Contested Layups

[olajuwon34]

Re: Contested Layups

nah this is different from the OP...stop reaching, this is more of a footplating problem and canned animation. and this type of things "dont happen every possesion"..your exaggerating,, really you telling me the whole time you play from 1st to 4th quarter the CPU is cheesy or cheats its way to beat you?? then maybe you the problem...how bout that?? now regarding the missing lay ups and what not your the only one who will think that way just check youtube for all the weird thing that happen in NBA.

Yah, im the problem for beating the cpu and having it start cheating against me and disregarding basic basketball mechanics and rules, and the original poster talked about contesting and how it works, and yes in offline the contesting system still favors jumpshooting, its very easy for the cpu to contest shots in the paint, even though they are still vulnerable to some moves close to the hoop, jumpshooting still seems to be the META, a lower 3 point rating can be more effective consistently then a high standing layup or post hook/fadeaway rating.


Also who's "dont happen every possesion" are you quoting? I never said every possession.


And regarding the random misses, im fine with misses if the defense looked like if visually effected the shot, there are countless misses a game where there was no visual reason the shot should have missed, this happens at a low rate in real basketball, but a high rate in nba 2k basketball. There is also MANY times where positioning doesn't play a factor scoring under the hoop, which is one of my main beefs with the past 2 games.

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Yah, im the problem for beating the cpu and having it start cheating against me and disregarding basic basketball mechanics and rules, and the original poster talked about contesting and how it works, and yes in offline the contesting system still favors jumpshooting, its very easy for the cpu to contest shots in the paint, even though they are still vulnerable to some moves close to the hoop, jumpshooting still seems to be the META, a lower 3 point rating can be more effective consistently then a high standing layup or post hook/fadeaway rating.


Also who's "dont happen every possesion" are you quoting? I never said every possession.


And regarding the random misses, im fine with misses if the defense looked like if visually effected the shot, there are countless misses a game where there was no visual reason the shot should have missed, this happens at a low rate in real basketball, but a high rate in nba 2k basketball. There is also MANY times where positioning doesn't play a factor scoring under the hoop, which is one of my main beefs with the past 2 games.

your nit picking thats the problem....CPU aint cheating like i said some sliding happens. and again this is not a perfect game. but still you only become emotional is when you losing that why you "assumed" the CPU cheating...right?? actually most of you here in OS has this conspiracy about this game "holding you down for it to be harder to you to win" situation...right???

Please stop with the blame game ish...your the one holding the controller its your input..so if you make the shot its okay but in you (your own only right opinion) you should not miss"....you must be perfect all the time yeah??? you telling me that even real NBA players dont miss a lot??? you must not watch a lot of basketball games huh?? let me guess you have a green shot meter and it missed??

so if it dont happen ever possession why its a problem?? things randomly happen in real NBA game.. also just bcoz all of this top players is free and wide open that doesnt guarantee that they will make the shot so is this game. dont be choosy on when you should rant...

so whats random miss to you? and what miss is the game mechanics is not acceptable????

post a clip of your so called not acceptable miss so you can prove a point..

i post a bunch of video that is "contested layup" even with the so called under the hoop you talking about.just now and you gonna act thats all of it is nothing??

you still gonna hold on your emotion after all the clips??

next time you reply, post a clip instead of coming at me without proper evidence... and dont post any clip from online mode as i say, I "DONT" care in any of that modes issue nor the people playing that mode. Strictly offline...

ohh i missed, i should of make that shot....this is not fair...say that to Houston rockets who missed 27 3 point shot on NBA west finals (which is some of them is really wide open)...Real Basketball...

enjoy that so called game breaking mechanincs until 2k20.

[nuckles2k2]

Re: Contested Layups

...

This is what was the discussion stick with it.

thats all me against the CPU in HOF 10 minutes with more hard adjusted sliders no shot meter nor feedback to rely on and real player %

and again this game is good in offline at least in my honest opinion. there ithe element of surprise every time i play which how this game should be.

Question: how can it be "all you" if you use real player %? Doesn't real player % literally do what its name suggests and alters outcomes to adhere to the player's real life percentages?

Whereas folks who roll with user timing are at the behest of the game's mechanics?

I'd have to fire up 2K to test, but I'd imagine that if you go careening into the paint the way you do in a few of those vids with user timing...you ain't making those shots.

I'll wrap this post with a quote from an old thread here on OS discussing shot stick vs real player %:

...

