Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

[Bahnzo]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

a nuclear detonation of badges

This would make me so happy. I've not been shy of saying badges are the ruin of this game, especially in MyTeam.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

How are we defining "higher level competition"? What I'm seeing is the competition of who can cheese the hardest. I'm starting to see the term "tryhards" and "sweats" come up more and more in "competitive" conversations. Now, I stopped playing NBA 2K22 (perhaps stop playing the franchise) due to the MyTeam mode, which I will admit...basketball strategy does get harder and harder as the individual cards get better and everyone and their momma can hit 3's. I'm a competitive person, but I'm done going online and playing against the same braindead tactic game after game after game. Back in the day, my major complaint was people always using the "overpowered" teams of that season...my, how things have changed.

Cheese has been around for a very long time. I'm really not worry about that per se. However and with the rise of social media (particularly YouTube), it seems like MOST gamers know how to do it if you're not trying to be a "sim" player. I was reflecting on this the other day...social media allow these bums to stack tips on top of tips on top of tips when it comes to exploiting the game. The spin dunk in NBA 2K11 was a cheese move, but it wasn't widely known. Out of the 500+ games I played in PNO that year, I probably came across 2-3 users who knew how to use it to perfection.

Honestly, I don't know how NBA 2K developers can make the game competitive where people are "forced" to use real basketball strategy without doing a nuclear detonation of badges and unrealistic shooting percentages.

I play MyTeam, but mostly offline.

but you’re not going to find a lot of real life basketball strategy in a mode where Shaq has a 90+ 3 point rating….not to mention playing sliders that are even more lenient than PNO.

ILL is speaking on Rec/Pro Am, which has actually become pretty competitive after the patches. 3 is still king of course, but 5 out is nowhere near the monster it used to be….but then again you have 5 individuals who know their assignments (unless your playing with randoms)

Doubt badges are ever going anywhere, but hopefully they dial down some of the ones that negate or lower contests.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

I play MyTeam, but mostly offline.

but you’re not going to find a lot of real life basketball strategy in a mode where Shaq has a 90+ 3 point rating….not to mention playing sliders that are even more lenient than PNO.

ILL is speaking on Rec/Pro Am, which has actually become pretty competitive after the patches. 3 is still king of course, but 5 out is nowhere near the monster it used to be….but then again you have 5 individuals who know their assignments (unless your playing with randoms)

Doubt badges are ever going anywhere, but hopefully they dial down some of the ones that negate or lower contests.

Yea, I mean... AIs are gonna let you down. So are people, but AIs are going to let you down with consistency (always in the same way.) If there was a better way to choose position for players, I mean, if you could basically say to the AI stand here then if the ball goes to this area, move to here, etc, you could really stop just about anything IMO. In the absence of that, it's tough.



As for 5v5, the reason I think it's more competitive is because there are more tools, more play styles that can be effective (true big is actually super effective) and there are a lot of counter plays to those tools. It's more diverse even though most people play the same way, it can lead to as many losses as it can to wins. You have to be able to adapt to what team you get in say, random rec, and you have a lot more chance. The only time you get really screwed, unless everyone on your team is just bad, is when you are filled with a team of people who cannot shoot consistently, two real inside bigs is also somewhat of a handicap, but you can make it work. I've actually seen the game load up with something like C, C, PF, too, but I think they fixed that. That was bonkers.



It's cheesy in the way that a video game is, but the intellect is there. Blitz people and make them pass it then steal the pass, throw different looks, like I said, the amount of options in 5 v 5 player vs player is very high. Someone can play a game of all pick and roll 5 out and oops, but it can be beaten by outsmarting.



My problem with cheese is that it's brainless. That what defines cheese to me. You can run the same thing over and over and if you mastered it, you will succeed. There are a lot of 'arcade' things that happen in 5s, but there are plenty of options to force people into doing different things. The buffed pass steals (even after they made it so people aren't just sucking the ball into their hands) really help this. You can play the whole court as angles. There are definitely problems I have with the game, even though they tend to benefit me more (like crazy chase down blocks.)


