NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

[SavoyPrime]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

It's disappointing that we still haven't got official word on if this will be fixed or not smh

[rspencer86]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I just ran a sim with everything at default, because I had to see for myself what's going on.

During the season, there is a lot of variation in how player ratings increase/decrease. You can see very old players get bumps of 3-5 points. You can also see them lose the same. To me, this looks good.

During the offseason "player progression" stage is where everyone has focused their complaints, and clearly it is not ideal. Nearly every (can't say all... I saw a few 30+ y.o. guys get a small bump) player over 27 experiences a ratings decrease. The older they are, the larger the increase, with a small bit of variation. It's a bit too uniform/linear for my liking, but it is not something I see as a game-killer.

I believe that folks get caught up a bit too much in the ratings, and aren't worried about performance, which should be the true measure of how the system is working. Here is just a running list of things I noted over a simulation of several years into the future, starting with Year 2:

2015-2016 Season

• 32-year-old Chris Bosh (85 OVR) finishes with 20.8 PPG, his best since 2009-10, his last year with the Raps.
• 31-year-old LeBron James, 98 OVR, averages 24-8-5. It's his lowest PPG average since his rookie season.
• 37-year-old Dirk Nowitski (83 overall) logs just 29.1 MPG, lowest since his rookie season, but still has a productive year, averaging 17.5 PPG and 6.4 RPG.
• 38-year-old Manu Ginobili (77 overall) logs a pretty standard year for him: 24 MPG, 13 PPG, 3.6 APG.
• Paul Pierce, 38 years old (74 OVR) has an injury-plauged year for the Wizards. He plays in 61 games, logging 17.7 MPG and averaging just 7.6 PPG.
• Mike Dunleavy, 35 years old (73 OVR) basically disappears for the Bulls. He plays in just 12 games in mop-up duty, logging only 0.3 MPG and scoring just 5 total points.
• Retirements: Nazr Mohammed (38), Paul Pierce (38), Vince Carter (39), Jason Terry (38), Shawn Marion (38), Jamal Crawford (36), Carlos Boozer (34), Manu Ginobili (38), Nick Collison (35), Matt Bonner (36)

2016-2017 Season

• Amar'e Stoudemire, 34 years old (70 OVR) is now with Golden State, but barely plays. 4.8 MPG, 1.2 PPG.
• 34-year-old Nene (68 OVR) has also faded away quickly. He's down to 2.7 MPG and 0.9 PPG.
• 35-year-old Jameer Nelson (67 OVR) went from playing in 78 games at 27.8 minutes per two season ago, to just 3 games played @ 4.3 MPG this season.
• Dwyane Wade, 35 years old (81 OVR) logs an injury-riddled season. He plays just 27 games, but averages a respectable 32 MPG, 12.3 PPG, 8.1 APG in those games.
• Dirk is still going strong at 38 (77 OVR). He plays 27 MPG, scoring 14.1 PPG and grabbing 5.9 boards per game.
• Kobe, now 38 (79 OVR), is clinging on. He plays all 82 games at 26.7 minutes per game. He scored 12.1 PPG and averaged 3.8 APG with the Bucks.
• Tyler Hansbrough, 31 years old (67 OVR) is basically an afterthought. He played in 9 games and did not score a single point.
• Retirements: Dirk (38), Reggie Evans (37), Mike Dunleavy (36)

2017-2018 Season

• Gerald Green, 32 (67 OVR) is pretty much done. Eight games played, 0 points total. This is two seasons after averaging double-digit PPG.
• Channing Frye, 34 (67 OVR) has a similar fate. Four games played, no points. Two seasons ago, he played 20 MPG and averaged 9.2 PPG.
• Same for Mario Chalmers, 31 (67 OVR). Over the last two seasons, he's played 133 total minutes and scored 18 total points.
• Luol Deng, 33 (70 OVR) is also among the walking dead. 4.4 MPG, 0.2 PPG. Ouch.
• 33-year-old Lebron (97 OVR) is starting to slip a bit. 20.7 PPG and 6.8 RPG in 78 games.

