completely overhaul their data centers & do not have the budget to do so. This is causing their architecture team to put band-aids on the problem instead of truly fixing their issues.

All a symptom of higher management not understanding that their games have outgrown their current setup. You have to remember that 2K started as a division of cash strapped SEGA at the tail end of their being a hardware company.

In order to truly have an infrastructure to handle the amount of traffic a game like NBA2k produces, they'd need to have their own data center (ala Micro$oft, Apple & Google) They'd have to replace all of the outdated servers, network hardware they currently have (while still maintaining servers for current games)

It's basically a cost issue & the 1 year turnaround for 2k16 doesn't really allow them to do this. Along with a marketing department that would rather have back of the box features (where we get Pharrell being paid to "curate" the soundtrack) than an actual data center that can handle the load.

It's a bad situation for any Sysadmin/Netadmin team, one that won't be fixed as long as millions of people buy the game and the Top Men are turning a profit.

I'll go a bit more in depth when I have a chance to write my thread, but really it comes down to, no real competition to force major changes. Myself & millions of others still pay $60 for have *** products.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

man this guy is smart and handsome

And funny in his bizarro mind. 😊

[Quigley2324]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

It's nice to hear from an expert's perspective on such a glaring issue, but that should make us even more upset with 2k. If their servers aren't built to handle the ever increasing workload for their games, then WHY are they making everything, including what should be offline modes reliant on their online servers?!

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

I am the lead network architect for a medium sized web hosting company. I actually design the data center infrastructure and have a wealth of knowledge in the matter of server management.

I'm going to create a thread tomorrow to give my two cents on what seems to be the real issue with 2k's history of fail with their online components in their games, but to give a quick overview, they need to completely overhaul their data centers & do not have the budget to do so. This is causing their architecture team to put band-aids on the problem instead of truly fixing their issues.

All a symptom of higher management not understanding that their games have outgrown their current setup. You have to remember that 2K started as a division of cash strapped SEGA at the tail end of their being a hardware company.

In order to truly have an infrastructure to handle the amount of traffic a game like NBA2k produces, they'd need to have their own data center (ala Micro$oft, Apple & Google) They'd have to replace all of the outdated servers, network hardware they currently have (while still maintaining servers for current games)

It's basically a cost issue & the 1 year turnaround for 2k16 doesn't really allow them to do this. Along with a marketing department that would rather have back of the box features (where we get Pharrell being paid to "curate" the soundtrack) than an actual data center that can handle the load.

It's a bad situation for any Sysadmin/Netadmin team, one that won't be fixed as long as millions of people buy the game and the Top Men are turning a profit.

I'll go a bit more in depth when I have a chance to write my thread, but really it comes down to, no real competition to force major changes. Myself & millions of others still pay $60 for have *** products.

Looking forward to the write up tomorrow or the following day.

2k MLB series (now out of commission) for the past couple (2011??, 2012??) years I believe offered $1 million dollars for throwing a perfect game. That's $2 million dollars. Would that or could that amount make a noticeable dent in revamping 2K's server issue? What is an educated estimated cost to get it to par?

[Boilerbuzz]

Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastr...

I am the lead network architect for a medium sized web hosting company. I actually design the data center infrastructure and have a wealth of knowledge in the matter of server management.



I'm going to create a thread tomorrow to give my two cents on what seems to be the real issue with 2k's history of fail with their online components in their games, but to give a quick overview, they need to completely overhaul their data centers & do not have the budget to do so. This is causing their architecture team to put band-aids on the problem instead of truly fixing their issues.



All a symptom of higher management not understanding that their games have outgrown their current setup. You have to remember that 2K started as a division of cash strapped SEGA at the tail end of their being a hardware company.



In order to truly have an infrastructure to handle the amount of traffic a game like NBA2k produces, they'd need to have their own data center (ala Micro$oft, Apple & Google) They'd have to replace all of the outdated servers, network hardware they currently have (while still maintaining servers for current games)



It's basically a cost issue & the 1 year turnaround for 2k16 doesn't really allow them to do this. Along with a marketing department that would rather have back of the box features (where we get Pharrell being paid to "curate" the soundtrack) than an actual data center that can handle the load.



