The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

[ch46647]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Great post! I do agree with Steve, though, I think the CPU has the ability to play much better defense if the DEV team can clean up a few of the defensive ACE issues.

With that said, I cannot stand the artificial boosts that on-ball defenders receive (put in for balance). It's not as bad as 2K16, but it's still very prevelant. I'll be so happy when they finally remove ALL boosts and build a defensive rotation system that is capable of withstanding ball handlers driving to the basket/ pick and rolls/ off-ball screens/ etc.

[EarvGotti]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Nelson I understand where you are coming from, but I haven't seen much AI issues defensively now that we have the help slider back and individual defensive tools.

I'm able to control almost every aspect of the defense on my team. Its pretty deep man. Now if you are referring to the defense of CPU opponent teams then I can't speak on that.

But for your team, the tools are there man.

Sent from my BLU STUDIO 5.0 C using Tapatalk

[kolanji]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

It seems that hard hedges at an extreme rate causes the hedger to be disconnected from his assigned man and causes the roller to move about freely while he spaces out in no mans land....

Also the AI's ability to switch on an open man during PnR or a user decides to do manual switch the AI ability to recognize a need to switch seems a bit lacking....(but to be honest the who to guard arrow is still pointing on the the assigned player a user just switched off from)

Recommendations :
1. Give users the ability to manually switch who they are guarding like on manual switches to cue original defender(AI) that a switch had accured....maybe by double tapping intense defence button when pointing the right analog stick in the direction of the new intended person to guard....maybe this will help Cue the AI to better understand and react to users intentions and reassigned them the users's previous player he was guarding

[Optik]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I've held back on buying this game because it looks like the smallest iteration jump in the series in a long time. I've been watching Smoove's videos to be able to judge and it just seems like 17 has the same problems as 16 - the CPU AI can't cope with user turbo and it doubles in the most inappropriate situations. Smoove's PG has a 3pt rating less than 70 and yet he's getting doubled at the top of the key when he's scored a bunch of points, which gives his teammate a wide open layup everytime - this is dumb AI. You should rarely be doubling someone at the top of the key unless it's in a pick and roll.

[Klarity]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I think it's important to specify which mode your getting these defensive breakdowns in. In my own opinion, I've noticed different AI between MyCareer and the other fully controlled modes.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Nelson I understand where you are coming from, but I haven't seen much AI issues defensively now that we have the help slider back and individual defensive tools.

I'm able to control almost every aspect of the defense on my team. Its pretty deep man. Now if you are referring to the defense of CPU opponent teams then I can't speak on that.

But for your team, the tools are there man.

Sent from my BLU STUDIO 5.0 C using Tapatalk

I'm speaking strictly about the enemy AI. We all know that teammate AI in MyCareer is dumbed down on D and loose ball situations, and single player modes your teammates are customizable. The options 2k gives for teammate D are fantastic in MyLeague/GM/1v1 PvP

And keep in mind that the kinds of changes I'm talking about would make it harder to score, not easier. Ultimately it's about getting away from dribble penetration defense relying on cheats, but also having the rewards for dribble penetration be less great, because help is there. Getting penetration should be the first of a series of good decisions if you're breaking down a solid defensive team or better.

I've held back on buying this game because it looks like the smallest iteration jump in the series in a long time. I've been watching Smoove's videos to be able to judge and it just seems like 17 has the same problems as 16 - the CPU AI can't cope with user turbo and it doubles in the most inappropriate situations. Smoove's PG has a 3pt rating less than 70 and yet he's getting doubled at the top of the key when he's scored a bunch of points, which gives his teammate a wide open layup everytime - this is dumb AI. You should rarely be doubling someone at the top of the key unless it's in a pick and roll.

If you like basketball and videogames this is a no brainer purchase. I will always want to improve this game but that doesn't mean I don't like it. There are maybe five things I'd love to see patched if possible, but if they never touch this game I've certainly gotten my money's worth.

[Krodis]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I think for some things, especially MyCareer, it would help if there was an equivalent of Play art for defense. Different teams do things differently on defense (and change depending on the matchup ), so it would be nice to have some indication of what the AI is thinking. Was I supposed to hedge or no? Was I supposed to help? Am I supposed to pinch on the pick and roll? Hard to know your responsibilities as a human defender within the ai's scheme

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[BezO]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

It actually looks better with less effective iso moves. When I get the CPU defender way out of position, I do think they recover too quickly. But when I create just enough space and take a good angle, I get ride animations more times than not, getting to the lane and seeing help.

I agree that CPU trapping is excessive when I get someone going, leaving guys open for easy baskets.

[BigT34]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

This is a great thread.

I think we do have to be a bit careful about calling AI defense an "issue" when, in fact, we're talking about something really, really complex in terms of coding and design, and 2K is pretty wonderful about trying to push that envelope. The best NBA team defenses are actually unbelievable in terms of their ability to rotate, help, and force teams into less efficient options--if you just watch an NBA team versus a college team, the difference is really dramatic.

So, let's not forget that there are likely real technical limitations here. This game isn't a perfect simulation of real life physics nor is the AI an actual, thinking AI.

That said, it's gotten better over the years and I think community feedback just like this is essential for that process to continue.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I was just thinking about this post as I go back and delete my NBA 2K16 clips.

I dont really see enough clean blow-bys like this. Do you guys?

https://vimeo.com/183683010

[Goffs]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Great thread! They need to figure something out for next year.

[WTF]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

The only clean blow bys are from a behind the back move or from a pick in my cases 24th.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

The only clean blow bys are from a behind the back move or from a pick in my cases 24th.

Or even a riding situation like this where my defender guesses wrong....

https://vimeo.com/183687787

Sure he shifts back improperly but I earned the angle.

I would like to see more of this instead of all the stonewalls and push backs...I actaully feel 2k17 is more equipped to handle these situations than 2k16 as far as help defense....so the extra stickiness and pulling isnt needed imo

(These clips are SS/SIM 2K16)

[2_headedmonster]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I dont see enough helping of the helper to force extra passes after a man is beat, and that leads to one-pass open shots.

Also, i dont think the CPU does enough adjustments before it goes to an out-right, 'get the ball out of his hands' double.

side-note: i lowered the body-up sensitivity to like 30-35 and im having less stickiness.

[ruxpinke]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

The AI is all over me, on all star too. I know there's a learning curve, esp with the new dribble controls, I just haven't felt like its even possible like in the vids above.