Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

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  • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
    Banned
    • Jul 2019
    • 359

    #736
    Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

    Originally posted by Caelumfang
    You sound like a complete moron since you apparently know something about me that I don’t, but okay dude. ����
    No you... I mean it's pretty obvious you're a bum hunter based on how much you're defending squads matching up against solo randoms, and anyone who disagrees should just suck it up and stop 'crying' / 'whining'. Yes, because fair matchmaking = "coddled". Tell that to every Division 3 school that they're being coddled and should just suck it up.

    Comment

    • Yeah...THAT Guy
      Once in a Lifetime Memory
      • Dec 2006
      • 17294

      #737
      Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

      As I've been getting more into competitive shooter games, the lack of a good ranking system/ranking-based matchmaking really stands out in 2K.

      Most of these competitive games feature some sort of ranking system where your rating increases and decreases based on how you (but mostly your team from my experience) plays. None of them are perfect IMO, because for example, my friend is far better than me at Siege but we gain roughly the same amount when we win together and lose roughly the same amount when we lose together despite him being a vastly superior player to me.

      But point being, there's some sort of ranking system that goes up and down based on what the game views as your success. 2K sort of already has this with their 95-99 overall formula, though the same issue arises there as it does in shooter games: if you lose in 2K you'll most likely get somewhere around a 95 unless you just absolutely go off in a losing effort (in which case you might get around a 97).

      And if your team wins, then you'll likely end up in the 97-99 range depending on your numbers. The obvious downside is that it incentivizes stat-hunting rather than making the right play and also could create issues where people wouldn't want to play with randoms even more than they already do because their rating would go up or down based on how the random teammates do.

      To that end, I actually think the teammate grade would be a decent jumping off point. There's certainly weird quirks to it that pop up, but in the long run, I think teammate grades do a very good job of indicating how toxic a player is. If I see someone whose average teammate grade is a B or worse, 90% of the time it's pretty much impossible to play with them. A- or better and 90% of the time they know what they're doing.

      I think a rating-based matchmaking process would be a good step for 2K to take as they continue to push for a more competitive experience, and I would say something similar to the teammate grade system would be a good system to base it on, though I do think they need to make tweaks to spread the grades out more. Just switch it to a number scale rather than letters and actually spread it out so that everyone isn't jumbled together between a B and an A.
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      Comment

      • Erithtotl
        Pro
        • Aug 2002
        • 679

        #738
        Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

        Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
        As I've been getting more into competitive shooter games, the lack of a good ranking system/ranking-based matchmaking really stands out in 2K.

        Most of these competitive games feature some sort of ranking system where your rating increases and decreases based on how you (but mostly your team from my experience) plays. None of them are perfect IMO, because for example, my friend is far better than me at Siege but we gain roughly the same amount when we win together and lose roughly the same amount when we lose together despite him being a vastly superior player to me.

        But point being, there's some sort of ranking system that goes up and down based on what the game views as your success. 2K sort of already has this with their 95-99 overall formula, though the same issue arises there as it does in shooter games: if you lose in 2K you'll most likely get somewhere around a 95 unless you just absolutely go off in a losing effort (in which case you might get around a 97).

        And if your team wins, then you'll likely end up in the 97-99 range depending on your numbers. The obvious downside is that it incentivizes stat-hunting rather than making the right play and also could create issues where people wouldn't want to play with randoms even more than they already do because their rating would go up or down based on how the random teammates do.

        To that end, I actually think the teammate grade would be a decent jumping off point. There's certainly weird quirks to it that pop up, but in the long run, I think teammate grades do a very good job of indicating how toxic a player is. If I see someone whose average teammate grade is a B or worse, 90% of the time it's pretty much impossible to play with them. A- or better and 90% of the time they know what they're doing.

        I think a rating-based matchmaking process would be a good step for 2K to take as they continue to push for a more competitive experience, and I would say something similar to the teammate grade system would be a good system to base it on, though I do think they need to make tweaks to spread the grades out more. Just switch it to a number scale rather than letters and actually spread it out so that everyone isn't jumbled together between a B and an A.
        So unfortunately this is the primary driver of the lopsided matchmaking in rec, where squads go in and beat up on randoms, because its the best way to drive their ranking up. Pro-Am teams come in so they can all be 98-99 for their 'real' games in pro-am.