I'm still raging at why 2k lets people jump all over you and make you lose the ball inside, though. That's one thing I will never understand. Outside of that, it's really cool. My friend is a great PG who hits the open J and will pull a J or drive when necessary, been running with him for years. I am a big who can green inside, play the mid post and pass, and on defense, I can cover a ton of space. I am usually the first one back because I start walking backwards as soon as I see the shot is up (and probably in.) We somehow came across another guy who is kind of a meta dribble shooter but has bball IQ and knows how to make tough passes + plays defense on the level we do. The three of us on a team, unless other people are hard selling, is really hard to beat. My friend (bless him :P) works too hard and comes home and plays 2k til he drops out, usually during the game, and we've won 4v5s with him running in the corner, haha. Vs not bad teams, either.



A lot of it is arcadey, though, the steals, the blocks, but when balanced against the way 3s are and dunks, oops, it kind of works out. Like I said, other than people who come in and just play ineffective basketball, get emo and refuse to come down and play D, stuff like that... this is one of the better 2ks I've played, and I'm not even on next gen!



Really feel that the amount of viable builds is way larger than it has been in years, too. It's no longer like "damn we gonna lose" when you look at people's builds beforehand. Some tryhards still dashboard, but I mean... I'm happy to know I have about a 50/50 chance of winning the game when I solo Rec. I feel like I can make the difference. It's like I felt in L*ve 19. Definitely moving in the right direction. Other people are other people, but you got a good amount of time to figure things out, how people wanna play, where they want the ball, what they defend well, what they don't... I'm still calling time outs when people help off the corner, tho. Every time ahaha. I dunno if people get it or not. If they don't, I'm inbounding the ball to them, even if they are all the way across the court. It's like WAKE UP BUDDY.



-Smak

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

I play MyTeam, but mostly offline.

but you’re not going to find a lot of real life basketball strategy in a mode where Shaq has a 90+ 3 point rating….not to mention playing sliders that are even more lenient than PNO.

ILL is speaking on Rec/Pro Am, which has actually become pretty competitive after the patches. 3 is still king of course, but 5 out is nowhere near the monster it used to be….but then again you have 5 individuals who know their assignments (unless your playing with randoms)

Doubt badges are ever going anywhere, but hopefully they dial down some of the ones that negate or lower contests.

Then I might have to re-dive into REC again to see what's changed. The last time I played it, the opposite team immediately went into a 5-out offense. Being the center, I was getting frustrated watching my perimeter teammates getting toasted, but I couldn't really do anything, because my matchup had a decent 3PT shot.

It was probably that day where I was like "You know? I'm tired of playing against this garbage *** tactic no matter what mode I play.". Like...I'm beyond caring about whether or not I win the game. Seeing the 5-out offense just disgusts me to my soul.

[AIRJ23]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Then I might have to re-dive into REC again to see what's changed. The last time I played it, the opposite team immediately went into a 5-out offense. Being the center, I was getting frustrated watching my perimeter teammates getting toasted, but I couldn't really do anything, because my matchup had a decent 3PT shot.

It was probably that day where I was like "You know? I'm tired of playing against this garbage *** tactic no matter what mode I play.". Like...I'm beyond caring about whether or not I win the game. Seeing the 5-out offense just disgusts me to my soul.

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks a 5 out offense is antithesis to the nature of basketball.

I wish they’d give us just one season without the 3 point shot. Bring some beauty, physicality and dynamism back to the game. Guarantee it would be the most popular nba season of the last couple decades. If every basket counts the same (as it once did) you’d see “analytics” favoring a wide range of offensive tactics to get buckets. But with one shot counting as 50% more than the others, analystics forces the homogeny of one shot. So now you have 7 footers standing at the perimeter rendering their height useless.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks a 5 out offense is antithesis to the nature of basketball.

I wish they’d give us just one season without the 3 point shot. Bring some beauty, physicality and dynamism back to the game. Guarantee it would be the most popular nba season of the last couple decades. If every basket counts the same (as it once did) you’d see “analytics” favoring a wide range of offensive tactics to get buckets. But with one shot counting as 50% more than the others, analystics forces the homogeny of one shot. So now you have 7 footers standing at the perimeter rendering their height useless.

Unfortunately it's a video game and when it comes to online play where people take pride in their stats (too much pride IMHO), probably 90% or better of the people you match up against will play to whatever the meta is. Years ago it was bigs standing under the hoop doing unblockable standing dunks, now its guys with 80 badges and 3 point spam.

[MakaveliLPC]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

This would make me so happy. I've not been shy of saying badges are the ruin of this game, especially in MyTeam.

