Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

[tru11]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

If Steph Curry selected the best possible shots he's ever taken, he still wouldn't shoot 80% from 3 every game.

It's fundamentally broken mechanics, and there's no real way to argue around it, sorry dude.

Being able to shoot the ball from through a screening player's head is not basketball.

Curry is less then 50% from 3.

Same badges and same ratings should get a similar result.

It should be a good start.

Off the dribble 3s and all these moving screens are just silly.

Its arcade as hell and should stick to park and cages.

Jrc needs sim sliders.


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[Real2KInsider]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

If Steph Curry selected the best possible shots he's ever taken, he still wouldn't shoot 80% from 3 every game.

If Steph Curry played in an empty gym, he'd shoot 90%.

Additionally:
The score of this season's All-Star game was 157-155.
Last year was 178-164.

Funny how basketball statistics change once every player on the court is an All-Star. Don't look at basketball games where 3/5ths of the players on the court are role players as a barometer for games where everyone is a 90+.

It's fundamentally broken mechanics, and there's no real way to argue around it, sorry dude.

Show us the tape. A box score provides only surface level information and isn't evidence of evenly matched skill.

[Gosens6]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

If Steph Curry played in an empty gym, he'd shoot 90%.

Additionally:
The score of this season's All-Star game was 157-155.
Last year was 178-164.

Funny how basketball statistics change once every player on the court is an All-Star. Don't look at basketball games where 3/5ths of the players on the court are role players as a barometer for games where everyone is a 90+.



Show us the tape. A box score provides only surface level information and isn't evidence of evenly matched skill.

Bro, really? You want to use an All_Star game as an example to defend this BS?

Okay, fine, I'll bite. In the 2019 All Star game, Team Lebron shot 38% from deep, while team Giannis shot 35% from deep.

Curry himself shot 23% from deep in that game.

There's no defending 2Ks ****ty, broken mechanics when it comes to shooting.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

Shot selection is the biggest skill gap in the game, and always has been.

I don't think that's true unless your idea of shot selection means: running a high level offense where you always get a great shot. However, you are leaving out defense which is also a big 'skill gap' and the two can benefit each other. I am good at 2k, but I can play like absolute trash if I'm on a trash team. You don't get shot selection choices if nobody gives you the ball, or when they give you the ball you've been iced out for a quarter or it'd be a bad shot if you took it.



Getting wide open is the single biggest factor in 2k, ok, but I don't agree that it takes heavy skill gap to get wide open shots. Nor do I think anything that happened in rec is at all organic because REC KIDS ARE REALLY BUMS. If you can tell me everyone in the game was at least 6/10 good at the game, I'd take it seriously.



To me the biggest skill gap in the game has always been passing though. It's what leads to good shots. Passing as in shifting the D by a bit of movement, waiting for the right moment, and getting someone a wide open shot when that opening happens. You basically have to be aware of every player and understand what they are going to do to do it successfully. I dunno how one can skillfully select a shot. It's a binary choice: shoot it, don't shoot it. Getting open w/ dribbles and picks yea that's something... but I don't think it takes a lot of skill in comparison to running a real offense. So many tools at your disposal when you play 2k... it's amazing how many aren't used. The thing about it, then, is that 2k is balanced for the meta.



I dunno if I've seen anything stupid OP yet though. Just really bad ball. Oops are funny and they should be a little easier to contest, but I have no big problem. In L*ve, you could steal those all day. I also have a problem with whatever the no icon button is that you press to fling the ball downcourt after a reb, probably the most braindead mechanic. I think if you do that on the break it should go out of bounds way more often, dudes aren't even looking, they are literally spamming it as they come down, that should be just flung somewhere.



-Smak

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

I don't think that's true unless your idea of shot selection means: running a high level offense where you always get a great shot. However, you are leaving out defense which is also a big 'skill gap' and the two can benefit each other.

Good defense is essentially taking options away and forcing the offense into a less-than-desirable shot. People get way too focused on outcomes (releases/contests) in this game, and always have.

I am good at 2k, but I can play like absolute trash if I'm on a trash team. You don't get shot selection choices if nobody gives you the ball, or when they give you the ball you've been iced out for a quarter or it'd be a bad shot if you took it.

These are variables that are not the fault of game design. A player can't play with randoms and pretend to be competitive. If a player is going to point fingers any time they get dumpstered by a cohesive unit, they aren't as good as they think they are.

To me the biggest skill gap in the game has always been passing though. It's what leads to good shots.

When I say shot selection I really mean it in the broadest sense. Creating for others is an aspect of shot selection. Offensive possessions in basketball are about creating the highest quality shot within the allotted time.

We've all heard the expression that sports are 85% mental & 15% physical. Making proper reads and decisions in ANY game or sport matters far more than the technical precision/execution.

Only bad players shift the blame. When a player loses at anything, it's almost always due to a sub-optimal decision. Rarely is it due to something they couldn't control. People innately hate to hear that they are wrong. Few players are willing to analyze their play patterns, or learn & adjust what they're doing. It's the same in life as it is in gaming. The majority of people would rather Doc Rivers their way through a situation and complain when it doesn't work out.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

Bro, really? You want to use an All_Star game as an example to defend this BS?