Basically, as CWSapp said, the superstars have enough talent to weather the severe drops in offseason, so they end up having realistic careers. The role players, though, drop out of sight way too fast. It's hard for a role type player to have much of a chance of being in the league past 32 years old.

[darkknightrises]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Lol he has "The cure!"



Dude I said it before and people got mad in here, and I'll say it again, people get their panties in a bunch when they see their favorite players overall drop a few points. l I'm not saying it's a non-issue, but I am saying this has been insanely overblown with people saying it makes Myleague and Mygm "unplayable" etc. I think it could be toned down a bit, but the original statement that everyone drops like 5 points a year after the age of 28 is utter BS. Happy Gaming.

lol at people that say this is not an issue or that it is over blow. It is the biggest problem in the game. All it takes is one simulation to see that it is a big problem. There is no way that 2k didn't see it. This is the reason I am starting to think more and more about skipping sports games and only getting them ever few years or so. I don't have has much time to play games has I used to being older and having to work and sports games semed to have more big problems now then they used to. Just about ever sports game now days has a big problem in franchise mode that either kills the mode or that doesn't kill the mode but is still a major issue that you either have to weight a month or 2 to be fixed by a patch or that ends up not even being fixed at all.


This has nothing to do with your favorite player getting worse. When 90-95% of guys at 30 get worse it is a big big problem. When most players that decline get worse by 4-5 points and there are hardly any players that get worse by just 1-2 points. When you have even sever guys getting worse at 25-26 this is a problem. With the way it is right now you cant have any guys playing at an all star level after like 30-31. Now I am not saying that ever guy should have a long great carrier like a kobe, Duncan ect but with the way things are right now there is no changes of having guys like that. In the nba there are pletty of guys who are 30-34 that even if they are not an all star can still give good minutes either off the bench or starting. With the way it is right now you cant even have guys at like 33,34 that can give u 20 minutes off the bench and make 6-7 points and a few rebounds or maybe block a shoot or 2. The only way you can look at this and say it is not an big issue is if you don't follow the nba. If you follow the nba all it takes is one simulation to see just how bad this is. There is no way that this is over blow at all.

[JRxPHANTOM]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Lol he has "The cure!"



Dude I said it before and people got mad in here, and I'll say it again, people get their panties in a bunch when they see their favorite players overall drop a few points. l I'm not saying it's a non-issue, but I am saying this has been insanely overblown with people saying it makes Myleague and Mygm "unplayable" etc. I think it could be toned down a bit, but the original statement that everyone drops like 5 points a year after the age of 28 is utter BS. Happy Gaming.

Shady, with all due respect, I could care less if my favorite player is dropping points. That's not the issue. It just has to be toned down to where -4 and -5 points only happen when a player is significantly aged.

[JRxPHANTOM]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

It's disappointing that we still haven't got official word on if this will be fixed or not smh

Yeah like I said earlier, the whole xbox one patch delay certainly won't help our cause for another patch.

[joosegoose]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I think the bigger issue is that the NBA is full of quality starters/role players that are over the age of 28 but when they decrease 4 and 5 points each year on a CONSISTENT BASIS, they simply disappear.

This is exactly my problem with the system 100%. Once a guy becomes a bench player, it means he only has 2 years left of playing at all. For guys who peak as role players, it means they're done by the age of 30. It's neither a good representation of the NBA nor fun.

[MikeJ2021]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I've ran numerous tests with custom and 2K rosters and I've come to the conclusion that this isn't really a game-killing type bug, but it does kill it for those who use custom rosters.

When using 2K's roster, I don't get varied results and most times they're not even close to what others have been saying. For example, not sure what roster CWSapp used but L. Aldridge went from 83 to 81. In most of my sims using 2K's roster L. Aldridge went from 88 to 87. In some he actually increased to 90.

Also using 2K's roster, some role-players actually stay the same or increase. I've simmed four years and say Kyle Korver stay in the 77-78 range for the first three and then decline by 3 to start the fourth. JJ Reddick increased from 78 to 79 and then stayed that way until the 4th year in which he declined by 2.

