The Official #SIMNATION Thread

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  • Da_Czar
    NBA 2K Gameplay Producer, Offensive AI System - SIM NATION
    • Jul 2002
    • 5408

    #961
    Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

    Originally posted by youALREADYknow
    There are some clumsy/awkward actions to start some of the Mavs Series plays, but the off-ball actions are well designed. Czar is putting good basketball actions in the game.

    It’s about time they put those actions through QA to make sure the AI can execute them correctly. There’s a 2 second dribble left/right/backwards sequence from a standstill position after receiving a pass in many of the newer plays that seems to have no purpose other than positioning for the next pass. If you listen to any basketball coach they will preach ball movement, spacing, and playing with pace. It’s not possible to play consistently with pace in 2K until they clean up the tempo of those actions so players move in/out of passes/cuts with momentum instead of those start/stop sequences from a standstill position.
    I certainly make my fair share of mistakes in development. From my perspective, It is hard to quantify how difficult a task it is to get the AI to run these at all.

    If you go back to AI execution in 2K14 through today I think even a harsh critic can see consistent improvement in our AI's execution.

    There is a reason we are the only game to even attempt this stuff so far. Having said that, mid-season adjustments will ALWAYS be ruff. Again, until Madden 20 drop's we are still the only game to attempt that. Our plays are not just point to point instructions, but actual live AI updates. Giving our AI capabilities it did not have before in these situations while updating plays is pretty cool IMO.

    However, something is bound to not work just as it was designed. Some of the reason "plays" don't run well sometimes have zero to do with the play system, as that system relies on a plethora of other systems to operate correctly and I don't have control over those. Sometimes you have to deliver it the best you can and hope the rest of the game catches up.

    So thanks for the feedback, I just wanted to provide a little context. And yes sometimes a computer has problems executing if it is not in the exact location it needs to be . That is just a video-game type issue we have not had the tech to solve yet. Like I always tell yall these are not real people in these consoles fam.

    We are deep in crunch but I will add it to my list to see if this is something some of the new design tech can take care of or if I can clean the data points. If you have the exact names of the actions in question that would save me some time. Dre if you can send me the series action names if he ever posts them that would be great I don't know when I will have time to pop back in.
    Catch me on that #SimNation #SimHangOut Friday's @ 10:00 pm est https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...N7yxMiElOpMl_B

    Comment

    • 23
      yellow
      • Sep 2002
      • 66469

      #962
      Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

      Originally posted by Da_Czar
      I certainly make my fair share of mistakes in development. From my perspective, It is hard to quantify how difficult a task it is to get the AI to run these at all.

      If you go back to AI execution in 2K14 through today I think even a harsh critic can see consistent improvement in our AI's execution.

      There is a reason we are the only game to even attempt this stuff so far. Having said that, mid-season adjustments will ALWAYS be ruff. Again, until Madden 20 drop's we are still the only game to attempt that. Our plays are not just point to point instructions, but actual live AI updates. Giving our AI capabilities it did not have before in these situations while updating plays is pretty cool IMO.

      However, something is bound to not work just as it was designed. Some of the reason "plays" don't run well sometimes have zero to do with the play system, as that system relies on a plethora of other systems to operate correctly and I don't have control over those. Sometimes you have to deliver it the best you can and hope the rest of the game catches up.

      So thanks for the feedback, I just wanted to provide a little context. And yes sometimes a computer has problems executing if it is not in the exact location it needs to be . That is just a video-game type issue we have not had the tech to solve yet. Like I always tell yall these are not real people in these consoles fam.

      We are deep in crunch but I will add it to my list to see if this is something some of the new design tech can take care of or if I can clean the data points. If you have the exact names of the actions in question that would save me some time. Dre if you can send me the series action names if he ever posts them that would be great I don't know when I will have time to pop back in.
      I'll message him because he made that post some time ago.



      Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

      Comment

      • youALREADYknow
        MVP
        • Aug 2008
        • 3635

        #963
        Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

        Originally posted by Da_Czar
        So thanks for the feedback, I just wanted to provide a little context. And yes sometimes a computer has problems executing if it is not in the exact location it needs to be . That is just a video-game type issue we have not had the tech to solve yet. Like I always tell yall these are not real people in these consoles fam.

        We are deep in crunch but I will add it to my list to see if this is something some of the new design tech can take care of or if I can clean the data points. If you have the exact names of the actions in question that would save me some time. Dre if you can send me the series action names if he ever posts them that would be great I don't know when I will have time to pop back in.
        My feedback always has respect behind it OG. I'm a fan of the improvements to the play engine over the years.

        I do have a list of plays from back in Jan-Feb that had awkward actions or failed to execute at times due to player locations. I'm not sure what's been updated since around All-Star break, but I'll post it here when I get a chance.

        Comment

        • JoFri
          Pro
          • Mar 2013
          • 1486

          #964
          Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

          Originally posted by Da_Czar
          Spoiler

          I came across an issue at the start of the play where one of the AI players get stucked with a defender and couldnt move nowhere. As he couldnt move to the right spot, the play would just 'hang' and all players caught ball watching. Hope this can be looked into it in 2K20.