Yes, because production changes based on the quality of players on the floor, roles, etc. Surely you've heard of "Olympic Melo"?

You might as well be trying to compare the college game with the NBA.

Okay, fine, I'll bite. In the 2019 All Star game, Team Lebron shot 38% from deep, while team Giannis shot 35% from deep.

You're missing the forest for the trees. IRL teams aren't 5-on-5 Superstar games. You're looking for realism where none exists.

Results in a video game should be repeatable with minimal variance. If a team is playing less defense than the ball boys in the Long Distance Shootout, there's no reason shots should arbitrarily miss.

Nobody is arguing that the offense/defense in NBA 2K is perfect. If a team got dumpstered like that, it wasn't due to game mechanics. One team didn't show up.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

Good defense is essentially taking options away and forcing the offense into a less-than-desirable shot. People get way too focused on outcomes (releases/contests) in this game, and always have.



These are variables that are not the fault of game design. A player can't play with randoms and pretend to be competitive. If a player is going to point fingers any time they get dumpstered by a cohesive unit, they aren't as good as they think they are.



When I say shot selection I really mean it in the broadest sense. Creating for others is an aspect of shot selection. Offensive possessions in basketball are about creating the highest quality shot within the allotted time.

We've all heard the expression that sports are 85% mental & 15% physical. Making proper reads and decisions in ANY game or sport matters far more than the technical precision/execution.

Only bad players shift the blame. When a player loses at anything, it's almost always due to a sub-optimal decision. Rarely is it due to something they couldn't control. People innately hate to hear that they are wrong. Few players are willing to analyze their play patterns, or learn & adjust what they're doing. It's the same in life as it is in gaming. The majority of people would rather Doc Rivers their way through a situation and complain when it doesn't work out.

I feel like you're underestimating how bad people are. The only way you can truly showcase how good you are is to be able to reb yourself, bring the ball up yourself, and make a play for someone or yourself... every time. On D tho you can't do that. If someone is chasing the ball around, you can't guard 2 men.



Wide open shots are what wins games. We agree there. However, the point of a lot of these people (cuz I've been reading it and discussing it for like 4 years), is that getting wide open shots is not a game plan. That's the 'fatal flaw' of 2k. They are getting better, but when it's always a good play to pass a dunk up to pass for a corner 3, that's a bit insane.



And the harder they work to make shots less 'wide open' in various circumstances, people who run good offense will get punished by faster closes or larger contest ranges, where as the people who use something like picks or whatever to get wide, get their feet set, etc.



Picks are strong enough at base level, on HoF they are just stupid. They become their own strength haha. They are an active thing that has anti-graviton force.



I mean I've personally never seen someone score 100 except one time in L*ve when a dude from OS quit the game after haha. Dude who were ya, come out I know you know that stuff was funny. But we all sold out at that point. He was just making stupid shots. If people aren't even good enough to understand if someone has shot more than 30 threes that you need to double/triple them just for your dignity, just to get in their head... I dunno what to say. I mean basically at some point you have to put an end to their enjoyment. That's still possible. In that way, yea I've been on people with a 7'2 guy trying to stop them from running behind a pick and shooting a 3. But still, people are bad... and people are so bad that it's kinda tough to punish them so hard for leaving people wide open. At the highest levels tho, I do think it's more balanced than ever. (and that's something, coming from me... Mr. "I care about balance above all.)


-Smak

[Thrustie]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

Yes, because production changes based on the quality of players on the floor, roles, etc. Surely you've heard of "Olympic Melo"?

You might as well be trying to compare the college game with the NBA.



You're missing the forest for the trees. IRL teams aren't 5-on-5 Superstar games. You're looking for realism where none exists.

Results in a video game should be repeatable with minimal variance. If a team is playing less defense than the ball boys in the Long Distance Shootout, there's no reason shots should arbitrarily miss.

Nobody is arguing that the offense/defense in NBA 2K is perfect. If a team got dumpstered like that, it wasn't due to game mechanics. One team didn't show up.

You type as if you’ve never played a Rec/Pro-Am game before, not gonna lie. If the “repeatable action” is a pull up 3, an off balance leaner or a catch and shoot 40 feet from the basket, I would argue, it SHOULD arbitrarily miss sometimes or be much harder to green. If you wanna argue that it’s a video game so those should all be treated as viable great shot selections.... go nuts... but I would still say that even from a video game perspective it’s poor balancing when the easiest strategy is also the most effective.


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[howardphillips214]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

I've played 1000+ Rec games every year except 2k21 because I'm holding out for next gen.

I have a winning record every year because i play with friends a lot. But I've also been the best player on the court when i play with randoms. So sometimes I've actually been the catalyst for us to win.

I don't have a set position, I'll play 1-5.

Every. Time. I've gone down by 30 or more, the opposite team has a shooter going nuts. Sometimes it's my man, sometimes not.