        I do think team grade can serve a useful purpose. The main fault with it is that certain behaviors aren't punished nearly enough. In some older editions of NBA 2k20, if you repeatedly performed behavior bad for the team, like taking bad shots over and over, your rating really got hammered and you ran a real risk of getting kicked. Now, someone can do that repeatedly and only suffer a very small drop. I've seen players stand in the key for an entire quarter or more, getting 5-6 turnovers and 5-6 defensive 3 seconds and have their rating go down a single letter.

        If I were in charge of rec/pro-am for next season I'd do the following:

        1) lower the rating penalties for losing and maybe tweak the formula for winning, use teammate grade as part of the formula, so a player who plays an A+ game but doesn't score 40 points gets rewarded.
        2) increase the negative consequences of bad teammate behavior on teammate grade to give it real teeth
        3) increase incentives for playing rec over mycareer (I can easily get 35000 myplayer points (or a 99.9 rating) and 1400-2000vc, depending on contract, while in rec or pro-am a great game might get you around 25000 and 1100vc and a 99.3 rating)
        4) increase the incentives for playing pro-am (double rep, double vc, cosmetic items and bonuses, not just for champs)

        Comment

        • Iasounis
          Pro
          • Oct 2012
          • 668

          #739
          Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

          Aside from the many useful changes that 2K can make to incentivize squads to play ProAm, here's one:

          Bring back 2K sponsored tournaments for ProAm teams. Removing it after 2K17, in favour of the 2K League, made team ProAm almost useless. Bring that back and dudes will head back to ProAm.
          PSN: KarlMarx24

          Comment

          • Cardinal Sin
            Rookie
            • Dec 2017
            • 40

            #740
            Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

            I am in the group that thinks rec matchmaking should start with squads vs no squads as a first criteria rather than the first criteria being skill based. I am an elite 1 with an 84% win percentage in rec. I probably have played 40% of my games alone, 55% with one or two friends and maybe 5% (out of 600 games or so) with a full squad. Playing against full squads my win percentage is probably 30% or so vs. like 90%+ against non-squads so obvious that is a huge difference. Honestly I would rather play 5 Elite 2s who were all randoms than a squad of SS1s... yes I would rather play a squad of rookies or pros than random elites but how often do you actually see full squads of rookies/pros.

            The combination of chemistry, communication, and complimentary builds that squads bring to the table is a HUGE advantage in a long game like rec (where unlike park the better TEAM will not lose often due to random chance). So I think the first cutoff for matchmaking should be squad size, and maybe secondarily (if it didn't make matchmaking take ages) it could be something skill-based like rep/teammate grade/stats.

            Also on a secondary note I definitely agree that the teammate grade system is way too lenient in this year's game, in that it basically allows someone to not play offense or defense without much penalty, and does not punish enough for things like bad shot selection. They need to go with a progressive penalty system where doing bad things repeatedly hurts the team-mate grade more and more.

            Comment

            • ImInThis
              Rookie
              • Oct 2014
              • 380

              #741
              Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

              I hope 2k decides to make Rec Squad vs Squad. Let all the sweaty 5 Out Zone tryhards play against each other. That is a major deciding factor on if I buy this game. Will be so satisfying to read their complaints on how they can't dominate.

              A lot of you have it all wrong, it's not about rank, these dudes just want to beat up on uncoordinated noobs. Look at how many stay below 92 just to matchup with even lesser skilled opponents. I say punish them all.
              Last edited by ImInThis; 07-15-2020, 11:11 AM.

              Comment

              • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                Banned
                • Jul 2019
                • 359

                #742
                Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                Anyone else getting sick of this NBA 2K cycle?

                After a few years of this, this online hamster wheel called NBA 2K is getting a little stale.

                1. Buy the game

                2. Create a build

                3. Play the game and start the endless grind for badges & ovr where you can:

                a) Wait 20-30min to invite friends or LFG, but usually not a consistent 5
                b) Play offline vs the boring CPU
                c) Play with randoms where you can pull out your hair and yell at the TV while witnessing 1. Trash buddy ballers who have decided to freeze out you - the best player - because they're freakin' brilliant people. 2. "My first game" noobs learn the controls and take 99% contested shots 3. Get matched up with try hard squads 4. Have overall crackhead teammates who love to clog the paint, shoot over 3 guys in the paint, and be completely lost on D.

