New NBA 2K22 Details Have Been Revealed - Shot Aiming is Gone, Improved Defensive Mechanic, Dribbling Improvements & Much More

[mb625]

Re: Info from Beluba

I don't have a personal investment either way, and everything you say about the why may be true, but it's ultimately irrelevant, a removal after year one means that it failed miserably, so much so that they decided that they weren't going to even leave in as an option. That sucks for people who liked it but that was their design decision.



Like a Vison Cone or Target Passing for Madden, some mechanics just bomb, and they get axed. I would also imaging that they have metrics that show that Real FG% is fairly popular for offline players, so it makes sense that it would stay.

I don't think "failure" is the right term. It was a learning curve, most of the community wanted easy and just didn't try it. It's not an indictment on the mechanic itself (which was *really* intuitive, by the way), but an indictment on the constant community overreaction and 2k's overwillingness to listen to majority rule rather than actually taking into account the people who actually utilized the mechanic.

Also, perhaps real player FG wasn't the best example. Pass lead is still an option. I don't know many who know what they're doing that don't turn that off. There are tons of other spots where I know the majority don't use the option but are just not as vocal about it.

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[scottyp180]

Re: Info from Beluba

I'm an offline player as well. While I did enjoy my time with 2k21 NG, if I were to go back I would pass on it. While I could feel the differences, it still felt like the same 2k.

It does suck that consoles are still scarce. But, I don't want the same experience for both generations. It just feels like the current gen is being held back by last gen. I just don't want the current gen differences to be visuals and hardware benefits.

Did you double dip and buy current and next gen versions? I skipped current gen and waited for nextgen and I was glad I did so. Felt like a bigger difference from 2k20 than the current gen version based on the demo. Agree it still felt like 2k but there were subtle differences that made it more than the same game with better graphics.

[jfsolo]

Re: Info from Beluba

I don't think "failure" is the right term. It was a learning curve, most of the community wanted easy and just didn't try it. It's not an indictment on the mechanic itself (which was *really* intuitive, by the way), but an indictment on the constant community overreaction and 2k's overwillingness to listen to majority rule rather than actually taking into account the people who actually utilized the mechanic.

Also, perhaps real player FG wasn't the best example. Pass lead is still an option. I don't know many who know what they're doing that don't turn that off. There are tons of other spots where I know the majority don't use the option but are just not as vocal about it.

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I realize that the word failure seems like an indictment of the mechanic, but it's not, objectively there is noting wrong with it, but if for whatever reason most people hate a new mechanic that is the number one foundation aspect of the game, shooting, it's going to be given a different level of scrutiny. I'm sure that you're right that the non-stop, loud disdain for it did play a sizable part in its complete removal.

[illwill10]

Re: Info from Beluba

Did you double dip and buy current and next gen versions? I skipped current gen and waited for nextgen and I was glad I did so. Felt like a bigger difference from 2k20 than the current gen version based on the demo. Agree it still felt like 2k but there were subtle differences that made it more than the same game with better graphics.

I actually skipped 2k20 and 2k21 current gen. What I meant was some of the core modes didn't feel much improved. Like MyCareer offline was as broken and shallow as it has been for a few years. MYNBA was deep but issues that never got fixed

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Info from Beluba

Gotta strongly, STRONGLY disagree here. Aiming was a fantastic option for those who wanted to use it. If you didn't want to use it, that's cool, you didn't have to, but the flat out REMOVAL of the feature is not a win at all. I'm pretty deeply disappointed, because aiming was the first time where I felt like I was thinking about my shot the way I do on the real life floor. Retaining it as an option wasn't effecting anyone (with the exception of those running into zens, who will be wholly uneffected as they'll find ways to tune those for shot timing rather easily) except those who enjoyed it. Gotta say I feel a bit alienated by that decision.

The irony in your comment is that they removed some functionality of the right stick to get the shot aiming in.

[mb625]

Re: Info from Beluba

The irony in your comment is that they removed some functionality of the right stick to get the shot aiming in.

I didn't miss much, if anything, from whatever right stick dribbling was the year before. I can't even tell you what was missing. I legitimately don't know. I'd gladly trade some dribbling mechanics to have the option back.

