No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

[MarkWilliam]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

How do we all feel about the CPUs actual shot selection (Superstar)?

I query this because, if the CPUs shooting sliders come down to bring their %s a bit lower, will it alter the choice of shots they take?

I would think not. But if it did, then Mike would be altering a lot more than just shot success.....

I'm having games where both teams shoot over 50% and scoring like 130-125 (Nuggets/AI vs OKC/me). That's too high for both teams IMO considering who the teams are.

If the AI success is adjusted, I wouldn't want me to be winning that game 125-100 - both need to come down.

Had a similar result using the Cavs (both over 120 again). Superstar level.

I've played a few games on All-Star and the AI seems to be closer to where I'd want them (statistically) but of course, I'm not..... looking for the happy medium.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

My post was aimed at the removal of preset slider options, and not the vision of the game. There used to be sim sliders now there are not. There is a difference between a 50 shooting slider and one that is 40 or 45. If Beluba says that a 50 this year is equivalent to a 40 last year, then a person used to playing HOF default would have the same issue, and I would be making the exact same post disclosing the change.

I have no qualms with the game, and I am not complaining about the game at all. Simply stating that playing on a 50 shooting slider is different then playing on a 40, and it would be nice to be able to use the sim setting that was in 2k for years.

If he doesnt change it, then that is fine with me. But there shouldn't be an issue with pointing out the change and difference that the old simulation preset sliders are gone and its easier to shoot on a 50 as opposed to a 40 shooting slider.

My apologies for offending you and promoting you to defend your post.

It was the game designers message that astonished me. He basically offered to redesign the slider templates based on this threads feedback - literally asked what we want and he will deliver.

That kind of forthright almost naive assertion to assist in recaliberating the sliders is what sparked my shock. If it's just a matter of offering back the sub difficulty presets: that doesn't concern of bother me but to tweak the slider defaults for online and offline play based on this threads narrow feedback... ya that's what provoked my alarm.

To yall who do offer your suggestions: please be wise with your feedback knowing the game designer is putting his power in your hands to shape the game enviornment which will impact the entire community for the forseable future.

Beluba did mention why they had their deliberate intent to do away with the sub difficulty presets and there may be more reasons that we are not privy to. Someone giving you the power to do things will still come with responsibility and price and this is not something I want to be responsible for so I'm not offering feedback on where any single default attribute should be for online or offline.

I've always respect Online for Desult 50s in any Sports title and Offline or in online GM / League modes is where you can tailor the game. This is why I can understand the want to have the presets put back but it's not like we can't edit the sliders as it is.

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[shando14]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

2k16 Sim sliders with the Superstar setting plays a solid game of basketball.


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[Beluba]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

Are you able to expand on what those inherent differences are for User vs CPU shooting success, because if one uses Real Shooting % then I would imagine that would alter the equation.

What I'm saying is that our AI, while vastly improved, is not nearly as dynamic as the intelligence (or lack of intelligence) of our entire user base. Users might find things that the AI defense has trouble guarding, or vice versa, the AI might be much more adept than a human user at stopping certain tactics. Tuning the game based solely on CPU VS CPU has the same shortcomings and sometimes it's even more pronounced. I've seen the CPU offense abuse the defensive AI with certain plays or strategies repeatedly leading to gross deviations from real life stats. An example from past 2Ks is that there was an issue with play initiation that caused the offensive AI to milk too much time off the shot clock before getting into a play forcing them to have to throw up a garbage bailout 3 just to prevent a violation. You get enough bugs like that on either side of the ball and you end up having to overcompensate here or there in your tuning just to get the stats to look right.

Now on the user side, you throw in shot timing/aiming as well as a near infinite number of playstyles and you can see how there's no one size fits all slider set that makes the game play perfectly for everyone out of the box.

So basically what I'm saying is... the User and CPU sliders might need to be mismatched in certain areas to really put the game on fair ground, at least, to accommodate the majority of our users.

[antdoggydogg]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

What I'm saying is that our AI, while vastly improved, is not nearly as dynamic as the intelligence (or lack of intelligence) of our entire user base. Users might find things that the AI defense has trouble guarding, or vice versa, the AI might be much more adept than a human user at stopping certain tactics. Tuning the game based solely on CPU VS CPU has the same shortcomings and sometimes it's even more pronounced. I've seen the CPU offense abuse the defensive AI with certain plays or strategies repeatedly leading to gross deviations from real life stats. An example from past 2Ks is that there was an issue with play initiation that caused the offensive AI to milk too much time off the shot clock before getting into a play forcing them to have to throw up a garbage bailout 3 just to prevent a violation. You get enough bugs like that on either side of the ball and you end up having to overcompensate here or there in your tuning just to get the stats to look right.

Now on the user side, you throw in shot timing/aiming as well as a near infinite number of playstyles and you can see how there's no one size fits all slider set that makes the game play perfectly for everyone out of the box.

So basically what I'm saying is... the User and CPU sliders might need to be mismatched in certain areas to really put the game on fair ground, at least, to accommodate the majority of our users.

