Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

So again, I'm not here to rip on their roster or anything. I simply want this to be a reference point that NO roster is a panacea for the gameplay - and any one that tells you otherwise is not being honest (or the very least, doesn't understand what's happening at a micro level).

It's easy to "SAY" the game plays better, but that provides zero context for the "HOW" and "WHAT".

Devin Vassell: 2-10 FG
DeJounte Murray: 1-11 FG
Patty Mills: 1-10 FG
Landry Shamet: 0-11 FG (0-3 3PT)
Chris Chiozza: 1-7 FG (1-2 3PT)

The guard play in this game was ATROCIOUS, and not just limited to the Spurs. As mentioned before, players were taking contested shots in the paint. This includes players on the Nets like Shamet and Chiozza shooting 1-18 on the team that WON by 35.

All it looks like to me is users trading one problem for another. That isn't progress. Can't get beat by Pick & Rolls if players never properly execute them, eh?

(While this was run on default sliders rather than their custom set, I'm not convinced those would make too much of a difference. I would anticipate those to change success rates, rather than radically change AI decisions like Landry Shamet pounding the paint for contested runners)

[BaselineBakes]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

(While this was run on default sliders rather than their custom set, I'm not convinced those would make too much of a difference. I would anticipate those to change success rates, rather than radically change AI decisions like Landry Shamet pounding the paint for contested runners)

Tendency sliders have quite a big impact on AI decisions in my experience. Would probably want to run some games with those inputted just to get a full scope of how whatever rosters your using may work.


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[rudyjuly2]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

The doubling mechanic needs to have some randomness and smartness to it. If there is an obvious mismatch in the Post like a big on a PG them there should be a double 100% of the time. If a guy is going crazy scoring points then the Defense should start to double and help a lot more but that needs to be random. Nobody wants binary 100% decision making. But this game doesn’t seem to have that. The devs couldn’t find a way for help defence/rotation and double teaming to work so they just turned them all off. I really wish they would add those things to the base sliders and make them work! Same goes for the bad hedging on PNR.

They currently have a defensive help slider. At 100 it should feature incredibly aggressive rotations leaving shooters open on the perimeter but it doesn’t do much. If the devs want to close their eyes and not fix anything for the rest of this games lifespan I won’t be happy. But at least fix the sliders so we can try and fix the games ourselves!

I’m not a fan of having to switch sides and adjust cpu coaching tendencies before every game but if users are able to find some work arounds that help why isn’t 2K? Are they not taking this seriously enough because this only affects offline gamers who don’t purchase VC? There are big time flaws that are really hurting an otherwise potentially great game.

[NYJin2011tm]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Lol these were cpu vs cpu simmed games


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Darn you for giving me hope lol. I feel like jumpshooting D sliders are backwards from what they used to be. I was playing the Rockets and as a test put them in 0 for a quarter. They couldn’t hit anything. Then next quarter I put them at 100 without touching shooting sliders and they hit just about everything.

Didn’t it used to be lower jumpshooting D sliders meant worse D?

[lemarflacco]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

So again, I'm not here to rip on their roster or anything. I simply want this to be a reference point that NO roster is a panacea for the gameplay - and any one that tells you otherwise is not being honest (or the very least, doesn't understand what's happening at a micro level).

It's easy to "SAY" the game plays better, but that provides zero context for the "HOW" and "WHAT".

Devin Vassell: 2-10 FG
DeJounte Murray: 1-11 FG
Patty Mills: 1-10 FG
Landry Shamet: 0-11 FG (0-3 3PT)
Chris Chiozza: 1-7 FG (1-2 3PT)

The guard play in this game was ATROCIOUS, and not just limited to the Spurs. As mentioned before, players were taking contested shots in the paint. This includes players on the Nets like Shamet and Chiozza shooting 1-18 on the team that WON by 35.

All it looks like to me is users trading one problem for another. That isn't progress. Can't get beat by Pick & Rolls if players never properly execute them, eh?

(While this was run on default sliders rather than their custom set, I'm not convinced those would make too much of a difference. I would anticipate those to change success rates, rather than radically change AI decisions like Landry Shamet pounding the paint for contested runners)

You did a cpu versus cpu sim. You crossed over in to a different thread of getting accurate cpu versus cpu stats. I think we were trying to find a way to improve the cpu's defense and if your using the ATD roster, it definitely improves on the cpu defense if you are PLAYING against them.

[Optimus James]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Im tired of hearing about sliders, a good portion of the installed base of this game play online. If you exclusively play against bots and can tune everything to your liking then you should be having a separate convo.

