This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

[Jano]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

This shot fatigue is very interesting and it's something I didn't even know existed in the game until I opened this thread. But I'm of the mind that body fatigue should handle anything to do with shot fatigue.

This is simulating a whole game here so a player putting up a massive amount of shots and having the offense run through him should experience more "body fatigue." If he has to play defense and have the offense run through him he should get more tired.

Adding in a "shot fatigue" (which is real) on top of body fatigue seems like extra programming, when you could just penalize a guy more if he's going hard on defense + depended on to score on offense as well.

I think if a guy is giving the ball to a player every time down and shooting with him then his fatigue meter should start to take a hit because it requires a LOT to do that. It should have an effect on D and on offense. It seems as if this shot fatigue only effects shooting when in reality every part of a guys game would start to suffer if the team is THAT reliant on his offense.

It's why coaches try to hide (or at least save them from guarding the opposing offensive threat till the latter half of the game) their best offensive player from the other teams best defensive player because they understand that if he has to go hard like that on both ends he'll tire out quick.

Interesting topic for sure I think both sides bring something to the table in regards to this topic. I'm of the camp that believes it all should be in body fatigue. Either way you put it whether a guy is shooting a lot OR playing tough D on the opposing teams best offensive player, he's exerting energy which can contribute to him being less effective on the other side of the court.

Shot fatigue is definitely real but I'm not so sure if I think if I agree with its inclusion when there is already a body fatigue. But hey if it's tuned right and works in accordance to body fatigue then keep it in. It'll add another layer of strategy to the game.

[darkknightrises]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Right, but doesnt this go back to the OP's point about this being the result of body fatigue rather than "shot fatigue?" I've never gotten tired from shooting jumpers in a game, the entire game is what fatigues me. I'd shoot 400-600 jumpers a day, but in a game I think the most jump shots I ever shot was 22.

Yeah I don't think a guy should get tired just because he is shooting the ball a lot. You don't get tired just because you shoot the ball a lot. You get tired because a combination of things like jumping, running passing ect. If I go out side and shoot a ball for 20 minutes straight I am going to get a lot less tired then if I am running around playing d and passing and jumping ect. Also I think it should be a combination of what kind of shots you are getting. How hard are you working for your shot?


If a guy shoots the ball 30 times in a game but a lot of them are with no one on them or just 1 defender they should get a lot less tired then if someone takes 30 shoots but has to work harder for them by splitting double teams, running around screens over double teams ect. The more you run the bigger difference you should see in a guys FG% has running is going to trier you out a lot more then just sampling shooting and when you run a lot it is going to make you legs more tired and when that happens you shot gets flatter.

[Crookid]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Stopped reading after that, clearly someone has never played basketball in real life.

Perhaps you shouldn't have because you sound extremely ignorant. When not taken out of context it makes perfect sense.


Why do the same people defend this game to no end in every thread. The game isn't perfect. Battling everyone who has genuine feedback helps no one.

[Crookid]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Everyone keeps making statements about how real basketball has this, but this is a game.

Before they can simulate some kind of shot fatigue, they first need to pace the game properly on other areas. If they can't pace the game so 12 minute quarters don't end in obscene numbers, then shot fatigue doesn't work. If a player shoots 40 shots at 50% FG then that's 40+ points. If the games are ending at 120-130, 40 points accounts for 30-33% of the team's points. One player scoring 30% of the team's points is definitely realistic. Some games certain players account for 50%.

Or they implement a system where the player gets fatigued the more shots he takes all around with some players able to fight through the tiredness with less hits to their attributes like hardened. The more shots a player gets the more rest hell need allowing there to be some limitation as players will get tired faster, but at least it won't be a crippling mechanic and you can pace him out with rest. Thats way more realistic

[TUSS11]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue does exist. So does dribble fatigue, screen fatigue, box out fatigue, rebound fatigue, pass fatigue, defensive fatigue, etc. etc.

Shooting percentages drop because players get tired, not because they're shooting above their FGA average. Anybody remember Tony Delk dropping 53? Cory Brewer and Terrence Ross both dropping 51 last year?

Here's Delk's highlights:

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BoLVF94FX1U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Herman925]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Wasn't the point of shot fatigue to stop hero ball

Play a more balanced game. Only place I run into shot fatigue is in MYplayer due to my teammates being dimwits.

But online quick match, Myteam, Mygm, and all those other modes I have not experienced it.

When does it activate. Most shots I've taken is 27 with melo. And most of them were contested b- to b+ with a rare excellent. I never really force feed my star in the beginning. Only in the the second half do I start riding my star player.

