#StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

[Kushmir]

With all the progress NBA 2K19 has made for the series the new steal system is in dire need of some tuning. It lacks a proper risk/reward balance. Users going for steals everytime the other team rebounds the ball (an NBA no-no) is actually a working strategy in NBA 2K19. The player doesn't even have to possess the skillset--the whole thing reeks of the same anyone-can-do-it, one-size-fits-all dribble penetration we saw in 2K18. Head-scratching right? While you'd never see it in the NBA, its the new MetaTactic among the majority of 2K online players, something you'll literally after every miss, pass or rebound. Its puzzling that a title with gameplay so good would be plagued by such a strange, silly issue.

Its to the point where players haven't even gathered the rebound and steal spam has already forced a turnover.

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That's not NBA basketball. The worst part? Its not skill-based whatsoever, users are clicking on the man closest to the ball and just spamming steal. It can be a center with low steal rating rating ripping a guard or even elite ball-handler like CP3--no one is safe, it completely disregards Ball Handling ratings and Steal ratings alike.

Thompson's steal rating is 33.

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Lou's Ball handling rating is an 86. Collins' steal rating is 35. The user never hesitates turboing straight at a good ball-handler (colliding with him) and ripping him STRAIGHT UP. Poor balance has taught him trying to steal the ball with a 7 footer is a high percentage play.

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Sadly, it boils down to 2Ks nasty habit of simply having too many Neutral Outcomes. A basic premise in any H2H sports games online is a rock, paper, scissors model where timing based skill is rewarded and spam is NOT. The current level of steal meta is the equivalent of missing a hit-stick in Madden and still being in good position to make a tackle. That's laughable, right?--its also unacceptable. Imagine a boxing game where you could go for the huge uppercut sure-fire KO punch but still have your guard up on defense....how? That's horrible balance, you wouldn't allow one user rock AND scissors. Its not hard: Good results from good timing and BAD results from bad timing, benign results from failure is always, always, ALWAYS the culprit that encourages spam.

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2K17 had a great mechanic where steals resulted in a lunging animation and missed steals meant being left by the dribbler. It was well done too, add a foul outcome here and its a much more balanced experience with a clear risk/reward model.

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The crazy part is a lunging steal is actually IN THE GAME. The animation just doesn't play enough. See for yourself, check out Horford and Beverly in the clip below.

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I know what you're thinking...just protect ball. Welllllllll...about that.

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In closing, #StealSpam has dramatically altered the metagame for the worse in 2K19. There's literally no downside. Especially with shorter 5 min quarters where spammers rarely get into the penalty. A basic understanding of math teaches us that if failure yields more neutral outcomes than poor ones? Maximize your attempts since the penalties are rare, i.e. SPAM the hell out of steal. No one's saying steals aren't a thing but 1) neutral outcomes have to end. If you want the REWARD of a steal you have to RISK something. You stole the ball? FINE. But missing has to cost you: failure has to yield bad outcomes for the defense. 2) Fouls have to be turned up considerably. 3) 5 min quarters probably make the 3 foul penalty a necessity.

[DakkoN]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I don't understand the point of having a Steal rating if every player in the game is Deion Sanders when it comes to intercepting the ball.. There's no downside to just pressing square every single time on reaction of seeing the ball handler make a movement and daring the pass to come in that direction.

[bls]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Gotta say I wholeheartedly agree with this. No skill at all. Almost like watching a streetfighter match as your opponent constantly mashes the steal button with no penalty whatsoever.

6 fouls to foul out in a 5 minute quarter game. They have nothing to lose. Definitely unbalanced.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Gotta say I wholeheartedly agree with this. No skill at all. Almost like watching a streetfighter match as your opponent constantly mashes the steal button with no penalty whatsoever.

6 fouls to foul out in a 5 minute quarter game. They have nothing to lose. Definitely unbalanced.

They actually get booted if they have too many fouls in the quarter--this guy eventually did. But here's the thing. The VAST majority of reaches go uncalled. This short vid has 2 steals, 11 MISSED STEALS and 1 foul. Thats a horrible ratio---HORRIBLE. An 11:1 miss to foul ratio? Thats a virtual license to SPAM. Twice as likely to get a steal than to be called a foul? AGAIN--HORRIBLE.

Misses have to be punished. A better Fouls to Steals ratio should be 4:1. The league leader gets about 2 per game. Thats less than one in a 20 minute game.

Since a fighting game is what these guys are really looking for? Call the fouls, boot them and stop letting them ruin the experience.

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[awg811]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Remember 2k’s number 1 focus this year was “Skill Gap”.
That’s laughable!