A killer debate I've always had is Real Player % vs. Shot Timing. I've switched many times, but I would say about 75% of my time on 2K has been using Real Player %. To me, I've always felt that I wanted my players to shoot the ball just as their attributes are. I didn't want my skill to interrupt what the attributes should be displaying on the court.

...

Are you even dealing with the contest mechanics against the CPU with RP%?? What's the threshold for "ok this is ridiculous" vs "nope. don't give a ****. This shot is going in...the RP% says so"?

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Question: how can it be "all you" if you use real player %? Doesn't real player % literally do what its name suggests and alters outcomes to adhere to the player's real life percentages?

Whereas folks who roll with user timing are at the behest of the game's mechanics?

I'd have to fire up 2K to test, but I'd imagine that if you go careening into the paint the way you do in a few of those vids with user timing...you ain't making those shots.

I'll wrap this post with a quote from an old thread here on OS discussing shot stick vs real player %:



Are you even dealing with the contest mechanics against the CPU with RP%?? What's the threshold for "ok this is ridiculous" vs "nope. don't give a ****. This shot is going in...the RP% says so"?

you could have highlight the whole qoute below and the answer is there already, real player % with no shot meter to rely on is as close to realistic gaming you will experience in 2k coz not everything you do is all ready predetermined or in "my personal opinion cheating" (because of the guide green,when to release BS) an element of surprise if you make the shot or not just like real NBA basketball...there is up and downs.. it cannot be all the time you score..do i missed a lot of shot... of course...but i dont blame the game i blame myself for forcing my way to basket when its crowded than to a close open wide shot(and i make this shot defends on the player percentage..so the possibity it go in is 80/20) and im good with that..remember even durant, curry and thompson have bad shooting days..

..but but but but.. this is a video game and i have green release and so on.

Honestly when OS people start commenting about this i already know that this person dont have realistic approach to this game but just to score win and care about stats. (if this is your mentality about how you play this game then i dont know what else to say..you pretty much have the same issue of an online player...which again for me is a lost cause)

ill leave this down here with you also...

Real player field goal percentage means the player you're controlling will shoot about as well as he does in real life. If you're playing with LeBron, KD, or Curry that shoot exceptionally well in real life, you can expect the same shooting percentages in the game. If you're playing with players like Andre Roberson who can't hit fish out of water outside of 2 feet in real life, don't expect anything different in-game.

User timing is exactly what it sounds like. Your shooting percentage can increase or decrease based on when you release the shot stick or shooting button. Though tendencies and ratings still matter, the timing of early, slightly early, perfect, slightly late, and late releases matter more.

For example, Shaq for his career is an atrocious free-throw shooter at round 50 something percent. Theoretically, under user timing, you could get him to go 20 for 20 at the line if you study and learned his release for his shot. It's still highly unlikely that it could happen given his in-game free-throw ratings, but it's alot better than the odds of doing under real fg% that say he'd never hit more than 11 out of 20 at the line.

hope that helps...

[olajuwon34]

Re: Contested Layups

you could have highlight the whole qoute below and the answer is there already, real player % with no shot meter to rely on is as close to realistic gaming you will experience in 2k coz not everything you do is all ready predetermined or in "my personal opinion cheating" (because of the guide green,when to release BS) an element of surprise if you make the shot or not just like real NBA basketball...there is up and downs.. it cannot be all the time you score..do i missed a lot of shot... of course...but i dont blame the game i blame myself for forcing my way to basket when its crowded than to a close open wide shot(and i make this shot defends on the player percentage..so the possibity it go in is 80/20) and im good with that..remember even durant, curry and thompson have bad shooting days..

..but but but but.. this is a video game and i have green release and so on.

Honestly when OS people start commenting about this i already know that this person dont have realistic approach to this game but just to score win and care about stats. (if this is your mentality about how you play this game then i dont know what else to say..you pretty much have the same issue of an online player...which again for me is a lost cause)

ill leave this down here with you also...

Real player field goal percentage means the player you're controlling will shoot about as well as he does in real life. If you're playing with LeBron, KD, or Curry that shoot exceptionally well in real life, you can expect the same shooting percentages in the game. If you're playing with players like Andre Roberson who can't hit fish out of water outside of 2 feet in real life, don't expect anything different in-game.

User timing is exactly what it sounds like. Your shooting percentage can increase or decrease based on when you release the shot stick or shooting button. Though tendencies and ratings still matter, the timing of early, slightly early, perfect, slightly late, and late releases matter more.

