The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

[RickyRubio9]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Guys is there any way to reduce the big hole that your centers let in the paint for easy baskets? I had the defensive assist at 0 already. More tips? Ty.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Question: We seeing too many dunks online?

Gameplay seems to be rewarding contested dunks waaaay too much. Gathering for dunks should take longer than a layup IMO. Shouldn't a layup directing the shot-stick away from the defense be higher % than dunking on someone?

I'm confused.

Show some clips. Bad D begets more easy buckets.

On the flipside, 2k's layups have generally been way too slow and not versatile enough. I'm seeing that there are more branches and release points and angles this year, so I'm still playing a lot before I can give informed feedback on driving to the basket overall.

In general though, if the defense allows dunks, I want to see a strong rise in dunk success, not an artificial push towards "what we should be seeing on average."

[sirjam]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Doesn't do us any good, if we don't know the scheme to begin with. The defensive side of the ball is incomplete. The only info we get in game is Man to Man or Zone sets, other than that the AI/ACE doesn't let us know(if its on) hey guys we are shrinking the floor this time around ok. In addition to that, his streams does no one no good because he doesn't archive them.

I do agree that ace should let us know what it's doing on d jus like it does on offense.

[WISports]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Another huge issue, and I know I said it before, is that sliders don't really do much. So we can't even address some of these issues ourselves.

If I set the CPU on-ball defense, body up, and lateral quickness all down to ZERO. I should be blowing by guys at ease. Instead, you still have the CPU matching every movement your guy with the ball makes.

I shouldn't have to "circle around" a guy to get by him.

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Another huge issue, and I know I said it before, is that sliders don't really do much. So we can't even address some of these issues ourselves.

If I set the CPU on-ball defense, body up, and lateral quickness all down to ZERO. I should be blowing by guys at ease. Instead, you still have the CPU matching every movement your guy with the ball makes.

I shouldn't have to "circle around" a guy to get by him.

The sliders do work, but not as dramatically as I would like. I just wish there was a slider for perimeter contact. The body up slider even on 0 won't eliminate perimeter physicality.

[WISports]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

The sliders do work, but not as dramatically as I would like. I just wish there was a slider for perimeter contact. The body up slider even on 0 won't eliminate perimeter physicality.

If a slider is put to 0 or 100, the difference better be pretty darn drastic. Like, big time.

Yet if there is any difference, it's very minimal. To me, that's broken.

[ffaacc03]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

If a slider is put to 0 or 100, the difference better be pretty darn drastic. Like, big time.

Yet if there is any difference, it's very minimal. To me, that's broken.

Nahh, that is just a perception and very subjective matter, to me "broken" is too loose of a word being used around ... is not like the game is broken because a team had a court with different colors on the parket, the inmersion and authenticity might be off, but the game is far from broken ... on a similar sense the slider is there and produces a noticeable yet subtle effect, is not broken, could just be tweaked a bit to cause some more of an effect ... then again, doing that might very well end of indeed causing the game to get "broken".

And I too would love to see some more an effect.

[Impetuous65]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

What scheme calls for the SF to run to the basket on D(transition), when his opposing player runs to the corner for a 3 or settles up top for a 3 or mid-range?

What scheme calls for a your SG which you set him to deny causes him to set up 10' away from a shooter?

how far away from the offensive player do you have to be or how close do you have to be the offensive player, before your team mates recognize you are close enough and don't require help in the form of a double team?

Why does your defensive player give up and just stand underneath the basket after colliding with the picks and screens and you watch him 20' away from the player he was supposed to deny, watch from a far shoot a 3?

[alabamarob]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

You guys should really follow Scott Ogalagher (sp) on Twitter. He did a awesome stream on how teams have their specific schemes in game as well as what all the def settings do. OG cleared up a lot of issues I'm seeing u guys post about. It was a awesome 2 hr event.

So all of czar's offensive stuff can be accessed on his YouTube, but the OG stuff is just a stream that no longer exists anywhere? Smh

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Just played a game where Jerry'd Bayless made Kyrie pick up his dribble 7 times and flat out just slammed into me, stopping me dead in my tracks 11 times and then the beloved animation where I bounce off him and look like I broke my spine 5 times. There were 2 blocking calls and 1 charge in all of that.

Gerald Henderson made J.R pick up his dribble an astonishing 13 times and ran into me, stopping me dead, 5 times. Blocking was called 2 times, no charges.

Henderson also made LeBron pick up his dribble 2 times and stopped him dead a laughable 9 times. No blocking and 1 charge.

These are pretty average defenders against pretty decent offensive ballhandlers. I'll admit LeBron doesn't have a great handle by NBA standards, but he does maintain ball control very well.

Each of these things happened by the cpu defender by magically getting to where I wanted to be by defying physics entirely and somehow reacting faster than I can input commands.

This is absolutely horrible. The update 2 nights ago made it so that this is now happening on Pro with body up slider, on ball defense and defensive awareness at 0. meanwhile my defenders are literally pylons - a small annoyance to blow past while the cpu spams zig zagging on the way to the rim.

Couldn't possibly be less realistic.

I don't see how anyone let alone the game developers see this as engaging or realistic. The NBA is not this physical. Guys actually do their very best to put hands up and avoid contact in these situations because, well, honestly physics makes it so that they can't react quickly enough to match or beat their opponent. Also the rules say that it's illegal.

I'd pay money to have the gameplay from 2 roster updates ago. These bullet passes and all team NBA defenders with the physical abilities of nothing we've ever seen on this planet is garbage.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Spoiler

Just played a game where Jerry'd Bayless made Kyrie pick up his dribble 7 times and flat out just slammed into me, stopping me dead in my tracks 11 times and then the beloved animation where I bounce off him and look like I broke my spine 5 times. There were 2 blocking calls and 1 charge in all of that.

