Why is it "okay" to cheat?

[nova91]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I start typing a well thought out answer and all I think is the f'er hooked me again. The GD troll got me again.

Here's where you're wrong, until they make defending it 95% as effective as your 100% effective zig zagging it's overpowering. While you CAN defend it, the ease at which you can perform zig zag is at a much favoring ratio.

The other notion, is there's nothing that deters you from zig zagging. It's not like it wears your player down to the point where you zig zag at a substantially slower rate. That's also where the exploit comes in. Exploit doesn't just mean they did it now they're cheaters. There's misuse and abuse that add into that. If you're a multi-time a game offender you're definitely exploiting a vulnerability in the game.

Just because something is overpowered doesn't make it an exploit. Do like fighting game developers do and nerf the move; decrease the effectiveness and increase the stamina penalty, but don't overdo as to where the penalty is ridiculous or the move is almost 100% ineffective, because by you guys logic that would also be an exploit, but it favors the defense instead.

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[RodionMaZ]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Why won't it be. Im basically saying for things that you suppose to work for (mycareer) is basically saying I can buy myself good or to 99 or 89 what ever it is to top of on every game. First day I got to the park when the game came out I saw top ratings they didn't go through the season that fast. I just feel this era of game is money hungry. Just like dlc on release date.

I have to disagree. It's free time vs extra money issue. I don't have time to level to 99 even one character (by playing 14x7=98 games in career), let alone three (pg, sf, c, for example to have different types of fun in the park). So if I want to spend some cash and the game allows me to do it, then devs are doing me a favor. And I'm okay with the fact that properly leveled characters will have an advantage over mine (in badges). I can deal with the badges, but I can't deal with maxed players when mine has overall in his 70-ies or so and I have no way to get him above that other than wasting time in offline mode.

[2ksinceday1]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Can someone please tell me exactly
what Defensive assist strength and Boxout Assist strength is??? I know its suppose to help guide you in some way but I never really understood what exactly turning it from 0 to 100 or 100 to 0 is suppose to do? Is it just a placebo effect or does it really matter. What are the games default settings for these?

[BellSKA]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Just because something is overpowered doesn't make it an exploit. Do like fighting game developers do and nerf the move; decrease the effectiveness and increase the stamina penalty, but don't overdo as to where the penalty is ridiculous or the move is almost 100% ineffective, because by you guys logic that would also be an exploit, but it favors the defense instead.

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This was never my point or the basis of my argument. He wanted a direct correlation between exploition and the game itself. I was merely using zig zag and it's use/ misuse as my example.

...........I type and delete so much because I know where your responses are headed. I was answering someone elses question. You are more than welcome to read/ re-read this entire thread to answer your own post.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

The main issue is this:


does it feel like real basketball. To me, like I said, I've played long enough to where I'm sure I have cheesy strategies because I know what works. I'm not gonna stop doing what works. Even when I "house rule" it (vs the computer, for instance), I find that I lose a lot of effectiveness because... that's how I play.


I encountered many times when I played in a league, back when people played in leagues, where people called me out for playing cheesy... for reaching too much ( I don't, but I did more than they thought I should) or 'abusing Shaq' back when he was in the NBA. I took a step back and looked at it. I was having fun, though. I was playing bball.


I was talking to one of my friends and he was talking about how some people he knew were too busy to ball because they were working on their exploits. haha. It's like what practicing setting picks in the paint and crossing over 100x in a row? That's really sad to me.


Point being, there are always going to be things that don't line up with reality because it's a game, but it should still feel like you're playing bball, even at the highest competitive level. If they ever got it right... I'd be playing at the stage all of the time, taking my Ls and losing vc if it came to that. But whatever is going on there is truly an abomination.


I don't blame people for playing that way. I just think they're bad at the game, so in a way they have to.


At the very least, even if it isn't that much 'like bball' each move must have a hard counter that is almost as easy to execute. So if someone keeps doing x, you can be like oh I see that coming... Y. That's the key to balancing games, I think.


-Smak

[wiserbk]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

You guys are criticizing a near perfect system in a mode where everyone has insane ratings and nobody is playing team defense and its a playground. Like I've said before everything CAN be countered. Your mistakes on defense are just magnifies because of the reason i listed above, the the actual system is great. It's a sandbox it's giving you total control on defense and offense, asking developers to restrict that because youre having trouble with awkward movements like zig zag or weird baseline drives is a mistake. Sometimes I feel like some of you guys don't want. BBall game that you control but you really want a glorified coach mode that does everything for you and makes it LOOK like what you see on TV.

