NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

thanks for your feedback

I am affraid I tried both options with no luck. I even by myself tried with raising FOUL tendency for every player to 100, raising DRAW FOUL attribute for everyone to 100, putting both teams on PHYSICAL defense, and having all SLIDERS for fouls up to 100.

And still almost the same amount of non-shooting fouls where called.
Seems its just broken.

Btw, have anyone ever seen offensive foul (Charging) being called in this game?
What the hell does CHARGE tendency even stand for, what is its point?

1. Take Charge Tendency works in tandem with Foul, Hard Foul, Block Shot, and Contest Shot Tendencies to determine what course of action a player will take when the player being defended goes up for a shot.

2. Badges matter more than ever before in 2K20. You need to think hard about Badges in combination with Sliders & Tendencies to get the desired results.

For example, the Enforcer Badge is critical for getting high shooting foul calls in 2K20. You will get more hard & flagrant fouls with Enforcer equipped & Hard Foul at 25 than you will get without the badge & Hard Foul at 100. Every hard foul isn't called Flagrant so this increases your shooting fouls without pushing the tendencies or foul sliders to extremes. Over 50% of the players on my roster have the Enforcer badge as a result.

Another example, the Off-Ball Pest Badge is critical for getting off-ball personal foul calls. The higher this badge is set for a player, the more likely they are to be called for "holding" players seeking to get free off screens or juke moves off-the-ball. Over 80% of the players on my roster have this badge at Bronze or above. I'm seeing more of these called in User/CPU games than CPU/CPU, but still around 1 per game on average when combined with high Strength slider settings.

Last example, the Pick Dodger Badge is critical for getting Illegal Screen fouls to be called. The higher this badge is set, the more likely that an opposing screener will stick a leg out or set a moving screen. Over 90% of the players on my roster have this badge at Bronze or above. This should be the most called non-shooting foul in the game so it is important to also move the Foul Slider to a high level and limit how many players have the Brick Wall Badge equipped (only for elite screen setters).

3. Block Shot Tendencies will result in more shooting foul calls than Foul, Hard Foul, or Take Charge Tendencies on certain slider sets. This will depend on your Shot Contest Strength Sliders and Block Attribute Sliders, but block attempts usually translate into realistic fouls while the Foul & Hard Foul Tendencies determine how often a player commits an intentional foul in situations where they are beaten to the rim and reacting from behind.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

1. Take Charge Tendency works in tandem with Foul, Hard Foul, Block Shot, and Contest Shot Tendencies to determine what course of action a player will take when the player being defended goes up for a shot.

2. Badges matter more than ever before in 2K20. You need to think hard about Badges in combination with Sliders & Tendencies to get the desired results.

For example, the Enforcer Badge is critical for getting high shooting foul calls in 2K20. You will get more hard & flagrant fouls with Enforcer equipped & Hard Foul at 25 than you will get without the badge & Hard Foul at 100. Every hard foul isn't called Flagrant so this increases your shooting fouls without pushing the tendencies or foul sliders to extremes. Over 50% of the players on my roster have the Enforcer badge as a result.

Another example, the Off-Ball Pest Badge is critical for getting off-ball personal foul calls. The higher this badge is set for a player, the more likely they are to be called for "holding" players seeking to get free off screens or juke moves off-the-ball. Over 80% of the players on my roster have this badge at Bronze or above. I'm seeing more of these called in User/CPU games than CPU/CPU, but still around 1 per game on average when combined with high Strength slider settings.

Last example, the Pick Dodger Badge is critical for getting Illegal Screen fouls to be called. The higher this badge is set, the more likely that an opposing screener will stick a leg out or set a moving screen. Over 90% of the players on my roster have this badge at Bronze or above. This should be the most called non-shooting foul in the game so it is important to also move the Foul Slider to a high level and limit how many players have the Brick Wall Badge equipped (only for elite screen setters).

3. Block Shot Tendencies will result in more shooting foul calls than Foul, Hard Foul, or Take Charge Tendencies on certain slider sets. This will depend on your Shot Contest Strength Sliders and Block Attribute Sliders, but block attempts usually translate into realistic fouls while the Foul & Hard Foul Tendencies determine how often a player commits an intentional foul in situations where they are beaten to the rim and reacting from behind.

I think this is where the Charge Card badge would have come into play. Unfortunately the badge seemed to vary between being bad and being so out of control that players were using it to constantly nurse charge calls in the backcourt,which led to it being scrapped.

[Kushmir]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I agree with all of this.

So how do we resolve these issues?
The big problem with sliders/rosters that I'm seeing now, is they're based heavily on user vs cpu or cpu vs cpu gameplay/theories.
User v user testing/participation that incorporates all of these options to see the real limitations that crop up. It would be great if custom rosters/sliders could be used in Online Quick Games to avoid the administrative aspects of running an active league.

