NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

[darkknightrises]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

thats because he's half way through the season. Best time for screens would be at the end of the season. I can do a few if you guys want?

I'll try different settings. I'm pretty free this evening so I don't mind.

I'm thinking,

Player Progression - 10
In season Training - 75

Player Progression - 25
In season Training - 70

Player Progression - 50
In season Training - 65

Player Progression - 50
In season Training - 50

Player Progression - 75
In season Training - 40

Player Progression - 90
In season Training - 25

Oh how do you know that is not in the offseason those photos? Yeah that would be great if you could do that.

[Chin2112]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Oh how do you know that is not in the offseason those photos? Yeah that would be great if you could do that.

Bottom right hand corner it's got his w/l record

[darkknightrises]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Bottom right hand corner it's got his w/l record

Oh wow I didn't noticed that. While that killed my enthusiasm lol.

[Chin2112]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

His screens aren't bad though, problem is that we will never get a superstar like Kobe or Duncan still playing at their top level well into their 30s

Tbh you won't even see many players over 80 at 33 or older. That is completely wrong. I'm not asking for everyone to be over 80 and it always to work when you give a 28 year old a long expensive contract but come on. There has to be a bit of give and take

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

wow 14/16 guys 30 or older didn't get worse you are on to something!

I think you'll find, though, with player progression set that low and with draft class quality slider at 50, your leaegue will have very few real stars and no true superstars by year 8.

What happens is your best stars are all from the players modeled after ral players, and as they age and retire, you won't have as many A and B+ potential players coming into the league, and the ones you do will peak lower. This cascades as an effect throughout the league so you will also see, in general, weaker and older replacement level startes and backups, and fewer young players breaking in the nab starting jobs. So by the time the generation of current real life players age out, the overall quality of the league is lower.

I don't think the CPU team players benefit at all from training, so they rely on the progression slider.

One way around this is to really juice up the draft class slider in alternating years or so, up to say 65, and then back down to low 50's other years. But the thing is draft classes that are not hand made don't, in my opinion, have enough variability. By that I mean, once you juice up the slider to 65, you won't have many if any players in the first round lower than overall high 60's. Some may peak there but most will at least become low to mid 70's, so they can stay on a roster. That's not enough risk for first round drafting, especially late.

I'd like to see the default draft class generator allow for more variability in player quality and a higher range of possible boom bust outcomes in both rounds.

Again, the work around fix is to vary the draft class slider year by year.

And if you don't want your user team to get too uber against the league, you need to pull that training slider down to 45 or even lower. That's because the CPU doesn't use training. You might also consider not using training camp, because if you draft and find a late first round B- potential player, a couple of years of giving him Untapped Potential will make him a start in the league. Do that with a couple of guys and you could have building block players well above what anyone else in the league has, especially if you don't juice up the league talent pool as I've described here.

[Stevenson92]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

2 k , please...

[vtcrb]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

thats because he's half way through the season. Best time for screens would be at the end of the season. I can do a few if you guys want?

I'll try different settings. I'm pretty free this evening so I don't mind.

I'm thinking,

Player Progression - 10
In season Training - 75

Player Progression - 25
In season Training - 70

Player Progression - 50
In season Training - 65

Player Progression - 50
In season Training - 50

Player Progression - 75
In season Training - 40

Player Progression - 90
In season Training - 25

Looking forward to see how this turned out.

[Chin2112]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Looking forward to see how this turned out.

After seeing this comment from LorenzoDC

"And if you don't want your user team to get too uber against the league, you need to pull that training slider down to 45 or even lower. That's because the CPU doesn't use training. You might also consider not using training camp, because if you draft and find a late first round B- potential player, a couple of years of giving him Untapped Potential will make him a start in the league. Do that with a couple of guys and you could have building block players well above what anyone else in the league has, especially if you don't juice up the league talent pool as I've described here."


I might just leave the training slider at 10 and try from there.

[geisterhome]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

really hope that 2k will fix this.

[DonWuan]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Cpu players are getting something during the season with all the +/- I'm seeing.

I will sim to the off season tonight and post pictures. But having three many players in year 4 still being productive is good. Dont completely understand that need for off season as everyone will naturally take a bump. Tony Parker at 85 was surprising to me.

I have draft classes at 40 and see plenty of stars and very few superstars.

[madmax52277]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

What I'm thinking, to be a superstar,are to remain your overall, takes hard training.

And hard training, = progress. So if your making draft prospect's, and the players that you feel should make superstar standard, give them hard work badges.

And for the 28-30 players should be given also. to keep there skills, IQ, and ability up.

So badges + training = quicker progress.
Training 55-60
Progress 35-45

I can't wait for 2k fixing.