It's a bad situation for any Sysadmin/Netadmin team, one that won't be fixed as long as millions of people buy the game and the Top Men are turning a profit.



I'll go a bit more in depth when I have a chance to write my thread, but really it comes down to, no real competition to force major changes. Myself & millions of others still pay $60 for have *** products.

You should send them your resume. I'm sure they never thought to hire someone with a background such as your's.

😙

Seriously though, no one really knows but the people that know. All of this is speculation no more valid than the kid flipping fries. No offense.

But I will give your post a read for sure. I might learn something. You could be right.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

I'd think it's hard for a non-insider to say exactly what the problem could be. We've seen developers of games that have huge online components have issues (Bungie, Dice), games that are developed by multiple developers have initial online issues (Call of Duty series with it's rotating development team), etc. Not sure if I'm mistaken but even online-only games like Titanfall have had their share of issues. But hard to say if the problem is the developer, the producer, or what. GTA5 famously delayed the online portion of their game and still had major online issues for a month+ after it was released. I still read that the Playstation network has issues from time to time, although I'm not sure if the reactions to the issues are merited based on the quality of the network. Then again you have games like Madden or FIFA that don't seem to have the same issues - but I base that on purely anecdotal evidence on my part.

I say all that not to excuse NBA2K's issues; just saying I'd think it's hard for anyone on the outside to understand the complexities of how these various online components interact

[RogerBlack]

Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastr...

I am the lead network architect for a medium sized web hosting company. I actually design the data center infrastructure and have a wealth of knowledge in the matter of server management.



I'm going to create a thread tomorrow to give my two cents on what seems to be the real issue with 2k's history of fail with their online components in their games, but to give a quick overview, they need to completely overhaul their data centers & do not have the budget to do so. This is causing their architecture team to put band-aids on the problem instead of truly fixing their issues.



All a symptom of higher management not understanding that their games have outgrown their current setup. You have to remember that 2K started as a division of cash strapped SEGA at the tail end of their being a hardware company.



In order to truly have an infrastructure to handle the amount of traffic a game like NBA2k produces, they'd need to have their own data center (ala Micro$oft, Apple & Google) They'd have to replace all of the outdated servers, network hardware they currently have (while still maintaining servers for current games)



It's basically a cost issue & the 1 year turnaround for 2k16 doesn't really allow them to do this. Along with a marketing department that would rather have back of the box features (where we get Pharrell being paid to "curate" the soundtrack) than an actual data center that can handle the load.



It's a bad situation for any Sysadmin/Netadmin team, one that won't be fixed as long as millions of people buy the game and the Top Men are turning a profit.



I'll go a bit more in depth when I have a chance to write my thread, but really it comes down to, no real competition to force major changes. Myself & millions of others still pay $60 for have *** products.

Great drop! Thx for the info.

Btw, do you think ISP 'throttling' might play a part also, at all?

There's an (unspoken) war going on right now between major ISPs vs Content Providers / Software Developers.

ie look at Comcast / Netflix as an example.

Comcast was throttling Netflix customers so badly... to the point where Netflix had to finally give in & pay Comcast millions of (extortion?) dollars to end the 'slow down' back in February 2014.

So it's not just 'conspiracy talk'.

http://consumerist.com/2014/02/23/netflix-agrees-to-pay-comcast-to-end-slowdown/

Because if an (unethical) ISP could throttle the Internet connectivity during a video game 'launch window'.... It would wreak havoc on their gamers and we would see similar results we are seeing now despite their 'best efforts' to fix the issues, no?

So I was wondering if you had any insight to include in your thread on this topic.

Or if it doesn't affect anything at all, in regards to 2k's server issues... that would be good to know as well.

Just saying.

[iLLosophy]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

I say all that not to excuse NBA2K's issues; just saying I'd think it's hard for anyone on the outside to understand the complexities of how these various online components interact

In the grand scheme of things, all these companies are doing things that few have ever done before when it comes to the Network Engineering. There's no forums you can post on or sites you can google to find a quick fix solution. All these guys have to be trailblazers and find the solution on their own.

