#StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Op, u make excellent points I agree that the steal spam is op there’s no doubt about it. However, if we keeping it a buck, based off the few clips you posted, there’s a part of me that has to respect their attempts to actually play on ball d.

I get that there's this misconception that users who don't switch every time the ball is passed can't play D--but I assure you its not the case with me. Keep in mind I play the two whether its Roberson or Harden. Its helps my defense because I can take my weakest defender and make sure he's not doing anything silly (like overhelping) people assuming i'm a fish on D usually end up frustrated.

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I always chuckle when dudes online waste possessions trying to and-1 me....its not that kinda party--TRUST.

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[Thrustie]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

The best alternative is to just have a secondary ball handler to inbound it to away from the spammers. It's possible to space the floor properly, but because the defense's interception/tip range is so wide, it makes it really difficult at times.

This is why I wanted to post some videos. I keep hearing that people need to learn to pass and only bad passes get intercepted. That narrative is wrong. Plenty of good passes get intercepted and tipped as well. You really have to readjust your perception on what’s a safe pass in this game and it definitely doesn’t fall in-line with real basketball. It really discourages ball movement which is a shame.

When people bring this up, I keep hearing claims like “Ok well I guess you just want it like other years where you can pass to the paint from anywhere and it just goes through everyone.” Why are there only 2 possible outcomes? Why can’t there be a middle ground? I think you’re letting the developers off easy if you believe these are the only options.

[ASAP Floppy]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

This is why I wanted to post some videos. I keep hearing that people need to learn to pass and only bad passes get intercepted. That narrative is wrong. Plenty of good passes get intercepted and tipped as well. You really have to readjust your perception on what’s a safe pass in this game and it definitely doesn’t fall in-line with real basketball. It really discourages ball movement which is a shame.

When people bring this up, I keep hearing claims like “Ok well I guess you just want it like other years where you can pass to the paint from anywhere and it just goes through everyone.” Why are there only 2 possible outcomes? Why can’t there be a middle ground? I think you’re letting the developers off easy if you believe these are the only options.

They have literally killed backdoor cuts with this game, the amount of distance a player can cover when they hit steal is insane. Those animations should only be for lockdowns, and they need to make a system where the player has to see the ball to attempt a steal.

The onball swipes are stupid as well, centers can rip guards in the open court just by rushing them and hitting steal at the right time. If you actually play on ball defense and back up and bit then reach in you get the foul called, but running at the offensive player like you're about to tackle them and just swinging actually works out better.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Thrustie we're glad you and ASAP chimed in, those are real issues you guys bring up. Things like:

1. "Only bad passes are getting intercepted."
2. Players with low steal ratings (centers) ripping guards.
3. The total misconception that skill is involved.
4. Steal Spam Discouraging Ball movement

5. Backdoor plays being ineffective - The funniest part is this should actually be the counter to overaggressive "stealers" but the steal window is too large.

6. The "Deion makeup speed" lmao

I've always felt like the middle ground was making deflections out of bounds much numerous than steals. Steals aren't that prevalent anyway (the league leader gets about 2 per game) this rewards the defense by making the offense have to work late in the shot clock and prevents steals from being OP.

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I don't know that there's anything we'll ever be able to do about users "stealing balls they can't see" (we have the omniscient POV) but we can mitigate bad gameplay by using deflections out of bounds instead.

[Thrustie]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I know I said I wouldn’t bother but then I got ripped twice in one game and couldn’t help myself.

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I come down with the ball in both videos and immediately hold L2. This should literally never be successful. Not 1 time out of 100. I have both hands on the ball in a protected position. There’s no reason to reward someone for reaching there.

[Hellquist]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Y’all look at this video on steal spam lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA2k/comme...19_skillfully/

WTF is this LMAO. It's all about timing for me. I could post a 2K18 video of me stealing the ball in the first clip like this because I'm anticipating it. I don't spam. When I do an on-ball steal, it's also timing. I can see the spot where I can get it and I press the button once. This steal spam thing is ridiculous.

I don't have 2K19, but seeing a lot of these videos on here and Reddit has me laughing, but also makes me a bit irritated. Where's the skill gap? Why don't these people learn how to play?