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

They need to track the amount of steal attempts by users and boot them for going over x amount.

Sick of playing games where I'm not able to run offense or simply pass ball with some nut flying around the screen trying to steal ball.

The in bounds and half court rush steals are the worst they've ever been.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Thrustie]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I’m not typically prone to negativity and I’m a big 2K fan. I was late to this series, first was 2015, but it quickly became my most played game every year. But, man, this has been a really disappointing release for me at this point. The steal spam is atrocious. I get ripped once or twice a game coming down with boards and usually turn it over another time hammering pass knowing I’m gonna get spammed. Even holding L2 after a board is only marginally effective. It’s honestly the ugliest facsimile of basketball I’ve ever seen from 2K despite the graphical improvements. The lunging around every time a pass is made, constant reach ins and spam strips are nasty looking. It’s hard to imagine anyone watching their league if this is the gameplay.

That combined with the broken shooting and terrible inside scoring has me tired of this game before the season has even started when I’m usually playing until April or May.

[kobe2theMAX]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Great posts.

I hope the upcoming patch does something about all of this.

[franzis]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Totally agree with the OP, I also sent a tweet to mike wang and Timmerman on this issue a couple of days ago.


"Funny" thing is that reaching the rebounder has been an automatic foul in 2k for years, and now they changed it.


If you are into online (especially pro-am), it also makes almost useless badges like One Man Fast Break and Break Starter, as you get stripped before making a single dribble/pass.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Here's an instance where bad timing actually results in a negative outcome, sadly its rare.

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What happens most often:

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[kenn5373]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I don't understand the point of having a Steal rating if every player in the game is Deion Sanders when it comes to intercepting the ball.. There's no downside to just pressing square every single time on reaction of seeing the ball handler make a movement and daring the pass to come in that direction.

I've been saying that just as your teammate grade goes down for bad block attempts they should go down for bad steals attempts. All you see on defense is players flailing their arms around because they're pressing steal even if they're nowhere close to the ball. There's no consequence at all for doing it. It doesn't put you in a bad position if your pressing it at the wrong time and it rewards you with a steal if the pass does happen to be coming your way.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Ask yourself how many steals should you get to miss before you're punished with a foul or bad position? Think about it, if every steal attempt has the potential to take the ball, the chances for a failure must be HIGHER than success based on the amount of steal infrequency alone.

Those numbers are skewed horribly tho. From earlier today:

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Paul's first miss at 1:16 is the kind of missed steal animation we want. Sure I could have gone to the basket but I wanted you guys to see how many times users can spam steal without consequence....I count 7 misses--not one foul call. Thats horrible balance because CP3 is an elite ball thief. If an elite player (this guy isn't) can spam with him it breaks gameplay.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

How spamming steal and double team ruin 2K19 gameplay, i'm also now realizing how much of a force multiplier passing lane steals are when combined with the Double team. I've said for years that the double team had to be carefully tuned and balanced (it should have always had high fatigue drain and a 50% chance of a contact foul to prevent abuse)

Right now its the ultimate force multiplier when you add it with passing lane steals. Also, count the sheer number of inbounds to half-court I score--it breaks the defense too often....1) no set defense should allow that. The long pass thing has to get resolved.

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[UnbelievablyRAW]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I agree that there should be more lazy steal attempt animations, but don't agree that they should force you into extreme animations. That lazy reach around steal attempt (aka what Harden does to a lot of the people he guards instead of staying in front of them) should be what happens most of the time when you attempt to steal from a driving player, because in real life, reaching across someone as they are driving usually results in you clotheslining them. An exception would be if you are using a long defender that has a good steal rating that would be able to reach that far with enough quickness to poke the ball loose (aka Kawhi Leonard)

The one situation that should result in foul animations more is the steal right off the rebound. You literally don't even see the camera fully change or gain control of your player yet and the ball is already gone. That should end up being a reach in foul 8/10.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I agree that there should be more lazy steal attempt animations, but don't agree that they should force you into extreme animations. That lazy reach around steal attempt (aka what Harden does to a lot of the people he guards instead of staying in front of them) should be what happens most of the time when you attempt to steal from a driving player, because in real life, reaching across someone as they are driving usually results in you clotheslining them.

I'm fine with the reach around being frequent as long as the numbers are right. You'll notice it forced a turnover in the vid above. That can't be a frequent outcome--maybe 1 time in 20 outcomes. The other instances should be foul (12 outcomes) and simply beat off the dribble like in the PHX vids above (7 outcomes)

I do like that lunging Horford animation tho. Too me thats what happens when you're too far away or have low ratings.