                4. Repeat

                Idk about another year of this, it's just becoming not worth it. The grind has become the entire game, and I end up running with bums I can't stand just to get badges because finding a consistent active 5 that actually has chemistry is rare af.

                Comment

                • Kleinevos
                  Pro
                  • Nov 2017
                  • 599

                  #743
                  Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                  Matchmaking that actually works would solve so much.


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                  Comment

                  • ILLSmak
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2397

                    #744
                    Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                    Originally posted by Cardinal Sin
                    I am in the group that thinks rec matchmaking should start with squads vs no squads as a first criteria rather than the first criteria being skill based. I am an elite 1 with an 84% win percentage in rec. I probably have played 40% of my games alone, 55% with one or two friends and maybe 5% (out of 600 games or so) with a full squad. Playing against full squads my win percentage is probably 30% or so vs. like 90%+ against non-squads so obvious that is a huge difference. Honestly I would rather play 5 Elite 2s who were all randoms than a squad of SS1s... yes I would rather play a squad of rookies or pros than random elites but how often do you actually see full squads of rookies/pros.

                    The combination of chemistry, communication, and complimentary builds that squads bring to the table is a HUGE advantage in a long game like rec (where unlike park the better TEAM will not lose often due to random chance). So I think the first cutoff for matchmaking should be squad size, and maybe secondarily (if it didn't make matchmaking take ages) it could be something skill-based like rep/teammate grade/stats.

                    Also on a secondary note I definitely agree that the teammate grade system is way too lenient in this year's game, in that it basically allows someone to not play offense or defense without much penalty, and does not punish enough for things like bad shot selection. They need to go with a progressive penalty system where doing bad things repeatedly hurts the team-mate grade more and more.

                    They need to add in a rating system per player like they had for old vs, and when you search you can filter by % of positive ratings. Accountability works better than a system people can exploit. Some of these people have to be near 100% negative experiences lol, so the fact that people might give rage negs doesn't mean it won't even out.

                    There's no excuse for sitting in the paint or calling time outs, but I think we all do some wild stuff when people play like trash. What I do is walk the ball back to people and hand it to them when they've starved me off from the ball for 2 and a half quarters then wanna give me a look for a cheap assist.



                    I still play my heart out on D tho...



                    -Smak

                    Comment

                    • Ralcur
                      Just started!
                      • Jan 2020
                      • 2

                      #745
                      Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                      Originally posted by TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                      Anyone else getting sick of this NBA 2K cycle?

                      After a few years of this, this online hamster wheel called NBA 2K is getting a little stale.

                      1. Buy the game

                      2. Create a build

                      3. Play the game and start the endless grind for badges & ovr where you can:

                      a) Wait 20-30min to invite friends or LFG, but usually not a consistent 5
                      b) Play offline vs the boring CPU
                      c) Play with randoms where you can pull out your hair and yell at the TV while witnessing 1. Trash buddy ballers who have decided to freeze out you - the best player - because they're freakin' brilliant people. 2. "My first game" noobs learn the controls and take 99% contested shots 3. Get matched up with try hard squads 4. Have overall crackhead teammates who love to clog the paint, shoot over 3 guys in the paint, and be completely lost on D.

                      4. Repeat

                      Idk about another year of this, it's just becoming not worth it. The grind has become the entire game, and I end up running with bums I can't stand just to get badges because finding a consistent active 5 that actually has chemistry is rare af.
                      Yeah, this about sums it up for me too.

                      I've played about 20 solo rec games over the past few days, and I'm not exaggerating when I say about 18 of them were against try hard 5-stacks running zone.

                      Comment

                      • JimmyK
                        Rookie
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 165

                        #746
                        Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                        Originally posted by TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                        Anyone else getting sick of this NBA 2K cycle?

                        After a few years of this, this online hamster wheel called NBA 2K is getting a little stale.