But there are some games were I would like to ride my superstar if he's hot early. They need to improve what your stamina bar affects instead of adding shot fatigue.

Thats the same thing tho right? Its still effecting the shot.

Stopped reading after that, clearly someone has never played basketball in real life.

Shot fatigue does exist. So does dribble fatigue, screen fatigue, box out fatigue, rebound fatigue, pass fatigue, defensive fatigue, etc. etc.

Shooting percentages drop because players get tired, not because they're shooting above their FGA average. Anybody remember Tony Delk dropping 53? Cory Brewer and Terrence Ross both dropping 51 last year?

Here's Delk's highlights:

Spoiler

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BoLVF94FX1U" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Thanks for the comments on shot fatigue. Not trying to start a fight here but to recognise this mechanic as an either destructive or unrealistic addition to 2k only.

My personal defense to these claims:

1.) Shot fatigue is a general fatigue. So, why can't the energy bar (whatever you call that thing) be the factor? I mean, I play basketball and I was in school teams so I know my shots don't miss without a reason. The point is, I miss shots when I'm fatigued. But NOT MY ARM. It's generally your whole physical condition. It's body fatigue. It's just fatigue.

2.) Continuing from point 1. If one must argue that your arm/leg/boxout blahblahblah gets fatigued. Let us know. Give us a gauge. Give us a clear indication of how the status is for the player and how this will affect the player's performance

3.) Further adding to point 2. Some suggested a gradual but noticeable change in dropping of shot accuracy. Good point. The rant from many of us is for one shot 20 seconds ago, I'm hitting A+ from open shots, but the next transition, I'm hitting D immediately. This is NOT FATIGUE, this is cheating from the AI

4.) The computer (all modes) or my teammates (MyCareer mode) are never affected. Unrealistic

5.) No one. I mean, no one, still, has yet come up with a logical explanation as to why this happened. Let me just humbly, with no offense, ask you to explain this if you think this system is realistic:


I tried tested this out again. So I had a game with myplayer being hit with this shot fatigue cheese (everything D, BAD SHOTS --> again this is unrealistic already, given I shot open shots most of the time). I called 3 consecutive timeouts. My player regained all his energy. He's completely rested now. I assume that after 3 minutes of rest,

1.) My player's arms/legs/torsos/brain are all rested?
2.) The effect should be removed, if the premise is suffice to draw the conclusion that this mechanics is realistic.

I still hit D for open shots.


No offense but I cannot agree with those who thinks this mechanics is not broken and ridiculously punishing with no real-life basis. Fatigue exists, but not in its current state of form in 2k15.

I apologise for my poor English (not my first language), but I appreciate all those comments and please keep them coming.

[Sundown]

This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue is a somewhat simplistic a mechanic for forcing realistic behavior-- taking an extra few wide open shots doesn't suddenly create an onset of fatigue in real life. It's a host of other factors that prevent any player from going off for 40 points regularly.

However, it's better than no mechanic at all, where scrubs are regularly used to chuck and cheese like superstars. It's been requested for years

If you play realistically, you won't see much of an issue. It's when you force the bounds of reality by scoring solely with one player that you do.

I would rather see a mechanic where defensive contests become more effective on a player that had scored in rapid succession or significantly beyond their usual expectancy to simulate the D better anticipating the predictability of the offense. Actually that mechanic should be in for multiple shot attempts by the same player as well as the same type-- and the effect should be compounded if one player is doing one thing constantly.

I'd really like to see shot and touches affecting AI teammates to simulate why you should share the ball-- scoring with one player well beyond their role by taking too many shots and ball hogging in general should cause teammate chemistry to drop. The mechanics for measuring good team play is all in the game already. It just needs to be leveraged in all modes to reflect real basketball dynamics, and could even influence team building in association or even MyTeam.

[Herman925]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue is a somewhat simplistic a mechanic for forcing realistic behavior-- taking an extra few wide open shots doesn't suddenly create an onset of fatigue in real life. It's a host of other factors that prevent any player from going off for 40 points regularly.

However, it's better than no mechanic at all, where scrubs are regularly used to chuck and cheese like superstars. It's been requested for years

If you play realistically, you won't see much of an issue. It's when you force the bounds of reality by scoring solely with one player that you do.

I would rather see a mechanic where defensive contests become more effective on a player that had scored in rapid succession or significantly beyond their usual expectancy to simulate the D better anticipating the predictability of the offense. Actually that mechanic should be in for multiple shot attempts by the same player as well as the same type-- and the effect should be compounded if one player is doing one thing constantly.

