Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trailer

[Junior Moe]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Why does Boston arena always look so bad? I hate playing there in 17.


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Nice comparison pic. On another note, I've been staunch in the "the players are too big, or the court is too small!" camp, but it looks to scale. I was wrong. I guess the spacing issue is more related to movement.

[JoFri]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

I LOOOOVE that we can hit contested shots again. Hasn't been since like 2k12 that stars could hit contested shots. People been so emamoured by the rule of "if I contest he has to miss or its bs, and if I'm open I have to score" that 2k made it pretty much binary in terms of how offense goes.



Of course, it'd be nice to have shot contest ratings matter more now and also ensuring that shot timing doesn't trump contest and shot quality or else the game will be Steph Curry sprinting fadeaway 3's every match.

I'm fully support this. Just to highlight that offline players like me can still have the contested shot going in 2K17, just a matter of tuning the sliders.



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[ViolenceFight]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

I know I already addressed both of these comments that were in response to my earlier post, but I wanted to address them one more time with good reason.

I decided to reinstall NBA2k14 (PS4) yesterday and give it a test run strictly because of the "2k17 substitution thread." I wanted to see a previous 2k timeout substitution menus. Decided what the heck, let's put on a game and honestly I was amazed by what I encountered. It actually killed several birds with one stone so to speak.

(1) Cheating, help, anticipatory defense was absolutely fantastic. This is probably why this was probably the most difficult challenge I've ever had in a 2k basketball game. And why 2k17 was the easiest ever on HOF.
(2) Layup rim physics was fantastic. Yes, the ball actually hits the rim on plenty of made and miss layups, lots of layups rim physic variety.
(3) The ability to blow by the defender without being "stuck" was fantastic. Even someone like me that wasn't skilled on the stick could blow by the defender without being stuck was fantastic.
(4) Ball physics, loose ball physics.
(5) The halftime show was fantastic, in game studio updates was fantastic. I still love the current halftime show in 2k17, but a lot of the 2k14 element needs to be brought back.
(6) Lighting was pretty phenomenal.

Most Important Part of this post: Cheating, Help, Anticipatory Defense
Look at the below NBA2k14 footage. Check out some of the animations, contextual animations, player awareness, floor awareness, anticipatory awareness. You don't have to "hug" your assigned man near the perimeter like they're doing in 2k17 (and possibly 2k18). You can still keep an arms reach with your man in 2k14, provide anticipatory help defense when it calls for it. Clamping down the paint.


Spoiler tag includes several video footage from NBA2k14.
Yes, all the videos are different videos. The still screen picture looks like it's same, but all the videos are of different sequences. I double checked already.

Spoiler

Warriors vs Mavericks.


First sequence: Look at how Curry is defending the 3 point shooter in the first sequence. Look at how Iggy is also defending the 3 point shooter in the first sequence. Both Curry and Iggy are also anticipating the post paint game.

Second sequence: Look at Curry and Klay cheating towards the post. Look at Iggy defending the perimeter shooter, and potentially anticipating the paint.


via ytCropper





Bulls vs Pacers

Then there's some more sequence down below Bulls vs Pacers. Just check out the defenders on each sequence giving anticipatory cheat help defense, clamping down the paint. Protecting the paint, but still within arms reach of the perimeter. Still able to recover and guard the perimeter without having to "hug" the assignments. There's an isolation play where the defender still shrink the floor and anticipate clamping down the paint but still protecting the perimeter, there's a couple plays specific to the post (post play). Everything just feels and looks appropriate. It just looks so much more like what I would expect to see on TV.

via ytCropper

via ytCropper

via ytCropper

NBA2k14 Halftime Show

mentions other games around the league and their respective times, shows some of the scores from around the league. Mention Player of the Week

via ytCropper





In Game Studio Break

via ytCropper

....in the first warriors clip and the first 2 Bulls clips it's wrong. First warriors clip Klay over extends leaving the opposite SG wide open, 1 pass away, at the 3pt line. That's terrible defense, and if read properly is a 3. He has no need to help off of his man, or over commit like that.

First bulls clip is incidental good coverage, however the C cheats too far in and gets stuck/collides with his own PG. Luckily the other guy wasn't a threat from range, he was wide open on the defensive miscue. Second one is poor help, again 1 pass away, which the user ignored. Again they were leaving Rose wide at 3, or a 2 step pull up.

This is poor defensive rotations. I hope none of that is in 18

That being said, dirk post up in warriors clip is done well, and the double comes from steph who isn't one pass away. That's solid.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

....in the first warriors clip and the first 2 Bulls clips it's wrong. First warriors clip Klay over extends leaving the opposite SG wide open, 1 pass away, at the 3pt line. That's terrible defense, and if read properly is a 3. He has no need to help off of his man, or over commit like that.

First bulls clip is incidental good coverage, however the C cheats too far in and gets stuck/collides with his own PG. Luckily the other guy wasn't a threat from range, he was wide open on the defensive miscue. Second one is poor help, again 1 pass away, which the user ignored. Again they were leaving Rose wide at 3, or a 2 step pull up.

This is poor defensive rotations. I hope none of that is in 18

That being said, dirk post up in warriors clip is done well, and the double comes from steph who isn't one pass away. That's solid.

And obviously, we'll all have to wait and see the retail version of 2k18 to really make a judgement, but simply based off the trailer, 2k14 overall concept of help defense is better executed.