                        1. Buy the game

                        2. Create a build

                        3. Play the game and start the endless grind for badges & ovr where you can:

                        a) Wait 20-30min to invite friends or LFG, but usually not a consistent 5
                        b) Play offline vs the boring CPU
                        c) Play with randoms where you can pull out your hair and yell at the TV while witnessing 1. Trash buddy ballers who have decided to freeze out you - the best player - because they're freakin' brilliant people. 2. "My first game" noobs learn the controls and take 99% contested shots 3. Get matched up with try hard squads 4. Have overall crackhead teammates who love to clog the paint, shoot over 3 guys in the paint, and be completely lost on D.

                        4. Repeat

                        Idk about another year of this, it's just becoming not worth it. The grind has become the entire game, and I end up running with bums I can't stand just to get badges because finding a consistent active 5 that actually has chemistry is rare af.
                        I really don't get why people think badges takes so long to get. Or that it's too much of a grind. It seems like now everyone wants a myplayer out the box to be 99 overall, max badges, or it's too much of a grind. A "grind" to me, was the whole 'road to 99' system from 2k19, not taking a few weeks to level up badges. It makes sense considering your myplayer is coming out as a rookie hence the progression.

                        Comment

                        • Thrustie
                          Pro
                          • Sep 2016
                          • 764

                          #747
                          Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                          Yeah I think the “grind” is overstated this year. I have a job, a wife and a toddler. I play a few hours a night most days. I’ve maxed my badges and have a 90 rating in week and a half.

                          It is frustrating how often full squads run in Rec, as a player who plays a lot solo. On the other hand, I have gone in with a “squad”. But like some people have alluded to the “squads” I run with are just a mix of 9 or 10 players I play with sometimes. We almost never run zone and we didn’t pick our builds to gel together. Sometimes we’ll have one shooter and the rest inside builds. Sometimes we’ll only have one C/PF and a 3 playing as a PF.

                          So yeah, I definitely see both sides. I wouldn’t want to be excluded from Rec entirely when I play with those guys because it’s definitely more fun than when I play alone. I think I’d be fine if you only got matched against other squads but I’m not sure if that would make the wait times brutal. I do think there’s some sort of algorithm around player rating. I had one single game with a 99 on my team and that game I ended up playing a squad with 3 96-99 players which is the only game I’ve had so far against a 95+.


                          Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

                          Comment

                          • The 24th Letter
                            ERA
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 39373

                            #748
                            Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                            I'm a new Rec player, haven't played consistently in some years so I understand theres history and context to take into account..

                            but from what I've heard about the "grind" I expected it to be much, much worse than what it has been....I've just been casually leveling up playing with randoms on XBO.

                            (if any squads need a center on XBO, add me)

                            I've recently ran into some the online toxicity, but overall it hasn't been that bad. Then again, I'm a defensive center. I literally enjoy finishing, rebounding and defending. I suppose for guards it's a bit more of a struggle. I can imagine that.

                            Comment

                            • TheFgGoatLikesHawks
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2019
                              • 359

                              #749
                              Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                              Give it time. Randoms will destroy your faith in humanity little by little

                              I'm sorry but our options (after paying VC), shouldn't be wait around forever to put a squad together, get HORRIBLE matchups that STILL hasn't been fixed, play offline, have to constantly dashboard to avoid noobs, or have literally the dumbest people on earth for teammates. I probably wouldn't care if 2K didn't squeeze out multi millions from VC sales and force us into this grind-only tranjectory option. Like this has become a sh**** experience when it comes to gaming, straight up. Sick of this being the only basketball game and this business model being the only multiplayer option. The 2K experience is sh** imo. I think way more people would be playing pro-am if the grind wasn't attached to it. And I cannot emphasize enough just how stupid the randoms in this game are. Literally 95% are absolute me-first low iq morons. You put 2K randoms up against any videogame random and they're hands down the worst in gaming. I blame 2K for contributing to it with this dumbed down pacifying training wheels pandering version they've created.

                              Comment

                              • Thrustie
                                Pro
                                • Sep 2016
                                • 764

                                #750
                                Re: Matchmaking in Rec is awful.

                                I think you might need to play a different game, fam...


                                Sent from my iPad using Operation Sports

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