For example, Shaq for his career is an atrocious free-throw shooter at round 50 something percent. Theoretically, under user timing, you could get him to go 20 for 20 at the line if you study and learned his release for his shot. It's still highly unlikely that it could happen given his in-game free-throw ratings, but it's alot better than the odds of doing under real fg% that say he'd never hit more than 11 out of 20 at the line.

hope that helps...

Guy, im just going to sum this up, im fine with missing shots, and there being ups and downs, as long as its programmed properly.

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Guy, im just going to sum this up, im fine with missing shots, and there being ups and downs, as long as its programmed properly.

You dont even know what exactly what you want in this game and your asking it to be programmed properly.... go sum up you emotion till 2k20....sheeessh

[olajuwon34]

Re: Contested Layups

You dont even know what exactly what you want in this game and your asking it to be programmed properly.... go sum up you emotion till 2k20....sheeessh

Your the only emotional one here posting 9 paragraph comments, we cant debate you already stated your playing on adjusted sliders and real player %, so what some of us are trying to refer to you dont even have experience with.

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Your the only emotional one here posting 9 paragraph comments, we cant debate you already stated your playing on adjusted sliders and real player %, so what some of us are trying to refer to you dont even have experience with.

there is a diffrent being emotional and having a realistic view to it.

and i said adjusted to more harder sliders you reading properly???

so whats the problem with real player%??? with no shot meter?? is it more harder compare to having a guide to follow?? and why coming back and forth with me then tell me in the end its not the same???

You playing ONLINE??? coz if you do and that is the only thing you base your "bad program" game then go create a thread about online only and talk to all you online people.

its okay to admit that your a sore loser when not winning the game but to blame the game and try not to accept all the evidence, then your the one in denial.

oh i love to write to prove a point to stop to all the cry babies bishn about this game... because they cannot accept losing.

we both playing the same game?? 2k19 right??? so what do you mean i dont experienece? is there any other version of this??

[Jimmy2k19]

Re: Contested Layups

Players miss wide open dunks and layups at what, 1 or 2 out of 100 clip (if I'm being generous)? Players also miscommunicate and pass the ball into the stands, coaches get techs, guys dribble off their own foot and kick the ball out, should we put this in the game too? This is the equivalent of putting snaps over the punter's head in Madden or too many men on the ice penalties in NHL... there's just no way to have it in the game and have it be fair to the user(s). It's easier (and correct) to just leave it out than look like a poor representation of the sport.

On the layup topic, I would not say the contesting of the layups is what is wrong. I would say the risk-reward system is poor. When deciding on the outcome of a drive to the hoop, difficulty of the action - as well as the skills of all players involved should be considered. If you're trying to drive 1 on 2 with a spot up shooter that has no inside game, that should be a very low % conversion. If you do the same thing with an elite slasher, the % should go up significantly... but taking on 2 defenders is still a fair % play at best and shouldn't be rewarded TOO often. But this game favors aggression and will hand out bail out fouls on weak takes often enough to make it a positive play to blindly drive the hoop. Basketball is a game of percentages, and high % plays almost always beat low % ones over the course of a game or a series. The game should reflect this by rewarding open shots, well positioned and executed defense and well timed aggression.

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Players miss wide open dunks and layups at what, 1 or 2 out of 100 clip (if I'm being generous)? Players also miscommunicate and pass the ball into the stands, coaches get techs, guys dribble off their own foot and kick the ball out, should we put this in the game too? This is the equivalent of putting snaps over the punter's head in Madden or too many men on the ice penalties in NHL... there's just no way to have it in the game and have it be fair to the user(s). It's easier (and correct) to just leave it out than look like a poor representation of the sport.


On the layup topic, I would not say the contesting of the layups is what is wrong. I would say the risk-reward system is poor. When deciding on the outcome of a drive to the hoop, difficulty of the action - as well as the skills of all players involved should be considered. If you're trying to drive 1 on 2 with a spot up shooter that has no inside game, that should be a very low % conversion. If you do the same thing with an elite slasher, the % should go up significantly... but taking on 2 defenders is still a fair % play at best and shouldn't be rewarded TOO often. But this game favors aggression and will hand out bail out fouls on weak takes often enough to make it a positive play to blindly drive the hoop. Basketball is a game of percentages, and high % plays almost always beat low % ones over the course of a game or a series. The game should reflect this by rewarding open shots, well positioned and executed defense and well timed aggression.

regarding your first graph ...With all honesty.. yes this should be in the game if you are playing purely NBA games as its supposed to replicate real basketball game, 2k is doing their best every year to come out with game to be as close as its real counter part...especially in offline... unless you talking about online modes..as gamers there is solely focus on their stats and winnings ..which in my opinion is the poorest representation of this sports. (oh and those shot-meter...geez they should start removing that)

second....At what point of the game when you playing 48 minutes should the above statement a fair representation of a realistic NBA game? just curios coz i notice most people commented about this is when they start to loose the game..and be specific if its an online or offline.