Of course some of it was over extended but where, when, and how the help comes is not wrong and is perfectly fine. Yes, they could adjust the distance the helper defense cheats, but they're all perfectly fine because the idea is that they are still all with arm's reach to cover the outside shot and the "cheating help" looks way better than the 2k18 clips where everyone is basically hugging their assignment and provides no help defense. There is practically no help in the 2k18 clips (except for the irving driving the paint, that looked good). Joel Embiid in the iso post and Irving in the isolation in 2k18 didn't look good. Defenders leaving the entire paint open.

2k14 shows much better team defense concept.

The first clip, Dirks turns towards the baseline, has already committed to the fad away post shot. Bogut cheats to help. Klay clamps the paint to box out Bogut's man, leaving the perimeter shooter open is perfectly fine because Dirk is in position to shoot and has shot the ball. Klay still would have been able to recover if needed. Sure they could adjust the initial distance Klay cheats, but the idea and where the help comes from is perfectly fine.

The same with the Bulls clips. The cheat helper defense is perfectly fine. Sure, adjust the distance for some of the overextended help, but overall, the help cheat defense is much better overall represented.

First clips with Rose isolation drive, the defenders are clamping the paint to take out Rose's drive. Perfectly fine because Rose was fully committed to the drive and was not going to kick it out. If Rose would have kicked it out, defenders were still within reach to contest. How the overall team defense position themselves ready to clamp the paint is so much better than what I saw with the 2k18 Irving isolation setup. Irving isolation setup defense leaves the entire paint open. And knowing 2k18 Irving, if he would have actually driven, that is an easy two points. Cut off the paint first.

Second clip. Kirk Hinrich and Dunleavy are 3 point threat as indicated by their 3 next to their name. Rose is not as great of a 3 point threat. More importantly the clock was winding down to zero. Dunleavy needed to make a decision. Dunleavy penetrates and fumbles the ball because of the help defense. Clock expire and no shot was put up. The helper may have overextended a little, but overall nothing wrong with it because of the clock situation.

Third clip, George Hill cheats towards Boozer but doesn't fully commit. Next David West in the post backing down a smaller defender. Perimeter defends starts to cheat, and goes over to help.

The biggest take away is that 2k14 showed better overall team defense rotations (sure some may have overextended a little (this could be tweaked), but the idea is that the "presence" of help defense and anticipatory cheat defense is there to provide help and clamp the paint including recover to contest the outside shot is all present.

I hope 2k18 at least have better anticipatory, cheat, help defense than what we saw with the Joel Embiid isolation post and Kyrie Irving isolation play because both of these had a wide open paint.

[ViolenceFight]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Of course some of it was over extended but where, when, and how the help comes is not wrong and is perfectly fine. Yes, they could adjust the distance the helper defense cheats, but they're all perfectly fine because the idea is that they are still all with arm's reach to cover the outside shot and the "cheating help" looks way better than the 2k18 clips where everyone is basically hugging their assignment and provides no help defense. There is practically no help in the 2k18 clips (except for the irving driving the paint, that looked good). Joel Embiid in the iso post and Irving in the isolation in 2k18 didn't look good. Defenders leaving the entire paint open.

2k14 shows much better team defense concept.

The first clip, Dirks turns towards the baseline, has already committed to the fad away post shot. Bogut cheats to help. Klay clamps the paint to box out Bogut's man, leaving the perimeter shooter open is perfectly fine because Dirk is in position to shoot and has shot the ball. Klay still would have been able to recover if needed. Sure they could adjust the initial distance Klay cheats, but the idea and where the help comes from is perfectly fine.

The same with the Bulls clips. The cheat helper defense is perfectly fine. Sure, adjust the distance for some of the overextended help, but overall, the help cheat defense is much better overall represented.

First clips with Rose isolation drive, the defenders are clamping the paint to take out Rose's drive. Perfectly fine because Rose was fully committed to the drive and was not going to kick it out. If Rose would have kicked it out, defenders were still within reach to contest. How the overall team defense position themselves ready to clamp the paint is so much better than what I saw with the 2k18 Irving isolation setup. Irving isolation setup defense leaves the entire paint open. And knowing 2k18 Irving, if he would have actually driven, that is an easy two points. Cut off the paint first.

Second clip. Kirk Hinrich and Dunleavy are 3 point threat as indicated by their 3 next to their name. Rose is not as great of a 3 point threat. More importantly the clock was winding down to zero. Dunleavy needed to make a decision. Dunleavy penetrates and fumbles the ball because of the help defense. Clock expire and no shot was put up. The helper may have overextended a little, but overall nothing wrong with it because of the clock situation.

Third clip, George Hill cheats towards Boozer but doesn't fully commit. Next David West in the post backing down a smaller defender. Perimeter defends starts to cheat, and goes over to help.

The biggest take away is that 2k14 showed better overall team defense rotations (sure some may have overextended a little (this could be tweaked), but the idea is that the "presence" of help defense and anticipatory cheat defense is there to provide help and clamp the paint including recover to contest the outside shot is all present.

I hope 2k18 at least have better anticipatory, cheat, help defense than what we saw with the Joel Embiid isolation post and Kyrie Irving isolation play because both of these had a wide open paint.

...and our whole discussion gets obliterated as OG drops a blog. LOL.

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[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

...and our whole discussion gets obliterated as OG drops a blog. LOL.

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I was hoping to see your impression on the defensive AI blog considering your issues to the NBA2k14 clips I've provided. I'm very curious to hear what your take is on those over help rotations in the new 2k18 blog. I would be surprise if you thought everything in the blog defensive rotation was near perfect.