BTW, keep up the good work, Kushmir! I love your threads and videos!

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

Thanks Hellquist, tons of good dialogue and solutions in here by a bunch of us. Hoping it gives the devs some inspiration on how to resolve the #StealSpam.

On another note, A Story in 3 parts:

This is why Neutral Outcomes hurt gameplay. This guy misses his first steal and then is just waiting to steal the ball. I only have 8 seconds to get out of the backcourt, so I get across the timeline with Johnson and then pass to Ben where he misses the steal again. Looking back I should have done a bounce pass--and this is where requiring more input from defenders makes sense. Make steals require skill. Swiping toward Ben for a normal pass, Up for a lob pass or down for a bounce pass.

Neutral Outcomes mean this guy gets to guess WRONG over and over with no downside. Thats like missing a hit-stick in Madden and still being in good position....which would be the worst design decision like, EVER. Especially since guessing right gets him a steal.

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Here's what SHOULD happen when guys are swiping at the ball from bad position, they either lunge out of position like Horford or they're whistled for a foul.

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Lastly, here's why the double team HAS to have a 50% foul outcome to prevent abuse, because it creates a single outcome. You HAVE to pass...knowing that, and these guys can spam steal to their hearts delight and have a good chance of stealing the ball with one of the doublers or clicking on a defender at the pass destination. This is the issue thats ruining Pro-Am, where 5 cheesers can coordinate this exploit.

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[lilteapot]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I know I said I wouldn’t bother but then I got ripped twice in one game and couldn’t help myself.

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I come down with the ball in both videos and immediately hold L2. This should literally never be successful. Not 1 time out of 100. I have both hands on the ball in a protected position. There’s no reason to reward someone for reaching there.

The frustrating part is, you KNOW these guys cant even see whats going on since the camera flips on a changed possession. They are literally blindly mashing square.

[ASAP Floppy]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

The simple fix right now would be increasing foul attempts on steals and making passing lane steal attempts burn stamina. They have to know how stupid their league is going to look if there's 5 guys playing zone defense just randomly swiping at air for the entire possession, just like they toned down the shooting from ProAm to their league because of how silly it would look.

For proam, lower foul outs to 4 or 5, there's no reason a player should be allowed 6 fouls in a 20 minute game. Imagine the type of defense guys in the NBA could play if they never got tired from attempting steals, and they also had 16 fouls before they can foul out.

[Keith01]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

What is 'meta'. Feel like that's some esports buzz word that most people don't know what it means. It's still basketball lol. Should contrast it with the real sport.

[Keith01]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

I know I said I wouldn’t bother but then I got ripped twice in one game and couldn’t help myself.

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I come down with the ball in both videos and immediately hold L2. This should literally never be successful. Not 1 time out of 100. I have both hands on the ball in a protected position. There’s no reason to reward someone for reaching there.

How was this not patched. It's like they purposely avoid fixing the obvious stuff.

[Thrustie]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

How was this not patched. It's like they purposely avoid fixing the obvious stuff.

No doubt.
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I get lucky and both of these go out of bounds off them by why is this crap so viable? Reaching across my body to slap the ball away. Probably better off just blindly throwing the ball upcourt.

[Kushmir]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

What is 'meta'. Feel like that's some esports buzz word that most people don't know what it means. It's still basketball lol. Should contrast it with the real sport.

It just means certain mechanics has changed/affected the usual ruleset or strategy--spamming steal after a rebound and in the passing lanes is now a thing. You either do it or have to be competent avoiding it.

Its in the 2K19 ecosystem at this point.

[awg811]

#StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

These kinds of on ball and passing lane steals should only be effective by lockdown primary’s. Instead, at least to me, lockdown primary’s seem to be worse thieves then a pure sharp


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[ZekeRoberts]

Re: #StealSpam has changed the 2K Meta

To Kushmir, I didn't watch every video in this thread but I did watch the first one... and I did read through the whole thread to see if anyone else noticed/posted... you DID try to run the same halfcourt play for the entire first 2:30 of the game... so I hope you recognize what the other guy might be thinking when he sees that... I doubt you'll understand or consider my post so I'm gonna get out of here before everyone flames me but just felt like it needed to be said...