But it's never the CENTER scoring 50. It's never the SLASHER just BODYING everyone.

It's always the 3. The 3 kills every year no matter what.

You guys wanna keep playing the same old game, chasing a shooter or 2 or 3 blasting 80% from deep go ahead.

I'm done with it.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

I've played 1000+ Rec games every year except 2k21 because I'm holding out for next gen.

I have a winning record every year because i play with friends a lot. But I've also been the best player on the court when i play with randoms. So sometimes I've actually been the catalyst for us to win.

I don't have a set position, I'll play 1-5.

Every. Time. I've gone down by 30 or more, the opposite team has a shooter going nuts. Sometimes it's my man, sometimes not.

But it's never the CENTER scoring 50. It's never the SLASHER just BODYING everyone.

It's always the 3. The 3 kills every year no matter what.

You guys wanna keep playing the same old game, chasing a shooter or 2 or 3 blasting 80% from deep go ahead.

I'm done with it.

I actually saw this yesterday, lol....two slashers conpletely took over the game and came back from 15 on my squad. Still a bit salty about it TBH.

That's not to say that shooters aren't still the games dominant build...

This may all be moot soon since it appears 2K is changing their whole MC infrastructure, but something as simple as cleaning up screens would open up the game a lot more.

[Gosens6]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

I actually saw this yesterday, lol....two slashers conpletely took over the game and came back from 15 on my squad. Still a bit salty about it TBH.

That's not to say that shooters aren't still the games dominant build...

This may all be moot soon since it appears 2K is changing their whole MC infrastructure, but something as simple as cleaning up screens would open up the game a lot more.

Hey 24 can you drop some knowledge on me about this? I haven't heard anything about it

[howardphillips214]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

I actually saw this yesterday, lol....two slashers conpletely took over the game and came back from 15 on my squad. Still a bit salty about it TBH.

That's not to say that shooters aren't still the games dominant build...

This may all be moot soon since it appears 2K is changing their whole MC infrastructure, but something as simple as cleaning up screens would open up the game a lot more.

You're right. I actually had a 50 piece on my slasher last year, but i had to work my tail off for it. I also had gotten pretty decent at shooting with a 65 three so that helped.

I guess "never" wasn't the right word. Just "rarely" i guess.

[Thrustie]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

I actually saw this yesterday, lol....two slashers conpletely took over the game and came back from 15 on my squad. Still a bit salty about it TBH.

That's not to say that shooters aren't still the games dominant build...

This may all be moot soon since it appears 2K is changing their whole MC infrastructure, but something as simple as cleaning up screens would open up the game a lot more.

I’ve actually seen 5 out strategies with the only non shooter being a dribbling PG who just isos and drives. With online latency, it’s not that difficult to beat a guy 1 on 1 with space. Anyone who collapsed from the corners to help, he would kick to their man. It was very effective but at the end of the day, the PG was only scoring 2s and you’d still get the odd miss when he kicked it out. Plus they had very little interior protection so they conceded a lot at the defensive end. I’ve still lost most of the games I’ve played with randoms against that look but it doesn’t feel as insurmountable as a team taking almost entirely 3s and hitting 75% of them.

I’m definitely hoping next gen shakes up the meta. I’m pretty doubtful it will because it seems like a lot of players are happy with it. Unlike a lot of folks on here, I still find my enjoyment in this game. It would be more enjoyable with more build variety, more viable strategies and less cheese though.


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[The 24th Letter]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

Hey 24 can you drop some knowledge on me about this? I haven't heard anything about it

Just going off what Mike has said regarding the badge and progression system being different in NG. Maybe I'm being a bit presumptuous...sorry if I got your hopes up, lol

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Twitter and YouTube killed 2K basketball

You type as if you’ve never played a Rec/Pro-Am game before, not gonna lie. If the “repeatable action” is a pull up 3, an off balance leaner or a catch and shoot 40 feet from the basket, I would argue, it SHOULD arbitrarily miss sometimes or be much harder to green.

Ever been No-Scoped by a Sniper Rifle?

If someone picks up 2K for the first time, they are not going to be doing all that w/ any type of consistency. The question isn't whether it should be repeatable, it's how hard do the developers need to make it; all while providing a satisfying difficulty curve & game experience for the user.

If you wanna argue that it’s a video game so those should all be treated as viable great shot selections.... go nuts... but I would still say that even from a video game perspective it’s poor balancing when the easiest strategy is also the most effective.

I don't play 2K competitively anymore because I stopped finding the game strategically stimulating (though I suppose the de-evolution of MyTeam w/ clown cards is what really killed my interest).

The gameplay has always been about finding something to exploit (thus guaranteeing repeatable actions), and has been for 20 years. That doesn't make it much different from the vast majority of video games.

I'm personally more into games where there is actual depth to my decision points. I know people WISH they could get this fix from a basketball game but it's just never going to happen. 2K is designed to be Checkers rather than Chess. Or perhaps more appropriately, Checkers 5.3 after 20 years of adding game modes and UI. The core of the game is what it is.