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[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Info from Beluba

Just curious, sincerely - but do you guys actually buy the new consoles just for one game?

Be smart and stop making it seem like we bought the consoles ONLY to play one game. NBA 2K was the game that motivated me to get my console sooner than later, because remember..."it was the game that was built from the ground up for the next-gen experience.". Did I get fleeced by the marketing? Yeah, I did. Do I regret my purchase of a next-gen console so early? Hell no!

[illwill10]

Re: Info from Beluba

The comments about the animations is almost something that I predicted when somebody was arguing for NBA 2K to be a "live service" in the other closed thread.

Animations are going behind a paywall...

Which overall does suck. I don't like the direction with the pay wall and grind wall stuff. Bad enough that you start off at 60 OVR with min athleticism and barely any skill to make an immediate impact. That's the one thing I liked about NBA Live's The One mode. At least there, you start over 70 OVR with your physical ratings essentially maxed to start off from.

I honestly don't blame them for capitalizing on what obviously benefitted them over these years. I can't even imagine how much/many people spend on a player(s) every year. I'm not trying to spend extra money just so my player is competent to start off. I don't try to buy the game until it goes on sale. I'm wondering if we see a Black Friday sale for the next gen versions this year. Normal years, the game goes down to almost 50% off. But with 2 versions, not sure if we will sale a drop in game cost

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Info from Beluba

So, Mike just deleted ALL his recent tweets about new features on the game.

What type of marketing campaign is this company doing lmao?

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Info from Beluba

I didn't miss much, if anything, from whatever right stick dribbling was the year before. I can't even tell you what was missing. I legitimately don't know. I'd gladly trade some dribbling mechanics to have the option back.

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Here's the thing though, and I know that I was one of the loudest opponents against the shot stick aiming since Day One. I tried the shot aiming, and I didn't like it. Fine. They gave me the option to turn it off, so I turned it off.

I'm going to be blunt. The programming of the shot aiming screwed up the shot stick. Turning it off didn't mean that I had the SAME controls like I did in previous NBA 2Ks. Turning it off just really remove the visual cue, but the programming was still in the right stick. In previous 2Ks, I could push the stick in any direction to get any shot I wanted, AND it was responsive. Since you adapted to the shot aiming, you wouldn't know what it feels like "to turn the option off" and how the existence of the shot made the RS feels so much different.

Even if you turned off THE shot meter off along with the aiming, the overall responsiveness of the RS sucked, and then you were stuck with pushing down to shoot. The existence of shot aiming wasn't a bad idea in itself, but it affected the use of the right stick overall. However, I personally think it's stupid to have a mini game to shoot anyways. I create the best shot opportunity possible, so let me shoot, and I let me live with the outcome.

[cthurt]

Re: Info from Beluba

So, Mike just deleted ALL his recent tweets about new features on the game.

What type of marketing campaign is this company doing lmao?

The marketing campaign of "these guys will buy no matter what we tell them anyway" lol but in all seriousness the little bit he said kind of makes this years 2k22 promotion make sense, they basically have to focus on both current and next gen titles evenly due to the next gen consoles being so scarce. I still feel ng will be smoother and not feel the same as current but I am also glad they didn't try to reinvent the whole game for the new console.

But I'm about to re-download 2k20 to see how the dribbling was because I forgot at this point.

[mb625]

Re: Info from Beluba

Here's the thing though, and I know that I was one of the loudest opponents against the shot stick aiming since Day One. I tried the shot aiming, and I didn't like it. Fine. They gave me the option to turn it off, so I turned it off.

I'm going to be blunt. The programming of the shot aiming screwed up the shot stick. Turning it off didn't mean that I had the SAME controls like I did in previous NBA 2Ks. Turning it off just really remove the visual cue, but the programming was still in the right stick. In previous 2Ks, I could push the stick in any direction to get any shot I wanted, AND it was responsive. Since you adapted to the shot aiming, you wouldn't know what it feels like "to turn the option off" and how the existence of the shot made the RS feels so much different.