I'd really like to see shot and touches affecting AI teammates to simulate why you should share the ball-- scoring with one player well beyond their role by taking too many shots and ball hogging in general should cause teammate chemistry to drop. The mechanics for measuring good team play is all in the game already. It just needs to be leveraged in all modes to reflect real basketball dynamics, and could even influence team building in association or even MyTeam.

It still doesn't make up for that issue I brought up. Encouraging realistic gameplay might be a mission for 2k but this isn't how it should be handed down to the players. We're not being bounded by the game or restricted in order to play realistically (which isn't realistic anyway). We're not contributing our gameplay & exploring to master the game, for 2k to generate so-called realistic statistics at the end of each game. They can do so much other things to make up for realistic FG%.

I think this is just introduced because they're lazy to think of the things we'd find more acceptable and realistic (like what you mentioned - more effect on defence, or players more affected by energy level)

For what I stand, I think this is better to be removed than it's there. I don't want to know that I'm doing well in some game, only knowing that this bxxxsxxxt will kick in to ruin my open shots, just because I keep hitting them so open. I mean WIDE OPEN

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Thats the same thing tho right? Its still effecting the shot.

Not really. If your at 90 % stamina you wouldn't start randomly missing just because you have taken 20 shots. However if you have been running and exerting energy, and your energy is at 65ish shooting would be much more sporadic. It ties shooting to actual fatigue, instead of just lowering probabilites because you have taken "x" amount of shots regardless of your actual stamina. But bigger penalties on stamina need to be made and by the 4th quarter no starter who has played the majority of the minutes should ever recoup back to 100 stamina.

[El_Poopador]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

This shot fatigue is very interesting and it's something I didn't even know existed in the game until I opened this thread. But I'm of the mind that body fatigue should handle anything to do with shot fatigue.

This is simulating a whole game here so a player putting up a massive amount of shots and having the offense run through him should experience more "body fatigue." If he has to play defense and have the offense run through him he should get more tired.

Adding in a "shot fatigue" (which is real) on top of body fatigue seems like extra programming, when you could just penalize a guy more if he's going hard on defense + depended on to score on offense as well.

I think if a guy is giving the ball to a player every time down and shooting with him then his fatigue meter should start to take a hit because it requires a LOT to do that. It should have an effect on D and on offense. It seems as if this shot fatigue only effects shooting when in reality every part of a guys game would start to suffer if the team is THAT reliant on his offense.

It's why coaches try to hide (or at least save them from guarding the opposing offensive threat till the latter half of the game) their best offensive player from the other teams best defensive player because they understand that if he has to go hard like that on both ends he'll tire out quick.

Interesting topic for sure I think both sides bring something to the table in regards to this topic. I'm of the camp that believes it all should be in body fatigue. Either way you put it whether a guy is shooting a lot OR playing tough D on the opposing teams best offensive player, he's exerting energy which can contribute to him being less effective on the other side of the court.

Shot fatigue is definitely real but I'm not so sure if I think if I agree with its inclusion when there is already a body fatigue. But hey if it's tuned right and works in accordance to body fatigue then keep it in. It'll add another layer of strategy to the game.

Thank you for keeping me sane in this thread lol. I read through every comment, and yours was the first to mention the real flaw: every aspect of the player's game should be affected, not just shooting percentage.

If you're too tired to make an open shot, then your defense and dribbling should probably suffer as well. Shot fatigue should not exist in the game solely because it is only affecting a player's shot. It should be tied into overall fatigue, and, if they can implement a system that's similar to injuries 2.0, to each individual body part. If he's missing shots because his legs are tired, he probably shouldn't be able to keep up as well on defense, or jump as high for rebounds either.

Yes, you will get tired taking shot after shot after shot. The problem with how this is implemented in the game is that the user has no way of knowing. In real life, I can feel when my shot is off because I'm getting tired. In the game, there is no indication of shot fatigue. So if my energy bar is still in good shape, I would assume I'm still ok to take a shot without being penalized because I performed well the previous quarter.

[Sundown]

This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

It still doesn't make up for that issue I brought up. Encouraging realistic gameplay might be a mission for 2k but this isn't how it should be handed down to the players. We're not being bounded by the game or restricted in order to play realistically (which isn't realistic anyway). We're not contributing our gameplay & exploring to master the game, for 2k to generate so-called realistic statistics at the end of each game. They can do so much other things to make up for realistic FG%.