This all tells me that I don't think it's a bug. It's just a differing of philosophies and something that may need to be tuned down, which is why (and I hope I'm wrong) I don't think it'll be fixed in a patch. I'm just basing my opinion on other games like Madden 25 and MLB 14, both who have similar issues and nothing was done to correct them.

If this doesn't get fixed in this year's game then I hope they come up with a better scale next year everybody can enjoy the game with any roster they choose to use, not just 2K's roster.

[xcvnvgn]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Yes that is one Option. Another Option is do Decrease Ages. I am still thinking of how i will proceed with MYLeague.

[annan]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I've ran numerous tests with custom and 2K rosters and I've come to the conclusion that this isn't really a game-killing type bug, but it does kill it for those who use custom rosters.

When using 2K's roster, I don't get varied results and most times they're not even close to what others have been saying. For example, not sure what roster CWSapp used but L. Aldridge went from 83 to 81. In most of my sims using 2K's roster L. Aldridge went from 88 to 87. In some he actually increased to 90.

Also using 2K's roster, some role-players actually stay the same or increase. I've simmed four years and say Kyle Korver stay in the 77-78 range for the first three and then decline by 3 to start the fourth. JJ Reddick increased from 78 to 79 and then stayed that way until the 4th year in which he declined by 2.

This all tells me that I don't think it's a bug. It's just a differing of philosophies and something that may need to be tuned down, which is why (and I hope I'm wrong) I don't think it'll be fixed in a patch. I'm just basing my opinion on other games like Madden 25 and MLB 14, both who have similar issues and nothing was done to correct them.

If this doesn't get fixed in this year's game then I hope they come up with a better scale next year everybody can enjoy the game with any roster they choose to use, not just 2K's roster.

How are the default 2k rosters? If this is true and the default rosters are ok, is buy this game tomorrow.

[darkknightrises]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

How are the default 2k rosters? If this is true and the default rosters are ok, is buy this game tomorrow.

No it is not true. Now I guess it is up to the person if this is a game killer or not but I have done sever simulations and all with 2k rosters not one with a custom roster and it is a big problem. With using 2k rosters in sever similations by year 3 the amount of players in the league in the game compared to the real life amount at the age of 30 or older went down by about 40%. In sever simulations with 2k rosters only 3 guys at 30 or older didn't get worse and most guys 30-31 not only get worse but by most of the time by 4-6 points. In sever simulations with 2k rosters even a few guys went down some at the age of 25-26. In sever simulations there would be teams where like 9 guys on one team got worse in just one seasons. Now I have not tested with custom roster to see if things are better or worse so I cant say on that but with 2k rosters it is a big big problem so know using 2k rosters dose not fix this at all.

[MikeJ2021]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

No it is not true. Now I guess it is up to the person if this is a game killer or not but I have done sever simulations and all with 2k rosters not one with a custom roster and it is a big problem. With using 2k rosters in sever similations by year 3 the amount of players in the league in the game compared to the real life amount at the age of 30 or older went down by about 40%. In sever simulations with 2k rosters only 3 guys at 30 or older didn't get worse and most guys 30-31 not only get worse but by most of the time by 4-6 points. In sever simulations with 2k rosters even a few guys went down some at the age of 25-26. In sever simulations there would be teams where like 9 guys on one team got worse in just one seasons. Now I have not tested with custom roster to see if things are better or worse so I cant say on that but with 2k rosters it is a big big problem so know using 2k rosters dose not fix this at all.

I have to disagree with you there on the whole "only 3 guys at 30 or older didn't get worse" claim. That's not what happened in my sims. I also want to clarify that I'm not saying this isn't a problem. Just that results are varied when you use 2K's roster. There's no clear cut "everyone over 28 drops by 4 or 5" rule that applies.

I'm also not saying that 2K's roster fixes the issue, it just prolong it. You have maybe 4 to 5 seasons before things get crazy. With custom rosters that have ratings scaled down and potentials scaled down, you have maybe 1 or 2 seasons. Like someone else mentioned, you can also lessen the issue if you play MyLeague, increase Team Chemistry by 100 and lower Team Chemistry difficulty by 0. It'll go from a 4 to 5 drop to a 2 to 3 drop.