Even if you turned off THE shot meter off along with the aiming, the overall responsiveness of the RS sucked, and then you were stuck with pushing down to shoot. The existence of shot aiming wasn't a bad idea in itself, but it affected the use of the right stick overall. However, I personally think it's stupid to have a mini game to shoot anyways. I create the best shot opportunity possible, so let me shoot, and I let me live with the outcome.

First, that's all fixable. All they'd have to do is tweak how the stick worked. It was literally the first year of it.

Second, I used timing basically exclusively on current gen, so yes, I am aware what playing without it was like. I'm not really a big dribbler, so I didn't notice much if any lack of response time, because I tend to keep my dribbling fairly simple in the first place

Third, I really felt like that "mini-game"* as you want to put it played right into the fact that I was trying to create the best shot opportunities possible, because the higher quality shots would usually result in a closer aim target. That, plus I felt like I was rewarded for open shots more than I ever was with shot timing. If I missed, it was always very clear why, something I never felt with timing.

I really do think that this goes to the point that everyone who wanted it gone just didn't like using it in the first place and wrote it off as a response. Those who liked it were very clear about liking it. I haven't heard the argument about dribbling until just now, which tells me it's not a common critique of the system (one which could easily have been worked out if attention had actually been brought to it). In light of all of that, removing the option instead of improving upon it just plain does not make sense in any way.

*Edit: I should probably address this too because timing felt more "mini game" esque to me than aiming ever did. Think about how you were taught to shoot a basketball. I was taught BEEF, balance, eyes, elbow, follow through. Shooting a basketball is a complex, yet simple motion, and aiming did a great job of replicating it. The balance emulated by finding the center with the stick, the eyes focused on your target, not the player (a hair flawed as it was a separate meter and not the basket, but the point still stands) and the follow through emulated by the LT press to finish off the motion (not to mention that if the stick was slightly off, that follow through could still lead to a made bucket). I felt more like I was thinking about a basketball skill than I ever did staring down my player looking for an "upper cue."
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[jfsolo]

Re: Info from Beluba

Mike "having" to delete those Tweets tells you everything that you need to know about how marketing controls the information flow. A few tidbits from the gameplay lead weren't even allowed to stay out there early, oof.

[loso_34]

Re: Info from Beluba

First, that's all fixable. All they'd have to do is tweak how the stick worked. It was literally the first year of it.

Second, I used timing basically exclusively on current gen, so yes, I am aware what playing without it was like. I'm not really a big dribbler, so I didn't notice much if any lack of response time, because I tend to keep my dribbling fairly simple in the first place

Third, I really felt like that "mini-game"* as you want to put it played right into the fact that I was trying to create the best shot opportunities possible, because the higher quality shots would usually result in a closer aim target. That, plus I felt like I was rewarded for open shots more than I ever was with shot timing. If I missed, it was always very clear why, something I never felt with timing.

I really do think that this goes to the point that everyone who wanted it gone just didn't like using it in the first place and wrote it off as a response. Those who liked it were very clear about liking it. I haven't heard the argument about dribbling until just now, which tells me it's not a common critique of the system (one which could easily have been worked out if attention had actually been brought to it). In light of all of that, removing the option instead of improving upon it just plain does not make sense in any way.

*Edit: I should probably address this too because timing felt more "mini game" esque to me than aiming ever did. Think about how you were taught to shoot a basketball. I was taught BEEF, balance, eyes, elbow, follow through. Shooting a basketball is a complex, yet simple motion, and aiming did a great job of replicating it. The balance emulated by finding the center with the stick, the eyes focused on your target, not the player (a hair flawed as it was a separate meter and not the basket, but the point still stands) and the follow through emulated by the LT press to finish off the motion (not to mention that if the stick was slightly off, that follow through could still lead to a made bucket). I felt more like I was thinking about a basketball skill than I ever did staring down my player looking for an "upper cue."
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I’ve never heard the dribbling critique anywhere. The main reason the feature was criticized were all the zens online+ content creators spreading the word.

Like I’ve said before even after 2k patched aiming scripts zens we’re still around as models just made timing scripts instead.

We can only hope precision shooting is something similar.

[Masai]

Re: Info from Beluba

Dude had to basically leak information for a game he worked on because the lack of communication was so bad