I wish it were that easy....the only thing we can do it make suggestions re: the known loopholes. All of these fixes are on the developer side.

And you're right, PVP is where the testing should be done, because its when the AI often gets exposed.

Btw, have anyone ever seen offensive foul (Charging) being called in this game? What the hell does CHARGE tendency even stand for, what is its point?

The lack of offensive fouls is one of the biggest holes in gameplay. It means users can be haphazard with turbo and collide with defenders with no downside. And its weird because 2K17 had great balance that punished players who didn't use turbo strategically:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nt4e0F6tcZ4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l7pNp8rBYvg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's a 2K19 Charge call that shocked me but it highlights two issues. 1) AI players have to step up to take charges more often instead of always going for blocks 2) the hop-step that displaces/collides with the defender should be one of the most consistent charge calls in the game:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eUs9NIIf1qg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A "Take Charge" button is a waste of control space. If a defender is in position/the offensive player out of control? Its an offensive foul.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I wish it were that easy....the only thing we can do it make suggestions re: the known loopholes. All of these fixes are on the developer side.

And you're right, PVP is where the testing should be done, because its when the AI often gets exposed.



The lack of offensive fouls is one of the biggest holes in gameplay. It means users can be haphazard with turbo and collide with defenders with no downside. And its weird because 2K17 had great balance that punished players who didn't use turbo strategically:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nt4e0F6tcZ4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l7pNp8rBYvg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here's a 2K19 Charge call that shocked me but it highlights two issues. 1) AI players have to step up to take charges more often instead of always going for blocks 2) the hop-step that displaces/collides with the defender should be one of the most consistent charge calls in the game:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eUs9NIIf1qg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A "Take Charge" button is a waste of control space. If a defender is in position/the offensive player out of control? Its an offensive foul.

I think part of the problem is that there are too many badges which can effectively let offensive players push or slide defenders out of the way, instead of creating the appropriate contact animations.It is made worse by certain badges stacking on top of each other.

On the defensive side, I just learned while testing badges that both Clamps and Moving Truck can trigger during steal animations that create contact.So basically with the right players, you can lock people up by pushing LS in the right direction and spamming the steal button. At this point I feel like certain gameplay elements really need a serious re work.

[CelticLG]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

For example, the Enforcer Badge is critical for getting high shooting foul calls in 2K20. You will get more hard & flagrant fouls with Enforcer equipped & Hard Foul at 25 than you will get without the badge & Hard Foul at 100. Every hard foul isn't called Flagrant so this increases your shooting fouls without pushing the tendencies or foul sliders to extremes. Over 50% of the players on my roster have the Enforcer badge as a result.

This is very interesting, what about gameplay sliders, do you have high or low values for “shot contest”? And for jump shot gather and release?

[duce]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

And you're right, PVP is where the testing should be done, because its when the AI often gets exposed.

If there is anyone doing this kind of testing/playing on PS4 let me know, I'll join up your MyLeague. I also have one currently running with this in mind.

Charging calls are rare, and, to a lesser extent, so are Blocking calls. Its mostly an issue when users are able to turbo past other players, which I feel can be mitigated via rosters/sliders. From a gameplay standpoint, I've been able to draw a couple charges vs users, but without really knowing how to replicate it. CPU I've seen maybe 1 charge.

Charging and Jump Shot fouls are something I don't expect to see fixed this year. What else would be in the, let's say, top 5 sim gameplay issues for yall?

[MrWrestling3]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

If there is anyone doing this kind of testing/playing on PS4 let me know, I'll join up your MyLeague. I also have one currently running with this in mind.

Charging calls are rare, and, to a lesser extent, so are Blocking calls. Its mostly an issue when users are able to turbo past other players, which I feel can be mitigated via rosters/sliders. From a gameplay standpoint, I've been able to draw a couple charges vs users, but without really knowing how to replicate it. CPU I've seen maybe 1 charge.

Charging and Jump Shot fouls are something I don't expect to see fixed this year. What else would be in the, let's say, top 5 sim gameplay issues for yall?

I think this is more or less what needs to be done,if we really want to dig into what's wrong with the game, and try to figure out how to "fix" it.

Basically just a Dummy MyLeague for testing purposes, and a pool of guys to address things.It would be a real bonus if we could get both guys recording game play to get a good objective look from both ends.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

This is very interesting, what about gameplay sliders, do you have high or low values for “shot contest”? And for jump shot gather and release?

Eccentric has been the best source for Shot Defense Strength sliders so see his thread (2K16-2K20) in the Sliders forum.