Badges imo should JUST be for stuff that can't be accomplished with ratings by themselves.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks a 5 out offense is antithesis to the nature of basketball.

I wish they’d give us just one season without the 3 point shot. Bring some beauty, physicality and dynamism back to the game. Guarantee it would be the most popular nba season of the last couple decades. If every basket counts the same (as it once did) you’d see “analytics” favoring a wide range of offensive tactics to get buckets. But with one shot counting as 50% more than the others, analystics forces the homogeny of one shot. So now you have 7 footers standing at the perimeter rendering their height useless.

I had to google the word "antithesis", lol.

For the record, I don't mind it being part of the offense, because by all definition, it is a type of offense. When people use it as their only offense due it being a "videogame" strategy, then try describe/explain it as "basketball/IRL" strategy is when I lose it every time. If done "perfectly", the meta becomes so unbeatable, that the margin of mistake is very small (damn near non-existent in some modes), hence the term "sweat" or "sweats". Truth be told, the 5-out offense is REALLY not that great of an offense to use, but when anyone on the floor can hit 90+% of their 3's, it becomes the deadliest offense known to basketball.

For me (and MrWrestling3 touched on this in his previous post), records and ranking is not that deep for me where I feel like I have to sacrifice my integrity for good and FAIR competition to have meaningless numbers attached to my gamertag.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Then I might have to re-dive into REC again to see what's changed. The last time I played it, the opposite team immediately went into a 5-out offense. Being the center, I was getting frustrated watching my perimeter teammates getting toasted, but I couldn't really do anything, because my matchup had a decent 3PT shot.

It was probably that day where I was like "You know? I'm tired of playing against this garbage *** tactic no matter what mode I play.". Like...I'm beyond caring about whether or not I win the game. Seeing the 5-out offense just disgusts me to my soul.

It does get repetitive. I'm getting a lot more wins now, even solo, tho. Getting mad steals, contests, etc. Still at like 50% win percentage tho cuz lol... rec. But the sad part is that of those games maybe 5% are actually two balanced teams skill wise. Usually it's a slaughter. Generally, I get slaughtered w/ bums vs a team of 5 skilled people (prol a full 5), if the other team has good players and we have a couple decent players, we probably lose by 10-15. Then, of course, it goes the other way. When you get into a good game where you actually come down the stretch and win (I have mad tapes and I always ffwd thru them before I upload them, and it's funny to watch our score slowly creep up on their score and over take them.)


If you're a big in the paint, it's tough, but you can always roam around. That's how I get a lot of my steals. My man might go 8-8 on lay ups, but we win because I'm stopping 3s and stealing. If they are putting you in pick and roll, like I said, guard the corner sagging in so that you can be there for reb/ contest corner/roll, and let your guards harass the ball handler. I dunno what the speed and steal of your big is, but at 50 speed 60 steal 7'3 max wingspan, I can cut off a lot of lanes. It's impossible to stop people from just raining 3s on you when nobody else is playing defense, but if you stick around a bit, you will find it's not the norm. You only really need 2 other people who have some idea of how to defend and the rest of the people can be running around like headless chickens and your D should be OK if you spread out and cut off passing lanes properly.


But yea, the repetition does get to me. You get these "Why" life moments when you are playing, even if you are winning. Still it's a good year for true bigs. I green grill more bigs than shooters green grill short arms haha.


-Smak

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

It does get repetitive. I'm getting a lot more wins now, even solo, tho. Getting mad steals, contests, etc. Still at like 50% win percentage tho cuz lol... rec. But the sad part is that of those games maybe 5% are actually two balanced teams skill wise. Usually it's a slaughter. Generally, I get slaughtered w/ bums vs a team of 5 skilled people (prol a full 5), if the other team has good players and we have a couple decent players, we probably lose by 10-15. Then, of course, it goes the other way. When you get into a good game where you actually come down the stretch and win (I have mad tapes and I always ffwd thru them before I upload them, and it's funny to watch our score slowly creep up on their score and over take them.)