[olajuwon34]

Re: Contested Layups

we both playing the same game?? 2k19 right??? so what do you mean i dont experienece? is there any other version of this??

Yes offline and online are and can be 2 way different experiences, by the way i left out the other portion of your comment as it seems you got emotional again. Your really eating your words from that comment.

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Yes offline and online are and can be 2 way different experiences, by the way i left out the other portion of your comment as it seems you got emotional again. Your really eating your words from that comment.

oh okay an "online person" what do you know.....just like i thought a sore loser...now its clear to me...nice going back and forth with you....it all make sense now....next time read properly from the start when i clearly mentioned strictly offline...but i guess i struck one....

keep that emotion till 2k whatever... you ONLINE gamer. peace bruva.

[Jimmy2k19]

Re: Contested Layups

regarding your first graph ...With all honesty.. yes this should be in the game if you are playing purely NBA games as its supposed to replicate real basketball game, 2k is doing their best every year to come out with game to be as close as its real counter part...especially in offline... unless you talking about online modes..as gamers there is solely focus on their stats and winnings ..which in my opinion is the poorest representation of this sports. (oh and those shot-meter...geez they should start removing that)

second....At what point of the game when you playing 48 minutes should the above statement a fair representation of a realistic NBA game? just curios coz i notice most people commented about this is when they start to loose the game..and be specific if its an online or offline.

regarding your first graph ...With all honesty.. yes this should be in the game if you are playing purely NBA games as its supposed to replicate real basketball game, 2k is doing their best every year to come out with game to be as close as its real counter part...especially in offline... unless you talking about online modes..as gamers there is solely focus on their stats and winnings ..which in my opinion is the poorest representation of this sports. (oh and those shot-meter...geez they should start removing that)

second....At what point of the game when you playing 48 minutes should the above statement a fair representation of a realistic NBA game? just curios coz i notice most people commented about this is when they start to loose the game..and be specific if its an online or offline.

Let me get this straight.. a guy who plays against a canned set of CPU plays and predictable scenarios wants to call out everyone else? That's a joke. How easy is it to exploit an opponent when you know exactly what they're capable of? It must be really thrilling to have no need to figure out opponent strategy and to just play your same game every single time... save that weak trash. Look at the amount of garbage you're talking at players who are grinding it out against real opponents in scenarios that have hundreds of possibilities beyond the games you play. HOF with sliders or not, you're hitting off of a tee and then talking down to people playing a tougher game than you.

Second, don't bring that "looser" garbage into every argument. I'm sure there are all skill levels here, I find the CPU boring even on HOF and online I win at around 70%. So we aren't all losers. It's a matter of how the games go that rub people the wrong way. Playing smart should be rewarded and being an idiot should be punished, but it's not. Even good players who take bad shots can shoot their teams right out of games - see: Melo's whole stint in NY, Kobe's last few years and any game OKC loses bc of Russ. There needs to be more of this other than a little snowflake icon.

But because the game is lazily thrown together to please small children and CPU beater champions, you can take bad shots/play bad strategy and still keep games close enough to sometimes win (even if you suck/know nothing). Open jumpers > Isolation, Ball movement > over-dribbling, reactive D from the rim out > overextending with hyper aggression.. this is basketball 101, but it is not rewarded as it should be. There is no debating this. That is not to say everyone has to play sim or the same style, but the game should be directing people toward the optimal game strategy by rewarding good ball and it simply isn't.

[olajuwon34]

Re: Contested Layups

oh okay an "online person" what do you know.....just like i thought a sore loser...now its clear to me...nice going back and forth with you....it all make sense now....next time read properly from the start when i clearly mentioned strictly offline...but i guess i struck one....

keep that emotion till 2k whatever... you ONLINE gamer. peace bruva.

You've lost it

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

You've lost it

actually no coz i dont play online and never will...so i dont really a single ish care about losing. im actually fine about it. in you the other hand...i guess not.... shall we continue?