Gerald Henderson made J.R pick up his dribble an astonishing 13 times and ran into me, stopping me dead, 5 times. Blocking was called 2 times, no charges.

Henderson also made LeBron pick up his dribble 2 times and stopped him dead a laughable 9 times. No blocking and 1 charge.

These are pretty average defenders against pretty decent offensive ballhandlers. I'll admit LeBron doesn't have a great handle by NBA standards, but he does maintain ball control very well.

Each of these things happened by the cpu defender by magically getting to where I wanted to be by defying physics entirely and somehow reacting faster than I can input commands.

This is absolutely horrible. The update 2 nights ago made it so that this is now happening on Pro with body up slider, on ball defense and defensive awareness at 0. meanwhile my defenders are literally pylons - a small annoyance to blow past while the cpu spams zig zagging on the way to the rim.

Couldn't possibly be less realistic.

I don't see how anyone let alone the game developers see this as engaging or realistic. The NBA is not this physical. Guys actually do their very best to put hands up and avoid contact in these situations because, well, honestly physics makes it so that they can't react quickly enough to match or beat their opponent. Also the rules say that it's illegal.

I'd pay money to have the gameplay from 2 roster updates ago. These bullet passes and all team NBA defenders with the physical abilities of nothing we've ever seen on this planet is garbage.

Does anyone have a video of these new "bullet" passes?

That's one thing I was happy to hear about, however, i am still sticking with the original default sliders (I purposely chose not to download any patches this year, at least up to this point I still have the original gameplay from day one).

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I'm starting to see some really unrealistic AI contests as well in MyCareer. Keep in mind, I'm dominating in MyCareer, so this isn't sour grapes about winning/losing/performing. It's just really about wanting the game to play well.

This has happened multiple times. A big slow player like Ryan Anderson will be on his heels or behind a screen/post up player and I or a teammate will pull up from midrange. Then he immediately dislodges and slide/boosts into a shot contest. You can actually see his feet hover like the ghost of 2k cheese is pushing him into place.

The disparity between AI defensive animations and User defensive animations is just really disappointing across the board. Ditto for the offball offensive controls. The AI is juking and diving and faking and cutting. The User just has this really stiff run, regardless of their ratings.

Again, I'm playing a Slasher and I have no problem getting plenty of dunks and high percentage shots. It's just that the game feels kinda crappy. I'll see beautiful sequences where the AI offensive improvements, both for my opponents and my teammates really shines through, then #warpnation or #forcefieldnation will show up and make it a really irritating experience.

[WISports]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Does anyone have a video of these new "bullet" passes?

That's one thing I was happy to hear about, however, i am still sticking with the original default sliders (I purposely chose not to download any patches this year, at least up to this point I still have the original gameplay from day one).

Some of the faster passes are nice in certain situations.

But some of the bullet passes are way too fast. Like an Aaron Rodgers missle.

Whats worse is when you wanna pass to an open guy under the basket, but instead of a lob pass (which they inexplicably took out this year...used to be triangle on PS4), you get a bullet pass that's picked off by a guy standing in front of you.

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I'm starting to see some really unrealistic AI contests as well in MyCareer. Keep in mind, I'm dominating in MyCareer, so this isn't sour grapes about winning/losing/performing. It's just really about wanting the game to play well.

This has happened multiple times. A big slow player like Ryan Anderson will be on his heels or behind a screen/post up player and I or a teammate will pull up from midrange. Then he immediately dislodges and slide/boosts into a shot contest. You can actually see his feet hover like the ghost of 2k cheese is pushing him into place.

The disparity between AI defensive animations and User defensive animations is just really disappointing across the board. Ditto for the offball offensive controls. The AI is juking and diving and faking and cutting. The User just has this really stiff run, regardless of their ratings.

Again, I'm playing a Slasher and I have no problem getting plenty of dunks and high percentage shots. It's just that the game feels kinda crappy. I'll see beautiful sequences where the AI offensive improvements, both for my opponents and my teammates really shines through, then #warpnation or #forcefieldnation will show up and make it a really irritating experience.

I lol'd at #warpnation.

Did you get the forced 2kanimation where you kind of squat, almost in a ball protect mode, just past halfcourt above the key, when your defender is in the key realizing he has to come up and guard you? It's magical. It's like 'Easy there bud! We see you all excited to drive or shoot, but that's not in the cards for you right meow. Here, have some inexplicable forced physical contact.'

Was playing with a good friend who hasn't bought 2K since 2K 10 because he started to dislike the physicality. He crosses me up but I warp back into him and push him all over the court and of course he does the stumble animation because I pushed him into another defender. He didn't say much. This happens like 6 times and he just puts down the controller and says 'If I wanted to have no control of my character I'd just go do BG's on my ele shaman in WoW.' For anyone who plays WoW, you'll understand perfectly. It's both sad and very, very true.

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

In my experience, this type of D happened at release, even with those slider adjustments + lateral quickness 0.

I haven't got the patch yet, as I'm on PC, but it'll be disappointing if the patch made it worse.

I desperately want a setting that decreases all of this bumping.

I had it perfect a few nights ago. Well, as perfect as the game can be, and I saw the dreaded update warning. I was sad. I instantly knew it would be messed up, and it was. Now I light up when I see that warning because maybe something is tweaked so that I can apply those sliders I saved and never, ever, ever, ever download anything for this game again.