          Its random and happened occasionally.



          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • 23
            yellow
            • Sep 2002
            • 66469

            #965
            Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

            Originally posted by youALREADYknow
            My feedback always has respect behind it OG. I'm a fan of the improvements to the play engine over the years.

            I do have a list of plays from back in Jan-Feb that had awkward actions or failed to execute at times due to player locations. I'm not sure what's been updated since around All-Star break, but I'll post it here when I get a chance.


            Your PMs are full

            If you can give me the list, I can get it to Czar faster than he'd get it on here.

            Comment

            • JoFri
              Pro
              • Mar 2013
              • 1486

              #966
              Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

              Originally posted by 23
              Your PMs are full



              If you can give me the list, I can get it to Czar faster than he'd get it on here.

              If i read the post correctly, he mentioned Mav Series. Will be good if he can zoom down to which one (I suspect its the FIST series).

              FIST MAVS SERIES
              FIST MAVS SERIES 2
              FIST MAVS SERIES 3
              CUT MAVS SERIES
              QUICK MAVS SERIES
              QUICK MAVS SERIES 2
              QUICK MAVS SERIES 3

              I tried the cut series, it worked fine for me and its a play Dallas ran irl so successfully with Luka Doncic as the excellent passer at the post and Dennis Smith initiating the action at the wing and DeAndre Jordan as the screener for Smith. If that action fails, DJ would set onball screen for Luka on a 2-man action.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment

              • 23
                yellow
                • Sep 2002
                • 66469

                #967
                Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                Originally posted by JoFri
                If i read the post correctly, he mentioned Mav Series. Will be good if he can zoom down to which one (I suspect its the FIST series).

                FIST MAVS SERIES
                FIST MAVS SERIES 2
                FIST MAVS SERIES 3
                CUT MAVS SERIES
                QUICK MAVS SERIES
                QUICK MAVS SERIES 2
                QUICK MAVS SERIES 3

                I tried the cut series, it worked fine for me and its a play Dallas ran irl so successfully with Luka Doncic as the excellent passer at the post and Dennis Smith initiating the action at the wing and DeAndre Jordan as the screener for Smith. If that action fails, DJ would set onball screen for Luka on a 2-man action.


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


                You have an outdated roster?

                We need his specifics that’s what czar was asking for


                Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • JoFri
                  Pro
                  • Mar 2013
                  • 1486

                  #968
                  Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                  Originally posted by 23
                  You have an outdated roster?

                  We need his specifics that’s what czar was asking for


                  Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


                  Hmm ... can clarify what u mean with outdated roster?


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • 23
                    yellow
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 66469

                    #969
                    Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                    Originally posted by JoFri
                    Hmm ... can clarify what u mean with outdated roster?


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                    You're talking about DSJ and DeAndre Jordan on the Mavs?

                    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

                    Comment

                    • JoFri
                      Pro
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 1486

                      #970
                      Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                      Originally posted by 23
                      You're talking about DSJ and DeAndre Jordan on the Mavs?

                      Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
                      Ha okay. I mean I saw the Dallas Mavericks ran the play irl before they traded away DSJ and DJ. I ran the play with custom roster.



                      In this play, DSJ set an off-ball screen for H. Barnes at the wing. The defense switched and LBJ was out of position. DSJ read the defense and cut backdoor for alley opp.

                      I didnt notice any abnormality except the 3rd pass to Doncic at the elbow which has a very small window before it develops into another action.



                      For details on how the actual play is run irl and 2K19, Mavericks fans can watch this.

                      Comment

                      • JoFri
                        Pro
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 1486

                        #971
                        Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                        Originally posted by JoFri
                        I came across an issue at the start of the play where one of the AI players get stucked with a defender and couldnt move nowhere. As he couldnt move to the right spot, the play would just 'hang' and all players caught ball watching. Hope this can be looked into it in 2K20.

                        Its random and happened occasionally.



                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        the stuck animation looks like this (look at Kristap)



                        not sure if this is one of those flow tech issues

                        Comment

                        • 23
                          yellow
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 66469

                          #972
                          Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                          Originally posted by JoFri
                          the stuck animation looks like this (look at Kristap)







                          not sure if this is one of those flow tech issues
                          Okay I get what you're saying lol.

                          They definitely didn't change plays because they moved those guys

                          My bad on understaffing what you meant lol.


                          From what I've learned the issues we see have far deeper and complex solutions than just "fix that" or "just make it different"



                          What I do think is important here is for guys to send the word that it's not working correctly so it can be looked at.

                          Sometimes people scream for patches not understanding how many other areas one thing might affect



                          Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
                          Last edited by 23; 06-23-2019, 02:43 PM.

                          Comment

                          • youALREADYknow
                            MVP
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 3635

                            #973
                            Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                            Sorry about the PM's not going through. I deleted some messages and sent you the list of plays.

                            Comment

                            • 23
                              yellow
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 66469

                              #974
                              Re: The Official #SIMNATION Thread

                              Thanks man

                              Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

                              Comment

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