[RodionMaZ]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

You guys are criticizing a near perfect system in a mode where everyone has insane ratings and nobody is playing team defense and its a playground. Like I've said before everything CAN be countered. Your mistakes on defense are just magnifies because of the reason i listed above, the the actual system is great. It's a sandbox it's giving you total control on defense and offense, asking developers to restrict that because youre having trouble with awkward movements like zig zag or weird baseline drives is a mistake.

If it's way easier to abuse some of the offense moves that are really hard to defend, then the system is far from perfect.

[wiserbk]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

It's not that the moves themselves are exploits. It's just a lot of people are not as good at defense as they think they are. The "cheesers" are guys that just decides rather than doing something complicated, time consuming or skill intensive to attack bad defense, they will just go straight in zig zag or baseline because it's the fastest way to score on bad defense. Shortest distance between two points is a straight line and they are doing that literally lol. Play someone in quick match when they try these tactics and defend them correctly (and they can be defended correctly, rather easily once you get the hang of it) you lforce them to try plays and a pick n roll game or they quit. Now this situation magnifies is seems hard to deal with because in the park modes everyone's attributes are so high and your teammates generally won't have your back like they are suppose to. But there's not much wrong with the system itself.

I challenge anyone to articulate what is exactly wrong with the system that is preventing them from guarding these so called cheeses and how it should be fixed. What you will hear is people wanting a way defense can be easier and played FOR them. Or banning people unjustly like suggested earlier. Notice how people are complaining about these issues in the Park and Rec Center modes and not the actual games. It's because in the actual game you can switch of the defender guarding ball and elect to just go for offball steals and blocks. A lot of people just aren't as good on defense as they think they. I know it will make people mad to hear it, but it's the truth.

[wiserbk]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

And I'm not taking this stance to sound cocky, all these so called cheeses forced me to go back to the drawing board myself. But after practicing, studying how the cpu plays defense as well as watching real nba games. I saw where I was just plain defending wrong. And learning not to jam the stick until the right moment and how to use the triggers and the R stick quick steps takes MEGA practice. But that's the direction we need to go Mega practice, not complaining about something that actually works rather amazingly in approximating basketball.

[RodionMaZ]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

wiserbk, your way of accusing random people of not knowing how to defend will lead to abandoning conversations with you.

My 6'8" SF can guard any position in MyPark. Usually, I have no problem guarding against sim-opponents (even if I fail to prevent them from scoring). But when I have to beat the screen-under-the-rim cheesing centers, double dribbling and zig-zagging PGs and stepback-to-corner-3Pt SGs, then I feel that I'm playing videogame, not basketball. And I don't like it. It's a waste of my limited playtime when I'm matched against such type of players.

If I had an option to play against sim-players only, I would be sooo happy.

[wiserbk]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

The onus will be on people to get their defense up or these are the type of tactics we will see. You might be able to guard these fine, but the 100 people your opponent played before you really struggled with it so that's going to be their go to tactic. Thus making it unrealistic for you, but the culprit os the bad defense being played by the 100 people not the guys trying to take advantage of it to win. I know full well some people will take offense but I'm not in the business of sugar coating stuff. You might find that if they create this sim only experience that you speak of. You may fall to a move most have trouble guarding like a step back or sick isomotion and YOU will be accused of cheesing because they can't guard it. I think the route 2k should go, which is practical is to stop just hinting and giving basic tutorials for defense controls. Have Full blown tutorial with different scenerios and explain explicitly how to guard things. To my knowledge 2k has never done that. That would elevate the game to the sim levels we all want. Not banning people and nerfing move after move.

[HowDareI]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Not banning people and nerfing move after move.

But at the end of the day you aren't allowed to set moving screens, which is what people do to help get the zig zaggers open when you're playing good D. And sitting under the rim setting a screen while not being able to be boxed out, it is just unrealistic, period.

If they need to nerf anything it's still defense. If my defense is maxed my guy should never move as slow as he does sometimes.
There's no penalty to someone when they do a stepback or just stopping to change to another direction on OFFENSE, but on DEFENSE (without a ball being dribbled so fundamentally you're faster) your guy is stuck in animations where he's still moving to the other side or backwards.
A team of 3 all abusing them mechanics, getting shot after shot off offensive boards, is exploiting. It's not impossible to beat, but like we're saying it's also not basketball and shouldn't have to be so hard to counter.

I know my defense is on point, I personally can guard just about anyone. But honestly my friends aren't always as good as me and it's just not fair seeing people abuse them when I know they're playing good, fundamental, smart basketball.

[zxfzfg]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

i mean its not really cheating. sure its cheesy, but its not cheating. you have to remember that people can play the game how they please and theres a lot of people who just play to win using gimmicky stuff or theres a lot of casuals who play who dont even understand how basketball is really played.