The difference between Take Two and other companies like EA, Activision, Ubisoft, is the latter group has years of experience dealing with online games that had more than just one on one. Not saying every one went off without a hitch, but if BioWare wanted to make a multiplayer game, they could contact a Network Engineering Guru at DICE as a resource as since they are both in the same company.

I think in Take Two's case, it's actually 2K Sports/VC that has the most experience with online multiplayer within the whole company. And they've never really had a flawless online/multiplayer experience for last gen systems - at best case their one on one online multiplayer has been....let's say "fragile." But now we're talking about multiple 5 on 5 courts...

I'm just throwing out hypotheticals here though...

[trj_22487]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

For what it's worth (despite that the website still lists servers as down) I've been able to access every mode (XB1) flawlessly this morning (couldn't last night), played some great online games against a few people....granted I don't have a Kinect so I can't speak for the facescan features, but none of my files are corrupt or gone, all modes working for me and not a single hiccup in the online games I've played (I will also say everyone I've played was a FANTASTIC competitor and played great basketball) This game is flat out awesome, I've literally owned every single game in the series since the Dreamcast launch, played online since NBA 2K1...I personally am not disappointed, this game is worlds better than NBA 2K14 for 360.

I understand the snap-reaction most have to jump down the throat of 2K when the product does not function flawlessly from Day One. We all paid $60 for it, we all anticipated this game for months, and with all modes tied to the servers this year, and the server issues of years past, it is a bit natural to be agitated. But as somebody who remembers clear as day paying $60 for Bulls vs. Blazers on the SNES and getting hundreds of hours of fun out of a two-dimensional game where every player basically looks the same and everybody moves like they are in a pit of quicksand...maybe I hold the bar a little bit lower than others, but this is clearly the best basketball game I've ever played. I hope the server issues do not persist because this should be a very easy game for people to enjoy.

[trj_22487]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

I also stand behind 2KTV, I think it's awesome, I'm so glad they decided to do this. My best friend doesn't really watch basketball or like sports games in general, but he watched the first 2KTV episode with me and it got him super pumped to play the game and made him wish that more games had a weekly broadcast like this....If 2K can get the servers solid, 2K15 will be one of the greatest sports games of all time IMO.

[kadzier]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

I am the lead network architect for a medium sized web hosting company. I actually design the data center infrastructure and have a wealth of knowledge in the matter of server management.

I'm going to create a thread tomorrow to give my two cents on what seems to be the real issue with 2k's history of fail with their online components in their games, but to give a quick overview, they need to completely overhaul their data centers & do not have the budget to do so. This is causing their architecture team to put band-aids on the problem instead of truly fixing their issues.

All a symptom of higher management not understanding that their games have outgrown their current setup. You have to remember that 2K started as a division of cash strapped SEGA at the tail end of their being a hardware company.

In order to truly have an infrastructure to handle the amount of traffic a game like NBA2k produces, they'd need to have their own data center (ala Micro$oft, Apple & Google) They'd have to replace all of the outdated servers, network hardware they currently have (while still maintaining servers for current games)

It's basically a cost issue & the 1 year turnaround for 2k16 doesn't really allow them to do this. Along with a marketing department that would rather have back of the box features (where we get Pharrell being paid to "curate" the soundtrack) than an actual data center that can handle the load.

It's a bad situation for any Sysadmin/Netadmin team, one that won't be fixed as long as millions of people buy the game and the Top Men are turning a profit.

I'll go a bit more in depth when I have a chance to write my thread, but really it comes down to, no real competition to force major changes. Myself & millions of others still pay $60 for have *** products.

I am really looking forward to your thread on this. You sound like you know what you're talking about and make tons of logical sense. 2K wasn't always selling millions of copies yearly of the only digital representation of NBA basketball on the planet. They used to just make yet another basketball game on the dreamcast. It makes total sense that, while their revenue and marketing budgets got bigger, other parts of their company (like the network infrastructure) got left behind in a state of immaturity.

It's a shame, for as much exposure as this game gets, for it to still operate in some ways like a much smaller, more inexperienced game

[jmarcguy]

Re: Top Engineers Spent the Entire NBA 2K15 Dev Cycle Working on Network Infrastructu

Probably the best thing that could happen to make 2k either step up or get out is a solid NBA Live. Either they'll work something out or they'll be done.