I think this is just introduced because they're lazy to think of the things we'd find more acceptable and realistic (like what you mentioned - more effect on defence, or players more affected by energy level)

For what I stand, I think this is better to be removed than it's there. I don't want to know that I'm doing well in some game, only knowing that this bxxxsxxxt will kick in to ruin my open shots, just because I keep hitting them so open. I mean WIDE OPEN

While we agree on what would be a better mechanic (because it's based on realism), I'd rather there be shot fatigue than there isn't. It prevents much more abuse than it restricts realistic play styles on the average. I've never had a real problem with it because I tend to distribute shots as I should.

Now I do agree that the simplistic implementation of shot fatigue is a bad combination with MyCareer, however, where your teammates seem more useless than normal, and the mode encourages hero ball while the core mechanics punish it.

I do think the shot fatigue that comes with repeated contact in the paint is good, however, as that does wear on you-- much more than open jumpshots.

Actually maybe shot fatigue should build up less if the shot is a good one and uncontested, more if it's a bad one, and good shots should not be as heavily affected by shot fatigue in return.

[reptilexcq]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Some of the online games i played yesterday are so lethargic and slow that it feels like dragging in water. Now i know i didn't sub my stars and play them the entire game...but still even in real life if Westbrook and Durant play the entire 48mins in the game, they DON'T MOVE like that...it's so slow. And those that i sub w/ fresh legs, they too don't move as fast as i normally seen them.

[RunN1st]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue is the equivalent to tire wear in racing games. Once you wear them out it's over.

[VegasBartender]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue is real but not in the sense that your arms get tired.

Your shooting percentage starts to drop towards the end of the game because your LEGS are tired. You cant get the same lift you could in the 1st quarter. Your concentration starts to slip a little. I would say its shouldn't be so drastic where we see a ten to twenty percent decrease in made shots though. It should definitely be scaled back. Its very hard to believe some of the games where you shoot 61% in one quarter and shoot 35% the very next quarter.

Elite players shouldn't be effected less by this "fatigue" than other plays for sure. They are elite for a reason.

I think shot fatigue should be gotten rid of ASAP. It should be replaced with overall game fatigue. There should be TWO fatigue meters. Your immediate energy level, and your overall fatigue from the game. This overall game fatigue bar should very slowly go down as the game goes on and depending on how much you smash the turbo button and do others things that cause one to use energy. It should only be slightly regenerated during halftime and in between quarters. Of course your biggest boost should be at halftime but it shouldn't go all the way back up. This game fatigue should effect the players attributes slightly as the game goes on with its biggest effect in the fourth quarter. This is also a great way to separate elite players from the scrubs. Scrubs will be dog tired and slower in the 4th quarter while the elites are more energized and able to take the game over.

This will force players to use turbo only when needed, and jump only when necessary. Constantly swiping for steals is not realistic and should contribute to overall game fatigue.

[threattonature]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

This shot fatigue is very interesting and it's something I didn't even know existed in the game until I opened this thread. But I'm of the mind that body fatigue should handle anything to do with shot fatigue.

This is simulating a whole game here so a player putting up a massive amount of shots and having the offense run through him should experience more "body fatigue." If he has to play defense and have the offense run through him he should get more tired.

Adding in a "shot fatigue" (which is real) on top of body fatigue seems like extra programming, when you could just penalize a guy more if he's going hard on defense + depended on to score on offense as well.

I think if a guy is giving the ball to a player every time down and shooting with him then his fatigue meter should start to take a hit because it requires a LOT to do that. It should have an effect on D and on offense. It seems as if this shot fatigue only effects shooting when in reality every part of a guys game would start to suffer if the team is THAT reliant on his offense.

It's why coaches try to hide (or at least save them from guarding the opposing offensive threat till the latter half of the game) their best offensive player from the other teams best defensive player because they understand that if he has to go hard like that on both ends he'll tire out quick.

Interesting topic for sure I think both sides bring something to the table in regards to this topic. I'm of the camp that believes it all should be in body fatigue. Either way you put it whether a guy is shooting a lot OR playing tough D on the opposing teams best offensive player, he's exerting energy which can contribute to him being less effective on the other side of the court.

Shot fatigue is definitely real but I'm not so sure if I think if I agree with its inclusion when there is already a body fatigue. But hey if it's tuned right and works in accordance to body fatigue then keep it in. It'll add another layer of strategy to the game.

I agree with this in that it should tie into overall fatigue more. Hell I think a lot of things should. I think using turbo and going in a full sprint should tire players out more, playing nonstop aggressive D should probably cause a lot more of a stamina hit, players running through screens, doing a lot of dribble moves, posting up more, and fighting for rebounding position. But I know the majority of users don't want to be forced to manage rotations more and want to be able to run around nonstop and shoot with whoever. There also should be an option to turn shot fatigue on or off or a slider to manage it's affect.