There is more contact the higher each of those sliders go. That contact doesn’t always result in foul calls, but it triggers the animations that would/should be fouls if the game’s foul engine wasn’t a mess. There’s no real upper limit, but I’ve seen fewer foul calls on obvious contact when these are above 95.

Shot Contest can go up to 100 since it is just a frequency slider. It’s going to depend on Shot Defense Strength, On-Ball Defense, Defensive Awareness, and Acceleration to trigger actual shot contests though.

[duce]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Just updated OP with CelticLG's new roster

[coldkevin]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

Eccentric has been the best source for Shot Defense Strength sliders so see his thread (2K16-2K20) in the Sliders forum.

There is more contact the higher each of those sliders go. That contact doesn’t always result in foul calls, but it triggers the animations that would/should be fouls if the game’s foul engine wasn’t a mess. There’s no real upper limit, but I’ve seen fewer foul calls on obvious contact when these are above 95.

Shot Contest can go up to 100 since it is just a frequency slider. It’s going to depend on Shot Defense Strength, On-Ball Defense, Defensive Awareness, and Acceleration to trigger actual shot contests though.

are Eccentric's sliders on psn?

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

are Eccentric's sliders on psn?

I don't think he posts full slider sets, but check out his posts on the defense sliders. Lot of good info there about what these sliders really do in-game.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball-sliders/842866-shot-defense-strength-sliders-explained.html

- The higher you set Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff), defenders will be more aggressive in attempting to contest when a dribbler attacks the basket, and the better those defenders are at getting into the best possible position to contest a layup/dunk.
- The higher you set Layup Defense Strength (Release), defenders will be more aggressive in attempting to contest once the dribbler is in the air about to finish the layup/dunk, and the animations triggered will be more successful at affecting (or even blocking) the layup/dunk.
- The higher you set Jump Shot Defense Strength (Gather), off-ball defenders will be more aggressive when fighting through screens and/or closing down an open shooter, as well as more effective when guarding a shooter on the perimeter (as they are quicker to react when you decide to spot up).
- The higher you set Jump Shot Defense Strength (Release), shot contests and block attempts will trigger better animations that will cover more distance while jumping to contest a shot, meaning defenders can be further away from a shooter while still being a threat to block or severely affect shot success.

I've tested all of these for 2K20 to confirm they still have the same effect in-game.

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

So, does anyone know how does CPU decides about priority levels from which the play is going to be called for an individual player?

Also, what else influences the choice of player that is going to get played called? Except Touches tendency...

Is current performance and possible hot/cold status a factor too?


Does Freelance repeat/do not repeat have an influence on which priority levels are being picked?


PS Ive noticed several people with indepth knowledge about the game writing and reading this topic, and some others, but not appeared on the main board. So that why I will paste this question here also, in hope someone can help me with this burning mistery. It just burns my head, I cannot comprehend just on the base of watching plays being called. Just to many factors involved, it seems...

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

I cannot comprehend just on the base of watching plays being called. Just to many factors involved, it seems...

That’s because there are a lot of factors involved, some intentional and others due to bugs.

Let’s start with ACE:
ACE controls play calls for the first few minutes of the 1st & 3rd quarters, the final 2 minutes of the 2nd & 4th quarters, and the final possession of any quarter. These are usually series plays to start quarters and preset plays outside of your team’s playbooks at the end of quarters. Unfortunately most of these plays are absolutely terrible in terms of timing and execution and ruin end game scenarios (which can’t be fixed).

Next, let’s go to bugs:
The same bugs that have existed since around 2K17/2K18. Guard Post Up is a play type that overrides every other setting and will take priority over even the Touches tendency. If you set it for a player (at any Priority 1-4) on the team with at least 1 Guard Post Up play in the playbook, then that’s the dominant play call for that team. The next dominant play types are Isolation Point & Post Up High. These will override other priorities for the player, but I haven’t seen it override the Touches tendency.
Note: I’ve decided to remove all Guard Post Up plays from the playbooks, but leave the Play Type assigned to get those players those ACE end game sets instead.

Lastly, how it’s supposed to work:
Touches tendency basically chooses the player on the floor with the highest tendency as the default person to run offense through. This will also be the player who gets the ball in ACE’s end quarter or end game sets. Unfortunately this is also the player who initiates offense in the 2nd/3rd quarter which means you can get a guy like Embiid or A.Davis running point guard ISO’s for a play to start a quarter if they have the highest Touches value on the team (a new bug to 2K20).

[Vedreanu]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

First of all, thanks for your detailed reply! Much appreciated!

That’s because there are a lot of factors involved, some intentional and others due to bugs.