That makes sense. I guess I wouldn't mind the CPU being getting point boosts in some of their shooting attributes, sort of how it currently is on superstar/hof sliders but set to the 2K16 sim shooting:

user/cpu:
inside 40/45
close 40/45
midrange 45/48
3point 47/50

Depends what everyone else thinks.

[BluFu]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

Yea for anyone saying the problem is we need to get better before playing on HOF, that really isn't the issue. Its most apparent in MyCareer when the CPU lights up your AI controlled teammates no matter what. I've begun my career winless and I kind of want to put the rest of my season on pause till the sliders get readjusted because my teammates are getting punished hardcore.

I remember Beluba talking about how on-ball defensive contests gives a slight boost in a 5v5 setting as opposed to off-ball defensive contests. Since you can't control your other team mates, I'd like to see at least some of that same boost given to AI teammates.

[goodoilmachine11]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

When all the shooting boosts were moved from our hidden tunables into the sliders to drive difficulties, it made us have to reset the slider values and retune from scratch. So last year's settings will not give the same results this year.

That said, the majority opinion does seem to be that CPU %s are globally too high on Superstar and HoF. I'm not going to rush any changes in, but if we can make the defaults out of the box better, then we will. This is also important for the MyCAREER crowd or any mode with uneditable sliders.

Also, it's important to note that User and CPU shooting sliders don't necessarily need to be identical to be on "fair ground." Human shot percentages and CPU percentages should always be evaluated separately because there are inherent differences between how User and CPU shooters derive success. So keep that in mind when you're testing sliders.

I'll keep monitoring this thread for feedback and when it seems like the majority is coming to a consensus, We'll push out an update that hopefully works for everyone.

Beluba:

Regarding sliders for Play Now Online ranked matches, I'm pretty sure there is a consensus or a concern in relation to the sometimes unrealistic high successful % of 3pts shooting. Maybe tuning down a little bit such rate will be very welcome for the Online SIM community.

We are seeing, for example, Curry draining quite a lot of unrealistic 3pts. from almost halfcourt, when everybody knows that Curry can make it maybe twice per week in real NBA.
Can you update the Play Now Online mode to make it more SIM wise in terms of 3pt shooting?

PS: probably out of topic, but:

1) is there a chance to update the matchmaking algorithm in order to avoid playing against the same teams over and over again?

A pretty solid idea would be that the AI may search your last 3 or 5 games and then search for a different opponent team for the sake of variety. Im throwing this to the table because now you cannot leave the matchmaking screen (to avoid certain repetitive teams) without getting a LOSS. I think is unfair, or boring, or to a certain extent: frustrating, to be playing against the same teams (you know: Warrios/Cavs/Knicks)

2) can you update the Coach Settings (for Play Now Online also)? there is a major consensus around the community that Coach Settings are not being saved or working properly during the game. No matter what your choose, your settings will revert to default again. So it is like having no Coach Settings at all.

Kinds Regards Beluba!!!

[Beluba]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

That makes sense. I guess I wouldn't mind the CPU being getting point boosts in some of their shooting attributes, sort of how it currently is on superstar/hof sliders but set to the 2K16 sim shooting:



user/cpu:

inside 40/45

close 40/45

midrange 45/48

3point 47/50



Depends what everyone else thinks.

This seems like a good start. I'll play around with this for a bit. Thanks. If others can confirm it would be good.


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[Leftykx]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

Man oh man is HOF blood boiling at the moment. It pisses me off when the AI makes me brick shots so they can stay in the game and also misplace my teammates so they can get easy baskets.

[sirio994]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

This seems like a good start. I'll play around with this for a bit. Thanks. If others can confirm it would be good.


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It seems a good set to start some testing. Other sliders stay the same?

[sirio994]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

Mike, can you do something for those sky-hook easy greens?

[Pizarro24]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

This seems like a good start. I'll play around with this for a bit. Thanks. If others can confirm it would be good.


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I have them a bit lower overall, but seems like a decent start.

But I prefer 3Pt in the 45-47 range, on 50 I think they almost never miss an Open Shot. I have good results with 45, both CPU vs. CPU and User vs. CPU, not every open shot goes in.

[sirio994]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

45 user / 47 cpu could be great for 3pointers

[RNS1hunna]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

45 user / 47 cpu could be great for 3pointers

45 for both


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[MarkWilliam]

Re: No simulation sliders this year. Out the box is default.

This issue I have with sliders (and knowing if they're right) is who's to say the user isn't just jacking awful shots?

Say I put them down to 45 for 3pt. Then shoot 11% from behind the arc and complain its too low...... not factoring in poor shot choice etc.

You know what I mean?

Then it swings both ways, you play lights out with GSW and suddenly its too high (but the splash family just splashed)..... such a grey area topic which fills me with uncertainty......

I'm talking specifically for Users (not AI). Pitting AI vs AI wouldn't be a solution for this reason of course.

This is why I never tweak sliders - because I'll always just doubt what I've done ya know?

But 2K17 definitely needs something....