[ronyell]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

i posted this idea about 2 years ago in a thread:

being an association head; there are some "MUSTS" to this science of progression/regression that only make sense IMO. the potential rating in this game should determine at what rate these things increase & possibly for how long but SHOULD NOT determine an overall rating cap or anything else IMO.

i HATE seeing players still hammering home highlight dunks at the age of 34 well into my association & seeing other players not make the natural progressions that most players make in the NBA.

i will layout what i think the parameters SHOULD be in this area & i SINCERELY hope that this post/thread stays "bumped" & that the neccessary eyes & powers-that-be see it; because to me it, it is a simple formula to some easy fixes in association/career modes.

Here is my layout of natural rating/tendency progression/digression in chronological order: (green = progession / red = digression) & the words "MAY" & "WILL" are used expressly for a purpose

18 to 23 years old:
inside & close shot ratings - MAY progress 1-2 point yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
mid shot rating - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
3 point shot rating - MAY progress 1 point yearly (5 point total maximum increase)
free throw shot rating - MAY progress 1 point yearly (5 point total maximum increase)
on-ball defense rating - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
offensive & defensive awareness ratings - WILL progress 1 - 4 points yearly (20 point total maximum increase)
strength rating - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
post offense & defense ratings - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
rebounding rating (forwards & centers only) - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
consistency rating - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)


24 to 29 years old:
3 point shot rating - WILL progress 1 point yearly (5 point total maximum increase)
free throw shot rating - MAY progress 1 point yearly (5 point total maximum increase)
offensive & defensive awareness ratings -MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
post offense & defense ratings - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
consistency rating - MAY progress 1 - 4 points yearly (20 point total maximum increase)
post fadeaway rating - MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)


30 to 33 years old:
3 point shot rating - MAY progress 1 point yearly (5 point total maximum increase)
free throw shot rating - MAY progress 1 point yearly (5 point total maximum increase)
offensive & defensive awareness ratings -MAY progress 1 point yearly (3 point total maximum increase)
post fadeaway rating -MAY progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
on-ball defense rating - WILL regress 1 - 3 points yearly (9 point total maximum decrease)
dunk & standing dunk rating - WILL regress 1 - 4 points yearly (12 point total maximum decrease)
stamina rating - MAY regress 1 - 4 points yearly (12 point total maximum decrease)
speed rating - MAY regress 1 - 3 points yearly (9 point total maximum decrease)
quickness rating - WILL regress 1 - 3 points yearly (9 point total maximum decrease)
vertical rating - WILL regress 1 - 5 points yearly (15 point total maximum decrease)
mid shooting & spot-up tendencies - WILL progress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum increase)
drive-the-lane, dunk & touches tendencies - WILL regress 1 - 3 points yearly (12 point total maximum decrease)
MAY DEVELOPE "SPOT-UP SHOOTER" sig skill


34 years old & up:
on-ball defense rating - WILL regress 1 - 3 points yearly (9 point total maximum decrease)
dunk & standing dunk rating - WILL regress 1 - 4 points yearly (12 point total maximum decrease)
stamina rating - WILL regress 1 - 4 points yearly (12 point total maximum decrease)
speed rating - WILL regress 1 - 2 points yearly (6 point total maximum decrease)
quickness rating - WILL regress 1 - 2 points yearly (6 point total maximum decrease)
vertical rating - WILL regress 1 - 2 points yearly (6 point total maximum decrease)
drive-the-lane, dunk & touches tendencies -WILL regress 1 - 2 points yearly (10 point total maximum decrease)


now i do NOT think that ALL players should undergo the same EXACT progression areas BUT these are the guidlines for what should & shouldn't change. & these are the timeframes that i think most players undergo the changes.

I believe that these are THE ONLY ratings that should EVER change & the ONLY time frames in which they should change once a player is drafted into the NBA. are ther occasional exceptions in real life?... of course; but this is the way for 2k to emulate progression & decline IMO.

i believe that tendencies should evolve based on the current roster &/or coach of a team but that is a whole nother post & probably far more complicated to implement; yet the tendencies that i posted above should progress & digress regardless.

well there are my thoughts. feel free to chime in & if you guys are in agreeance; PLEASE keep this thread bumped!

and after reading all of the MyLeague hyp & notes about progression & regression i thought that this would be year that we got it but... now this...

[JA Money14]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Don, those pictures are seriously unbelievable. Korver in my tests was in the low 60s with mid 70s shooting ratings by that age. Please please please keep them coming if we can find a way to at least limit the issue or have some sort of work-around I would be in love.

[jeremym480]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Sorry, I haven't read through the whole thread and I'm not 100% up-to-date on what all has been tested.

I was wondering though is there a point at in the offseason which regression hits? If so, could you move all of the older players to 27, advance past that stage, then adjust them back to their actual age? And if that did work would they still regress some, just not as much? I was just thinking if that's possible, then that may be less time consuming than adjusting ratings.

[JA Money14]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I've done some testing of my own. It's a very mixed bag, but hopefully the game will be playable with the right mix of MYLeague progression/training sliders until we get a fix from 2K.

There are some weird occurrences that I'll get into, but let's look at some pictures from year 2, the progression phase.

I'm currently in year 4.

My testing was done with our SimWorld roster, making it a little different than Don's finding as well as specific to those of us that use that roster.



