Shot % Tweaks needed?

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. The debate over what tweaks should be made is a pretty clear indicator that it would be a mistake to make any significant changes... so any updates going forward will be extremely subtle.

That being said, an update went out Saturday morning. Here's what I changed:

• Biggest change... heavily contested contact layups should be dropping less frequently
• Wide open 3's (nobody within 12 feet) with excellent shooters were given a tiny boost
• Wide open middies (with 75+ rated shooters) were bumped up by about 3%
• The frequency of dunking in traffic was decreased a little bit, dunk attempts will be converted to layups

Thanks for this . My biggest issues was the contested layups but I haven't played since you made those changes. Should get some games in soon

[Beluba]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

This makes sense as to why shooting felt better, but there still needs to be a tweak to contested shots. They're dropping a lot more.
I love the wide open with great shooters thing, but when I close out from 2 feet away and he drops a deep 3 in my face is just crushing, and it's very consistent.

Yeah, I didn't touch contested 3s at all. I can make a tweak there as well if you guys all feel it's a problem. Seems like most people are seeing plenty of bricks on well contested 3s though, so it's a little scary to hit them even harder. It's also possible that what you're perceiving as a well contested 3, is actually considered open as far as the game is concerned. That would change how I go about fixing your issue.

[sPORKaccione33]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. The debate over what tweaks should be made is a pretty clear indicator that it would be a mistake to make any significant changes... so any updates going forward will be extremely subtle.

That being said, an update went out Saturday morning. Here's what I changed:

• Biggest change... heavily contested contact layups should be dropping less frequently
• Wide open 3's (nobody within 12 feet) with excellent shooters were given a tiny boost
• Wide open middies (with 75+ rated shooters) were bumped up by about 3%
• The frequency of dunking in traffic was decreased a little bit, dunk attempts will be converted to layups

What constitutes an excellent shooter for the WIDE open 3s? I consistently average below 30% 3pt shooting with the Utah Jazz never shooting contested shots and only shooting with Alec Burks, Rodney Hood (Prince of Threes though you couldn't tell), and Gordon Hayward. Something is wrong here when I only shoot wide open and I consistently see 1/5 in the stat sheet. Missing 2-3 straight wide open threes when hot and shooting from hotspots shouldn't be happening? Makes playing only with my Utah Jazz difficult and frustrating.

What constitutes an "excellent shooter" for these wide open 3 %s you've adjusted? Thanks for looking for feedback from us!

[Hopsin]

Shot % Tweaks needed?

Yeah, I didn't touch contested 3s at all. I can make a tweak there as well if you guys all feel it's a problem. Seems like most people are seeing plenty of bricks on well contested 3s though, so it's a little scary to hit them even harder. It's also possible that what you're perceiving as a well contested 3, is actually considered open as far as the game is concerned. That would change how I go about fixing your issue.

Maybe it's just park, but as far as the shots I'm speaking about are usually close close-outs. I'm using a player with premier lockdown aswell.
Playing park I've seen these type of 3's with hands in the face (Shane battier style) drop pretty consistently. I can't speak for everyone though.

Sidenote- before a few tweaks ago it was almost shunned to take a contested 3, now it seems praised. Even I hit shots like these at times.

[bcruise]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Yeah, I didn't touch contested 3s at all. I can make a tweak there as well if you guys all feel it's a problem. Seems like most people are seeing plenty of bricks on well contested 3s though, so it's a little scary to hit them even harder. It's also possible that what you're perceiving as a well contested 3, is actually considered open as far as the game is concerned. That would change how I go about fixing your issue.

On that note, I have a question about determining "wide open" or not. I know there's a colored bar that appears beneath your controlled defender this year when in close proximity to your man, and I'm assuming, based on when how it grows/shrinks, that it's telling you whether you properly defended the shot. Is it safe to assume that, when that bar is full green, that the shot was fully contested and the % lowered accordingly? To go a step further, do the colors of that bar correspond to the letter grades that a user gets when they attempt a shot? As in, if the bar was green would it basically be the same as a D or F shot in terms of the chance of it going in?

Thanks in advance. And thanks for the heads up about the tweaks - I too would like to know if this was online only or offline.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. The debate over what tweaks should be made is a pretty clear indicator that it would be a mistake to make any significant changes... so any updates going forward will be extremely subtle.

That being said, an update went out Saturday morning. Here's what I changed:

• Biggest change... heavily contested contact layups should be dropping less frequently
• Wide open 3's (nobody within 12 feet) with excellent shooters were given a tiny boost
• Wide open middies (with 75+ rated shooters) were bumped up by about 3%
• The frequency of dunking in traffic was decreased a little bit, dunk attempts will be converted to layups

Thanks man.

especially on the contested. layups...

QQ, If possible, can you elaborate on what is considered a "heavy contest" at the rim?

[OG_Almighty]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

It sounds like Pro-Am is balanced differently from PNO? Does anyone else get that impression?

Yes, the OVR player ratings are lowered in Pro-Am Arena play but not so much in Walk-On. I have no idea why.

Due to the lowered skills, a lot of the shooting, playmaking, etc. feels handicapped to make things more balanced I guess. I assume PNO doesn't experience this since you're playing against real NBA players and the stats aren't nerfed for balance.

[Sundown]

Shot % Tweaks needed?

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. The debate over what tweaks should be made is a pretty clear indicator that it would be a mistake to make any significant changes... so any updates going forward will be extremely subtle.