[darkknightrises]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I have to disagree with you there on the whole "only 3 guys at 30 or older didn't get worse" claim. That's not what happened in my sims. I also want to clarify that I'm not saying this isn't a problem. Just that results are varied when you use 2K's roster. There's no clear cut "everyone over 28 drops by 4 or 5" rule that applies.

I'm also not saying that 2K's roster fixes the issue, it just prolong it. You have maybe 4 to 5 seasons before things get crazy. With custom rosters that have ratings scaled down and potentials scaled down, you have maybe 1 or 2 seasons. Like someone else mentioned, you can also lessen the issue if you play MyLeague, increase Team Chemistry by 100 and lower Team Chemistry difficulty by 0. It'll go from a 4 to 5 drop to a 2 to 3 drop.

While I have done sever simulations with the player progression slider at different numbers and I have not seen a difference at all. Not ever one at 28 or over gets worse but quit a few do. While after doing a lot of simulations I would say that players who are 30-31 have about a 95% changes to get worse and not only that but about 80% of players who are just 30-31 go down by 4-6 points. Some simulations look worse then others. But In most simulations the only guys at 30-31 that have not got worse are james, anthely and CP3 ever other guy 30-31 goes down by at least 1 point. I have had sever simulations where LA has went down by a point or 2 even after having a great season and he is like 28. From what you said it sounds like you are looking at players after the season and before they get to the player progression screen in offseason. Are you sure that you are looking at player progression after the nba draft and after free aget singing?

[xghfgjf]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

Yes that is one Option. Another Option is do Decrease Ages. I am still thinking of how i will proceed with MYLeague.

[Pizarro24]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I've ran numerous tests with custom and 2K rosters and I've come to the conclusion that this isn't really a game-killing type bug, but it does kill it for those who use custom rosters.

When using 2K's roster, I don't get varied results and most times they're not even close to what others have been saying. For example, not sure what roster CWSapp used but L. Aldridge went from 83 to 81. In most of my sims using 2K's roster L. Aldridge went from 88 to 87. In some he actually increased to 90.

Also using 2K's roster, some role-players actually stay the same or increase. I've simmed four years and say Kyle Korver stay in the 77-78 range for the first three and then decline by 3 to start the fourth. JJ Reddick increased from 78 to 79 and then stayed that way until the 4th year in which he declined by 2.

This all tells me that I don't think it's a bug. It's just a differing of philosophies and something that may need to be tuned down, which is why (and I hope I'm wrong) I don't think it'll be fixed in a patch. I'm just basing my opinion on other games like Madden 25 and MLB 14, both who have similar issues and nothing was done to correct them.

If this doesn't get fixed in this year's game then I hope they come up with a better scale next year everybody can enjoy the game with any roster they choose to use, not just 2K's roster.

I think you run your tests with "Player Progression" at 50.

I have done this too, but the problem is (atleast in my opinion), a couple of years into your MyLeague, you will have too many Superstars (90+ Overalls) with the slider at default.
But if you decrease the slider, let´s say to 45, then you will see Players regress too fast, but more importantly, not realistic (the IQ and Shooting attributes regress instead of the Athletic attributes).

The reason why it´s not game breaking is because you can manually edit everything in MyLeague. so you can edit the attributes for every player over 28 years. A lot of work to do though, but makes your MyLeague more enjoyable.

[JRxPHANTOM]

Re: NBA 2k15 Player Regression in MYLeague Testing

I think you run your tests with "Player Progression" at 50.

I have done this too, but the problem is (atleast in my opinion), a couple of years into your MyLeague, you will have too many Superstars (90+ Overalls) with the slider at default.
But if you decrease the slider, let´s say to 45, then you will see Players regress too fast, but more importantly, not realistic (the IQ and Shooting attributes regress instead of the Athletic attributes).

The reason why it´s not game breaking is because you can manually edit everything in MyLeague. so you can edit the attributes for every player over 28 years. A lot of work to do though, but makes your MyLeague more enjoyable.

Actually, i'm using player progression at 50 and it's still terrible. That's actually where all my tests come from.