In this picture, you can see some odd things happening. In our roster, ratings are obviously lower than the default 2K roster. That being said, a 68 is not that bad for a 31 year old. Trevor Ariza lost FOUR points here, that is a bit much, I would prefer the decline to start at -1 or -2 at ages 28-32, then the drop off becoming more significant after that, going into the -4's.

However this is okay, this caught my eye mainly because of the drop off in James Harden's OVR. He is only 27, as I previously thought, the drop off didn't start until 28. However, after further investigation, I see that he missed 58 games that season, meaning 2K took that into account! I had no idea that was a thing and while it's an exciting proposition, until they fix the core regression, it cannot be implemented properly.

Harden gained a point back the following year and now sits at Age 28, 90 OVR. Ariza dropped 4 more points the next year and sits as the Rockets WORST player at a 64 OVR at the age of only 32. While he does maintain his shooting ratings to be stay an effective player, the CPU looks at OVR more than anything to decide linups, meaning Trevor Ariza will not play a single game this season, pending injuries. (Although I will say 2K did a great job allowing the CPU AI to vary the lineups based on production and value) This is unacceptable to me.

Moving on...



This picture initially made me happy, however it is misleading to see Parker maintain a 79 OVR at 34 because he was already 32 to start the regression. Had he been 27 at the beginning of the cycle, he would have suffered a similar fate to Trevor Ariza, although not as harsh due to his high Potential rating. Parker maintains production at only a -3 and I am okay with this one, but like I said, it is still skewed due to his starting age.

If you look lower, you see Danny Green loses 3 OVR points and he's not even 30 yet. Most of his athletic attributes took -6 and -7 shots (harsh), however his shooting stayed largely the same, meaning he will be a good shooter even with a lowered OVR. The problem again, lies with the amount of regression at the age of 29! To me, if Green were to lose ANY OVR points here (which I don't think he should, barring injury) it should only be -1. The game is basically telling us that Danny Green will be out of the league in 2 more years...

Year 4 attribute losses remained the same. Parker went to New York after Tim, Pop, and Gino left. He lost 3 more points and sits at a 76 at the age of 35, a good sign for me. That's very good regression (Again, he started the cycle 3 years later, meaning that he would be a 67 OVR had he begun to regress at the age of 28, which isn't impossible for 35 year old TP, but I think he'll be closer to the 76 when he's that old.) Green, like Ariza, has lost 6 OVR points and 12-16 physical attribute points in a mere 2 years. 30 year old Danny Green is the 10th man in the Spurs rotation and has a 69 ovr, meaning he will be a 63 in 2 more years, out of the league.



Okay, here is where it starts to get really noticable.

Maybe I'm alone in thinking Andrew Bogut and Andre Iguodala will not become role players next season. Bogut turns 31 and loses FIVE OVR points. Iggy loses 3, which isn't terrible, but he started late in the cycle, and lost 3 the year before that too, same as Bogut. I cannot predict the future, and crazier things have happened, but I just don't think a quality starting NBA center for one of the leagues best teams, will lose 10 ovr points in 2 years, at the age of 31, no less.

Both players are still on the Warriors in year 4, both with mid 60's ratings, along with Nene (Age 34, 66 OVR), David Lee (Age 34, 63 OVR), and Shaun Livingston (Age 32: 61 Ovr)

Those guys are all good NBA players that 2K is saying will be as good as Ognjen Kuzmic before they hit 35?

I have more pictures, but I think you get the picture.

Amongst other players that have regressed so much that they are basically useless at a young age...

Corey Brewer: Age 31, 63.
Wilson Chandler: Age 30, 66.
Al Horford (Hawks All-Star): Age 31, 68.
Rodney Stuckey: Age 31, 58.
Roy Hibbert: Age 29, 69.
Josh Smith: Age 32, 64.

I know there are some good cases, but most of them are because of the thing I mentioned with Tony Parker. Marc Gasol still maintains an 81 OVR at 32, Carmelo Anthony is a 91 at age 33, but they did not start the steep decline until they were already older than 28.

I think they need to move the age up for these types of players. I am okay with variablility though, If a guy flutters out at 30 and can't find a roster, I'm perfectly fine with that! For example, Matt Barnes, Kyle Korver, Jose Calderon, and Tony Allen cannot get a roster spot at the ages of 36 and older in this test, which is fine. That is very old and they will retire as free agents. The same way many guys do. Players that can retire on their own terms are few and far between, some guys like Tracy McGrady who can't retire on their own terms happen as well, but most of the times stars can pull a roster spot and a 70 or above rating well into their 30s. (Kobe, Garnett, Pierce, Duncan)

In year 4 of MyLeague, it seems like teams are catching on to the regression system and MOST of the NBA teams don't have any players older than 30 or 31. Those that do have those guys on huge contracts or they are the best player. Players do not become expendable in the later years. Some do, yes, but not the names I've mentioned. It needs a fix for sure, but I'm going to keep testing to see how the game reacts with extreme slider values.