[strosdood]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

So again, I'm not here to rip on their roster or anything. I simply want this to be a reference point that NO roster is a panacea for the gameplay - and any one that tells you otherwise is not being honest (or the very least, doesn't understand what's happening at a micro level).

It's easy to "SAY" the game plays better, but that provides zero context for the "HOW" and "WHAT".

Devin Vassell: 2-10 FG
DeJounte Murray: 1-11 FG
Patty Mills: 1-10 FG
Landry Shamet: 0-11 FG (0-3 3PT)
Chris Chiozza: 1-7 FG (1-2 3PT)

The guard play in this game was ATROCIOUS, and not just limited to the Spurs. As mentioned before, players were taking contested shots in the paint. This includes players on the Nets like Shamet and Chiozza shooting 1-18 on the team that WON by 35.

All it looks like to me is users trading one problem for another. That isn't progress. Can't get beat by Pick & Rolls if players never properly execute them, eh?

(While this was run on default sliders rather than their custom set, I'm not convinced those would make too much of a difference. I would anticipate those to change success rates, rather than radically change AI decisions like Landry Shamet pounding the paint for contested runners)

Game plays great for me with the ATD roster.......stats are in line of realism 10 games into MyNba.......weird u supposedly only did 2 sims and got the worst 2 games ever recorded in 2k history lol [emoji848]


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[Real2KInsider]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Game plays great for me with the ATD roster.......stats are in line of realism 10 games into MyNba.......weird u supposedly only did 2 sims and got the worst 2 games ever recorded in 2k history lol [emoji848]

and any one that tells you otherwise is not being honest (or the very least, doesn't understand what's happening at a micro level).

Very weird.

Im tired of hearing about sliders, a good portion of the installed base of this game play online. If you exclusively play against bots and can tune everything to your liking then you should be having a separate convo.

Correct-amundo.

You did a cpu versus cpu sim. You crossed over in to a different thread of getting accurate cpu versus cpu stats. I think we were trying to find a way to improve the cpu's defense and if your using the ATD roster, it definitely improves on the cpu defense if you are PLAYING against them.

I'm looking for gameplay, not stats.
Stats are simply the product of what happens on the court (and I am obviously providing context to the box scores here).

The Spurs shot selection was trash irrespective of whether or not the shots were going in.

If people are going to suggest the roster improves the AI's "defense", specific examples are going to be much more impactful to the discussion (and therefore useful to a developer) than broad generalizations.

My initial hypothesis was that roster editors usually accomplish this by nerfing the offense. Through one game, I didn't see much to sway me away from that.

[lemarflacco]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Very weird.




Correct-amundo.



I'm looking for gameplay, not stats.
Stats are simply the product of what happens on the court (and I am obviously providing context to the box scores here).

The Spurs shot selection was trash irrespective of whether or not the shots were going in.

If people are going to suggest the roster improves the AI's "defense", specific examples are going to be much more impactful to the discussion (and therefore useful to a developer) than broad generalizations.

My initial hypothesis was that roster editors usually accomplish this by nerfing the offense. Through one game, I didn't see much to sway me away from that.

Im so confused. This thread is about improving the cpu defense while you are PLAYING against them lol You're saying this roster does not work for CPU versus CPU sim. Thats fine lol but it works it you are PLAYING against the CPU. Im not sure what

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Im so confused. This thread is about improving the cpu defense while you are PLAYING against them lol You're saying this roster does not work for CPU versus CPU sim. Thats fine lol but it works it you are PLAYING against the CPU.

The defensive AI doesn't differ between user & CPU. Again, specific examples of how this is accomplished are more useful than "it's better".

People are feeling the need to "defend" the roster (or their use of it) from an attack that doesn't exist. I want to dissect the nuts and bolts in a meaningful way. What is that "thing" that improves the defense? Is it transferrable to the rest of the game?

Because again, the main obstacle is that there are 10 different game modes. You can't truly claim to have improved one (under a specific set of circumstances) if you damaged nine others in the process.

[lemarflacco]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

The defensive AI doesn't differ between user & CPU. Again, specific examples of how this is accomplished are more useful than "it's better".

People are feeling the need to "defend" the roster (or their use of it) from an attack that doesn't exist. I want to dissect the nuts and bolts in a meaningful way.

Because again, the main obstacle is that there are 10 different game modes. You can't truly claim to have improved one (under a specific set of circumstances) if you damaged nine others in the process.

But I played a game where the shot selection was not "trash". The Hawks scored 40 on me in the first quarter of my most recent game and they did not take any dumb mid rangers. Maybe the Spurs team notoriously has players that shoot long 2's instead of 3's and the roster is reflecting that?

But hey, at the the end of the day, the roster does not work FOR YOU. It works for me. The game was unplayable for me before and now I can tolerate it.

