This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

[threattonature]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue is real but not in the sense that your arms get tired.

Your shooting percentage starts to drop towards the end of the game because your LEGS are tired. You cant get the same lift you could in the 1st quarter. Your concentration starts to slip a little. I would say its shouldn't be so drastic where we see a ten to twenty percent decrease in made shots though. It should definitely be scaled back. Its very hard to believe some of the games where you shoot 61% in one quarter and shoot 35% the very next quarter.

Elite players shouldn't be effected less by this "fatigue" than other plays for sure. They are elite for a reason.

I think shot fatigue should be gotten rid of ASAP. It should be replaced with overall game fatigue. There should be TWO fatigue meters. Your immediate energy level, and your overall fatigue from the game. This overall game fatigue bar should very slowly go down as the game goes on and depending on how much you smash the turbo button and do others things that cause one to use energy. It should only be slightly regenerated during halftime and in between quarters. Of course your biggest boost should be at halftime but it shouldn't go all the way back up. This game fatigue should effect the players attributes slightly as the game goes on with its biggest effect in the fourth quarter. This is also a great way to separate elite players from the scrubs. Scrubs will be dog tired and slower in the 4th quarter while the elites are more energized and able to take the game over.

This will force players to use turbo only when needed, and jump only when necessary. Constantly swiping for steals is not realistic and should contribute to overall game fatigue.

Love this suggestion as well. I would be all for two different meters. One that can be replenished with a little time on the bench and another that can only see slight bumps. Even better if tied to progressive fatigue.

[burter]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I was trying to figure out how to google first half vs second half shot % in the nba. But I'm working from home so I can't really get into it. Maybe someone can look at this link and figure things out lol.

http://stats.nba.com/shotcharts.html the 2 bottom pics on the left show % in the 4th quarter I believe for each team.

http://i.imgur.com/Ok9GYlW.jpg this is just a picture of second half stats.

Now I don't know if this stuff will prove a point, just trying to see if any of these might help people's points for or against.

[mythreesons]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I haven't read the entire thread, but one thing that is big that seems to be overlooked is player rhythm. Rhythm is big in this year's game. If you are on fire and for whatever reason you miss a few shots, you'd better find something to get yourself back in rhythm - defense, steals, blocking shots. Continually trying to force the issue will result in your being totally outta rhythm and frustrated. You can call all of the timeouts in the world until your player is totally rested, but he'll still be out of rhythm.


If you miss two or three wide open shots with B+ quality, then it's time to attack the basket, or better yet give the ball up and affect the game in another area.

[J_Posse]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I haven't read the entire thread, but one thing that is big that seems to be overlooked is player rhythm. Rhythm is big in this year's game. If you are on fire and for whatever reason you miss a few shots, you'd better find something to get yourself back in rhythm - defense, steals, blocking shots. Continually trying to force the issue will result in your being totally outta rhythm and frustrated. You can call all of the timeouts in the world until your player is totally rested, but he'll still be out of rhythm.


If you miss two or three wide open shots with B+ quality, then it's time to attack the basket, or better yet give the ball up and affect the game in another area.

Exactly, I've already experienced this a few times with Danny Green. I'll miss a few shots early on (usually from 3) and will be cold with him the remainder of the game. Its rather annoying because I can't seem to get Green's shot timing down, so it compounds the issue, but realistic because he's extremely streaky in real life.

from Spurs Nation/Bills Backer HQ using Tapatalk

[Sundown]

This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Shot fatigue is real but not in the sense that your arms get tired.

Your shooting percentage starts to drop towards the end of the game because your LEGS are tired. You cant get the same lift you could in the 1st quarter. Your concentration starts to slip a little. I would say its shouldn't be so drastic where we see a ten to twenty percent decrease in made shots though. It should definitely be scaled back. Its very hard to believe some of the games where you shoot 61% in one quarter and shoot 35% the very next quarter.

Elite players shouldn't be effected less by this "fatigue" than other plays for sure. They are elite for a reason.

I think shot fatigue should be gotten rid of ASAP. It should be replaced with overall game fatigue. There should be TWO fatigue meters. Your immediate energy level, and your overall fatigue from the game. This overall game fatigue bar should very slowly go down as the game goes on and depending on how much you smash the turbo button and do others things that cause one to use energy. It should only be slightly regenerated during halftime and in between quarters. Of course your biggest boost should be at halftime but it shouldn't go all the way back up. This game fatigue should effect the players attributes slightly as the game goes on with its biggest effect in the fourth quarter. This is also a great way to separate elite players from the scrubs. Scrubs will be dog tired and slower in the 4th quarter while the elites are more energized and able to take the game over.

This will force players to use turbo only when needed, and jump only when necessary. Constantly swiping for steals is not realistic and should contribute to overall game fatigue.