That being said, an update went out Saturday morning. Here's what I changed:

• Biggest change... heavily contested contact layups should be dropping less frequently
• Wide open 3's (nobody within 12 feet) with excellent shooters were given a tiny boost
• Wide open middies (with 75+ rated shooters) were bumped up by about 3%
• The frequency of dunking in traffic was decreased a little bit, dunk attempts will be converted to layups

Thanks Mike!

Is there a chance we could see stationary stepbacks and step shots get a healthy boost (especially when open) for the players that can do them (or have high ratings and relevant badges)? Seems that for the most part most agree (as far as I can tell from those mentioning it in this thread) that they could use a boost. To recap, a player like Curry gets a C/C- on average on stationary open step shots, even in practice. This penalty seems much heavier than all other forms of dribbling before shooting, and a simple pump fake resets this major penalty.

Would the logic to handle this be something that would have to be patched?

Does the boost to wide open shots with great shooters help significantly with step shots (without boosting spot up players that shouldn't shoot them well)?

Again, thanks for detailing the changes. I like the direction they're going.

[MeloNYK7]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Mike, I have been playing the game since Saturday and definitely noticed the difference. I'm hitting wide open threes n middle range shots at a much more consistent rate. Much better n a lot more fun. Encourages ball movement. Contested shots still bricking so we good on that end too.

[Jrocc23]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Yeah, I didn't touch contested 3s at all. I can make a tweak there as well if you guys all feel it's a problem. Seems like most people are seeing plenty of bricks on well contested 3s though, so it's a little scary to hit them even harder. It's also possible that what you're perceiving as a well contested 3, is actually considered open as far as the game is concerned. That would change how I go about fixing your issue.

Thanks for the change. Especially for the contested layups. For me, contested 3s do not go in consistently at all when I played the Park. Haven't played Park with this shooting change though.

I did notice 3pt shooting was a bit easier. Even got a few perfect yesterday. Middies still feel the same which has always been pretty easy. Just wish the CPUs midrange success could be slightly decreased, the amount of and-1 success and nothing to do with shot % but fouls could be lowered.

Like someone mentioned, I wish it was a way to just go with the %s 2K11 w/ a raise in the layup success. But the shooting system is probably very different.

[circuit]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Yeah, I didn't touch contested 3s at all. I can make a tweak there as well if you guys all feel it's a problem. Seems like most people are seeing plenty of bricks on well contested 3s though, so it's a little scary to hit them even harder. It's also possible that what you're perceiving as a well contested 3, is actually considered open as far as the game is concerned. That would change how I go about fixing your issue.

can we focus on Blocks now, needs to be toned down if your not a shot blocker especially on dunks

[Beluba]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

What constitutes an excellent shooter for the WIDE open 3s? I consistently average below 30% 3pt shooting with the Utah Jazz never shooting contested shots and only shooting with Alec Burks, Rodney Hood (Prince of Threes though you couldn't tell), and Gordon Hayward. Something is wrong here when I only shoot wide open and I consistently see 1/5 in the stat sheet. Missing 2-3 straight wide open threes when hot and shooting from hotspots shouldn't be happening? Makes playing only with my Utah Jazz difficult and frustrating.

What constitutes an "excellent shooter" for these wide open 3 %s you've adjusted? Thanks for looking for feedback from us!

I don't want to give away how our shot heuristics work, but basically, anybody above a 75 rating would see a slight increase in wide open 3's since Saturday. The higher the rating, the bigger the increase. But again, the boost was pretty conservative.

[Beluba]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Maybe it's just park, but as far as the shots I'm speaking about are usually close close-outs. I'm using a player with premier lockdown aswell.
Playing park I've seen these type of 3's with hands in the face (Shane battier style) drop pretty consistently. I can't speak for everyone though.

Sidenote- before a few tweaks ago it was almost shunned to take a contested 3, now it seems praised. Even I hit shots like these at times.

One thing that changed across the board with perimeter defense this year, is that we stress the importance of being near the shooter at the start of his shot more so than at release... at least compared to prior years. We did this because we felt it better represented the real-life effects of defenders on perimeter shooters and to prevent users from cheating off shooters and relying on closeouts as their primary means to shut down 3's. So my advice is to do your best to stay within one arms length of good perimeter shooters at all times... late closeouts just aren't going to be that effective for you.

[Beluba]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Thanks man.

especially on the contested. layups...

QQ, If possible, can you elaborate on what is considered a "heavy contest" at the rim?

The change I made only impacts contact shots. Across the board, you should see those drop less. But you can tell by the animation, if the collision looks heavy (defender noticeably knocking the shooter off balance for example), the shot % gets dropped much lower than if the collision looks light (shooter is getting hit by the defender but his layup looks relatively undisturbed.)

[Beluba]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Thanks Mike!

Is there a chance we could see stationary stepbacks and step shots get a healthy boost (especially when open) for the players that can do them (or have high ratings and relevant badges)? Seems that for the most part most agree (as far as I can tell from those mentioning it in this thread) that they could use a boost. To recap, a player like Curry gets a C/C- on average on stationary open step shots, even in practice. This penalty seems much heavier than all other forms of dribbling before shooting, and a simple pump fake resets this major penalty.

Would the logic to handle this be something that would have to be patched?

Does the boost to wide open shots with great shooters help significantly with step shots (without boosting spot up players that shouldn't shoot them well)?

Again, thanks for detailing the changes. I like the direction they're going.

This one's tricky, Sundown. Currently, standing stepback jumpers are treated the same as other "skill" shots like spin jumpers and pull-up J's. So to fix zig-zagging pull-ups, all of these shots took a pretty big hit. I need to put standing stepbacks in a separate category to be able to boost JUST those shot types, so it's something that we'd have to address in the patch. I'll investigate that today.