[strosdood]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

But I played a game where the shot selection was not "trash". The Hawks scored 40 on me in the first quarter of my most recent game and they did not take any dumb mid rangers. Maybe the Spurs team notoriously has players that shoot long 2's instead of 3's and the roster is reflecting that?

But hey, at the the end of the day, the roster does not work FOR YOU. It works for me. The game was unplayable for me before and now I can tolerate it.

Kinda suspicious a guy that has a persona and YouTube channel as a roster maker, comes in a thread to criticize the most popular and basically the only 2K roster with sim gamers on the site........ then acts as if he knows more about basketball and what’s happening on the floor than anyone else that questions his biased rhetoric 🤷🏻*♂️ oh and stats don’t matter as he proceeds to list post after post of stats he dislikes..........


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[Real2KInsider]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Maybe the Spurs team notoriously has players that shoot long 2's instead of 3's and the roster is reflecting that?

Not long twos. Short twos. I posted the shot charts.
Rather than speculating & playing devil's advocate, perhaps exhibit some player knowledge:

Patty Mills Shot Breakdown IRL:
Rim: 20%
Close: 11%
Mid: 9%
3pt: 60%

Very clearly, this is a player that should not be attacking the rim.

Landry Shamet & Chris Chiozza were likewise attacking the rim (how they combined for 1-18).

Shamet IRL FGA
Rim: 12%
Close: 6%
Mid: 6%
3pt: 77%

But hey, at the the end of the day, the roster does not work FOR YOU. It works for me. The game was unplayable for me before and now I can tolerate it.

Again, your focus seems to be on defending the roster from an imaginary attack, rather than discussing the actual gameplay. Feelings aren't Facts.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

Kinda suspicious a guy that has a persona and YouTube channel as a roster maker, comes in a thread to criticize the most popular and basically the only 2K roster with sim gamers on the site........ then acts as if he knows more about basketball and what’s happening on the floor than anyone else that questions his biased rhetoric 🤷🏻*♂️ oh and stats don’t matter as he proceeds to list post after post of stats he dislikes..........

To be clear:

1. I've been working on 2K rosters for 18 years. I've been watching the NBA for 27. The devs know who I am, and have gone to me for information at times. I do in fact, have more topical & applicable knowledge than the average basketball / 2k fan.

2. I could care less if people use my work or someone else's. It isn't a competition to me. My "brand" is having trustworthy information and not BSing people.

3. I have stated multiple times that this isn't a criticism of the roster. What I take issue with is people selling a false bill of goods. Claiming ANY roster to be a gameplay panacea (Definition: a solution or remedy for all difficulties or diseases) when it is demonstrably not (at least through my 5 quarters of testing).

4. The fact that this conversation is even happening MEANS that they are doing good things. If they can't handle one informed dude on the internet diving deeper, what's gonna happen when they get hired by 2K and a million people are saying the game sucks?

If they roll through here, they can use this data to better their product. As a content creator, that's the kind of feedback we're looking for.

There's a difference between "Good job!" and "Good job because _________"

[CujoMatty]

Re: Radical solutions for the completely broken next gen D...

To be clear:

1. I've been working on 2K rosters for 18 years. I've been watching the NBA for 27. The devs know who I am, and have gone to me for information at times. I do in fact, have more topical & applicable knowledge than the average basketball / 2k fan.

2. I could care less if people use my work or someone else's. It isn't a competition to me. My "brand" is having trustworthy information and not BSing people.

3. I have stated multiple times that this isn't a criticism of the roster. What I take issue with is people selling a false bill of goods. Claiming ANY roster to be a gameplay panacea (Definition: a solution or remedy for all difficulties or diseases) when it is demonstrably not (at least through my 5 quarters of testing).

4. The fact that this conversation is even happening MEANS that they are doing good things. If they can't handle one informed dude on the internet diving deeper, what's gonna happen when they get hired by 2K and a million people are saying the game sucks?

If they roll through here, they can use this data to better their product. As a content creator, that's the kind of feedback we're looking for.

There's a difference between "Good job!" and "Good job because _________"

I was trying real hard not to argue with you again......lol

Who cares dude? If the game plays better with certain rosters than great for them. It did for me so I'll suggest to others. If someone else tries and it doesnt for them that's fine too. It doesnt for you, great. Why would anyone have to defend to you why it plays better to them. I dont care why it's better for me it just is.

I cant at all figure out your objective? It comes off like you need to defend the developers no matter what but I cant understand why they need to be defended. No ones attacking anyone. The game has issues and people are working hard to try and improve the experience. That's not anyone attacking the devs that's just people trying to make a situation better.