Most of the fatigue you describe is already in the game-- stamina behaves this way even if it isn't two meters or numbers. Except it doesn't make sense that elite players should have better fatigue-- there are plenty of role players that play defense for big minutes and are energy guys. Just using normal fatigue to control everything either makes them too good offensively or undermines what they bring if you lower their stamina just to make them shoot worse late in game -- when the problem here isn't late game scoring, it's too much scoring by scrubs too consistently.

Perhaps shot fatigue should be modified and renamed Offensive Mental Fatigue or just Offensive Focus. It's often said that your mental focus is what you lose alongside you being tired physically. This would be a bit more realistic in penalizing a player for doing much more beyond his normal role. And in either case, it should not come into play as much for high percentage and easy looks.

Heck, there can even be a Defensive Focus rating to compliment for defensive players. There are guys who tend to make that big defensive play needed late, and who can lock down even if they wouldn't know what to do to make a play on the other end.

You can even outright replace the Closer badge (or have it compliment this rating). In fact, you can build a lot around Offensive/Defensive Focus, including rhythm and momentum:

Fatigue affects D/O Focus in addition to Stamina.

D/O Focus is the Stamina of the mental side of the game. It modifies ratings that have a mental/will component in their category: Shooting, Shot IQ, Help defense, hustle, pass accuracy.

Momentum swings affect D/O Focus as well as Stamina. Poor play on one end or another affects Focus of the team on that end.

Rhythm also modifies D/O Focus.

So essentially, most of the current system is preserved, except that this Focus attribute is the gate keeper to the mental intangibles, just as Stamina is the gate keeper to all the physical attributes (and currently mental ones as well).

And O/D Focus will be the differentiator between role players, scrubs, and stars on their respective sides of the court. Or even vets vs. rookies.

[VegasBartender]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Most of the fatigue you describe is already in the game-- stamina behaves this way even if it isn't two meters or numbers. Except it doesn't make sense that elite players should have better fatigue-- there are plenty of role players that play defense for big minutes and are energy guys. Just using normal fatigue to control everything either makes them too good offensively or undermines what they bring if you lower their stamina just to make them shoot worse late in game -- when the problem here isn't late game scoring, it's too much scoring by scrubs too consistently.

Perhaps shot fatigue should be modified and renamed Offensive Mental Fatigue or just Offensive Focus. It's often said that your mental focus is what you lose alongside you being tired physically. This would be a bit more realistic in penalizing a player for doing much more beyond his normal role. And in either case, it should not come into play as much for high percentage and easy looks.

Heck, there can even be a Defensive Focus rating to compliment for defensive players. There are guys who tend to make that big defensive play needed late, and who can lock down even if they wouldn't know what to do to make a play on the other end.

You can even outright replace the Closer badge (or have it compliment this rating). In fact, you can build a lot around Offensive/Defensive Focus, including rhythm and momentum:

Fatigue affects D/O Focus in addition to Stamina.

D/O Focus is the Stamina of the mental side of the game. It modifies ratings that have a mental/will component in their category: Shooting, Shot IQ, Help defense, hustle, pass accuracy.

Momentum swings affect D/O Focus as well as Stamina. Poor play on one end or another affects Focus of the team on that end.

Rhythm also modifies D/O Focus.

So essentially, most of the current system is preserved, except that this Focus attribute is the gate keeper to the mental intangibles, just as Stamina is the gate keeper to all the physical attributes (and currently mental ones as well).

And O/D Focus will be the differentiator between role players, scrubs, and stars on their respective sides of the court. Or even vets vs. rookies.

This is exactly my point, elite players are not going to have the same mental fatigue as the scrubs. Thats what makes them elite. The end of the game they are the guys who can handle the situation and should start to separate themselves from the pack drastically. This is how the start players take over the games in the fourth quarter, they dont get mentally drained, they work on repetition, and they dont get as tired as the scrubs.

[dpower15]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I like the idea of shot fatigue, but not the implementation. There needs to be both an attribute (either a new one altogether or link it to consistency) and a slider for shot fatigue. Everything else has a slider, why not shot fatigue? Adding the slider would give us the ability to completely eliminate if we want, tune it down, etc


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[aimlessgun]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Except it doesn't make sense that elite players should have better fatigue-- there are plenty of role players that play defense for big minutes and are energy guys. Just using normal fatigue to control everything either makes them too good offensively or undermines what they bring if you lower their stamina just to make them shoot worse late in game -- when the problem here isn't late game scoring, it's too much scoring by scrubs too consistently.

Isn't the thing that prevents too much scoring by scrubs the fact that they're scrubs? Putting up 40 shots with some high energy bench guy will result in worse results than putting up 40 shots with Durant.