Let’s start with ACE:
ACE controls play calls for the first few minutes of the 1st & 3rd quarters, the final 2 minutes of the 2nd & 4th quarters, and the final possession of any quarter. These are usually series plays to start quarters and preset plays outside of your team’s playbooks at the end of quarters. Unfortunately most of these plays are absolutely terrible in terms of timing and execution and ruin end game scenarios (which can’t be fixed).

This is what I observed to be true while watching CPU vs CPU a lot. Recently I've been trying to achieve a 3p shootout game, as in real life, not by raising tendencies but by applying correct plays and play priorities.

There were some games in which I manage to achieve a fantastic game-flow (when using a hybrid version of Tynoles, Celtics and mine roster) in the first half, but it started to get out of order in the 2nd!

These were the moments went CPU for some reason just decided to drive the every bloody posession to the rim, usually in an OCD-like manner!

This made me very furious since it seemed I couldnt have done anything to change it.

Your descriptions sit well with what I have observed in this sense.

Next, let’s go to bugs:
The same bugs that have existed since around 2K17/2K18. Guard Post Up is a play type that overrides every other setting and will take priority over even the Touches tendency. If you set it for a player (at any Priority 1-4) on the team with at least 1 Guard Post Up play in the playbook, then that’s the dominant play call for that team. The next dominant play types are Isolation Point & Post Up High. These will override other priorities for the player, but I haven’t seen it override the Touches tendency.
Note: I’ve decided to remove all Guard Post Up plays from the playbooks, but leave the Play Type assigned to get those players those ACE end game sets instead.

I was not using ISO plays as much in my versions of rosters, but for sure I have noticed for instance UTAH JAZZ using Gobert with post up high all the freaking time. I assigned him some other play types and priorites in order to try to replicate his real-life on court behavior, which is bloody hard by itself, even without such bugs.

Anyways, yes, Gobert is always in post up high mode, so frustrating!
But I guess its also an important part of Utahs and his game, so dunno how that will look withouth this play type.

Lastly, how it’s supposed to work:
Touches tendency basically chooses the player on the floor with the highest tendency as the default person to run offense through. This will also be the player who gets the ball in ACE’s end quarter or end game sets. Unfortunately this is also the player who initiates offense in the 2nd/3rd quarter which means you can get a guy like Embiid or A.Davis running point guard ISO’s for a play to start a quarter if they have the highest Touches value on the team (a new bug to 2K20).

Jesus, this is EXACTLY what I've observed recently and noted in this post (the 2nd screenshot):
Myeres Leonard calls himself an ISO play FFS?




Do you know what else have I observed, if you are interested?

1) high scoring wings receive very low amount of plays if not set very high with their touches. The most obvious examples for me were DUNCAN ROBINSON and MIDDLETON. Just couldnt get them going with their 3p game, especially Middleton, even when setting his touches on par with Giannis' and Bledsoe's!?

2) another thing that drove me crazy a lot is no matter the PLAY DIAGRAMS in the playbook, 3p plays almost always ended up at the top of the perimeter or at the L-C or R-C part of it. Very very rare in the corners, except when in transition. I manually edited 3p plays, expelled all those that werent ending in corners, added only "elevators" and such, and still the same kept happening.

3) I was recently talking with one user of this forum about CPU plays being called and play diagrams - his opinion is plays are being called correctly during in-game, just the diagrams are unprecise. What are your thoughts on that?

4) FREELANCES! When do they kick in?
If I understood you well, this is the case:

=> at the beggining and end of the match, CPU/ACE suspends the playbook and uses only default set plays/series. Those series (of plays) consists of 8 basic plays that can be found in the in-game menu OFFENSIVE SETTINGS (Floppy, Break double screen etc.). Is this correct?


Are teams set in their Freelances all the time? Are the player following Freelance structure all the time, or just during the time of "playbook suspension"?

And is this a correct observation:
When a player has "NONE" set as one (or more) of his priorites, series (of plays) from one of 4 FREELANCES will kick in for him at that point?



At the end - am I even using the terms "series" and "plays" correctly in context of Freelances. According to my understanding, "series" is consisted of the default set of sub-plays, not plays from the Playbook, but from those 8 basic plays like floppy etc...


Thanks for your patience for reading and answering.

(PS After your answer, I will publish what I have just discovered regarding non shooting fouls, it might be a game changer!)

[mb625]

Re: NBA 2K20 Simulation Basketball Wiki

=> at the beggining and end of the match, CPU/ACE suspends the playbook and uses only default set plays/series. Those series (of plays) consists of 8 basic plays that can be found in the in-game menu OFFENSIVE SETTINGS (Floppy, Break double screen etc.). Is this correct?

[/I]

I'm not completely sure, but from my experience, in end of game situations, the CPU tends to run plays containing the word "End." This is more my experience from Smart Plays as I don't play offline all that much anymore, but it seems to be a tendency with the CPU as well.