I also think its important to draw a difference between types of 'realistic' limitation: social/people limitations and physical limitations. The game should try to simulate physical limits.

But the biggest cause of the 'unrealistic' stats comes from ignoring all the social/people limits that are extremely important IRL but can be ignored in a videogame. Taking 40 shots in a game is much more limited by your coach and teammates getting angry at you than by any sort of shot fatigue suddenly making your jumper terrible.

Lack of social/people limitations is the no1 cause of unrealistic stats and 2k should not try to police those with artificial on-court mechanics. If they want to really try and develop a complex well thought out social/people system that would be great, but otherwise let it go IMO.

[Ballhardorgetbeat]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I like the idea of shot fatigue, but not the implementation. There needs to be both an attribute (either a new one altogether or link it to consistency) and a slider for shot fatigue. Everything else has a slider, why not shot fatigue? Adding the slider would give us the ability to completely eliminate if we want, tune it down, etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2k just needs to go back to the original shooting system. You guys do realize that this game isn't fun anymore. I know that is a little subjective but every game now is low scoring which consist of more missed than made shots. I would love to have a game like stephn curry had at the garden or melos 61 point game or Kobe's 81 point game. That is exciting and fun. The way 2k did things this yr took the enjoyment and fun out of it.

Crazy how they just broke a game completely when it didn't need much fixing. Defense needed work but other than dunks in traffic, offense game didn't even need to be touched

[Dirk5049ers]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I've played basketball all my life and I can't recall shot fatigue really being an issue. Sure I've been tired, but if anything, my defense was affected. If I was hitting my shots in a game, then the stroke usually lasted, esp if I got good looks. I mean these are pro athletes. Imagine Lebron saying he missed the game winner because of "shot fatigue". I understand going thru cold spells, which happens, but what we have here seems cheap, so I'm forced to stay away from the original "hot" shooter, since he'll begin missing easy shots.

[Guard-ian]

This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I love shot fatigue... Stop abusing teams and players and play them as their real counterparts play... It is that easy.

Even with shot fatigue I can score 50+ with Durant (12 mins quarters) from time to time... But not in a consistant basis... That's fantastic! That's realistic!

I always try to play sim (basketball, no vudeogames) and this NBA 2K15 (with its gripes of course) is a dream come true.

Cheers! ;-)

[El_Poopador]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

I love shot fatigue... Stop abusing teams and players and play them as their real counterparts play... It is that easy.

Cheers! ;-)

It takes some of the dynamic games out of the equation, though. Some games, a certain player can just feel it all game. With the current system, you will never have a game like Kobe's 81 point showing, because once he takes a certain amount of shots, he just won't be able to make anything.

There absolutely needs to be a balance, so you can't do something like that every game, and just play with one player all the time, but the current system isn't the way to do it.

[Guard-ian]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

It takes some of the dynamic games out of the equation, though. Some games, a certain player can just feel it all game. With the current system, you will never have a game like Kobe's 81 point showing, because once he takes a certain amount of shots, he just won't be able to make anything.



There absolutely needs to be a balance, so you can't do something like that every game, and just play with one player all the time, but the current system isn't the way to do it.

I understand your point, but tell me, how many times a player has scored 80+ in the last 15 years? And the last 5? The last 3 years?

We are talking about 1 case in many many thousands of games... It doesn't happen too often, does it? In my book that's an anomaly... It doesn't compensate. If eliminating shot fatigue converts the game in a cheese fest party again (as 2k14 next gen was) I am sorry but not, I love 2K15 as it is, I want to simulate basketball, and scores 60 with your favorite superstar in a costant basis, that's not basketball...

Cheers!

[Sublime12089]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Does anybody have a good handle/explanation for how both shot and "body" fatigue and stamina work in the game currently?

When does it activate? What does it do? Is it tied to some rating like stamina or consistency?

It seems that would be more productive than arguing about who played D3 college ball.

[Hotobu]

Re: This 'Shot fatigue' thing is the most ridiculous mechanics for 2k15

Does anybody have a good handle/explanation for how both shot and "body" fatigue and stamina work in the game currently?

When does it activate? What does it do? Is it tied to some rating like stamina or consistency?

It seems that would be more productive than arguing about who played D3 college ball.

Just look at the white bar under your player. When it's low your guy gets noticeably more sluggish, and shot fatigue seems to kick in hard right when you take that 25th shot.

As for the topic I like the idea, but feel it needs to be implemented better. If a guy is hot the shot fatigue should be less, also it should take into account how you're getting your shots. a catch and shoot shouldn't count the same as a drive to the lane after breaking down your man with dribble moves for 8 seconds. Also a star at the end of the game should suffer a bit less from it.