If you're a big in the paint, it's tough, but you can always roam around. That's how I get a lot of my steals. My man might go 8-8 on lay ups, but we win because I'm stopping 3s and stealing. If they are putting you in pick and roll, like I said, guard the corner sagging in so that you can be there for reb/ contest corner/roll, and let your guards harass the ball handler. I dunno what the speed and steal of your big is, but at 50 speed 60 steal 7'3 max wingspan, I can cut off a lot of lanes. It's impossible to stop people from just raining 3s on you when nobody else is playing defense, but if you stick around a bit, you will find it's not the norm. You only really need 2 other people who have some idea of how to defend and the rest of the people can be running around like headless chickens and your D should be OK if you spread out and cut off passing lanes properly.


But yea, the repetition does get to me. You get these "Why" life moments when you are playing, even if you are winning. Still it's a good year for true bigs. I green grill more bigs than shooters green grill short arms haha.


-Smak

Shucks...I already deleted my big, but I somehow lucked up and created a 2-way, 3-Level SF. I wanted to create a Paul George Lite player, and I got him . We'll see what happens if/when I actually decide to go online.

[tinpanalley]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Just skimmed through all this. Very interesting. Reminds me of every half decent player in Triple Play 2000 being able to slam monster homeruns because at the time that's what people wanted to see.
So what's the answer in NBA2K, which game (preferably on PC) gets the mechanics and stat accuracy of shooting right and does basketball more realistically?

[Real2KInsider]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

If every basket counts the same (as it once did) you’d see “analytics” favoring a wide range of offensive tactics to get buckets.

The 40s/50s/60s/70s were not tactical in the slightest. You either had a HOF big you could spam (Mikan, Pettit, Wilt, Kareem) or you didn't.

So now you have 7 footers standing at the perimeter rendering their height useless.

KD's height is useless on the perimeter? (Don't worry, this is rhetorical)

In the 80s and 90s teams had their stiff centers stand on the perimeter to take advantage of the illegal defense rules. The rules used to force spacing that wasn't earned. This manufactured spacing is how players like Jordan etc had room to operate.

The Illegal Defense rule was removed in 2002, which created the deadball era dominated by the Pistons/Spurs (who not coincidentally, had floor-stretching bigs like Rasheed Wallace & Robert Horry play absolutely vital roles). Most teams weren't ready for this seismic a shift.

The 5-out spacing you see today is in response to the abolishment of illegal defense. The spacing hasn't changed. The quality of shooters has.

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[howardphillips214]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

I couldn't buy a 3 on the park playing on Switch when I first got the game. I think the lag was preventing me from timing my shots and I was shooting 19 percent on three's. I watched a video about Real FG% and brought my average to over 40 percent now. Easily if I hadn't had the first month bringing my average down I'd be over 50 or 60 percent and none of my characters have over an 80 three.

While it definitely saved my online experience, a sharp shooter with 90 three and speed boosting and HOF badges it makes them completely unguardable. If a sharp has no desire to green he can throw anything up with no conscience at all.

I've gone against the same player before they found out about this and they were garbage. They bricked everything. That SAME PLAYER started running in circles and shooting leaning threes and made most of them. Now every time I see this guy he's got a couple rebounders to help him throw garbage at the rim.

There has to be a medium. If shot timing is going to be a thing then the 25 badges that make it easier to green need to be removed. Blinders and Deadeye are literally the same badge for different defensive positions. If someone throws a pass across court and my man snaps to the three point line before I can react that's a bucket. If he side to sides me over a screen then if I put a hand on the side of him it doesn't even register.

Idk man... I enjoy being able to space the floor and play my game. If I scare them enough to close out it gives me driving lanes. So I enjoy being able to make a couple threes a game. But the way these kids use it just astounds me.

I have NEVER seen an NBA player or even someone at the gym run from wing to wing over a screen for the duration of the shot clock and drain a contested three. Tell me if I'm wrong. Full on SPRINTING from one side of the court to the other. No dribble moves. Just turbo and left stick for a green three.

If we WERE playing a fighting game, that's like hitting a 25 hit combo with one button. All game. Every game. And then WINNING like 80 percebt of the time.

[howardphillips214]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Literally just lost a park game to a leaning fadeaway 3 at the top of the arc.

I don't know how anyone can defend this game.

[zten11]

Re: Last I Checked, The League is Shooting 37% on Wide Open 3s

Haha psssst, let's go in the wayback machine to where I talked about this in 2016 multiple times:

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...undrum-part-1/

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...undrum-part-2/

But also the conundrum at the time that "real" Steph would destroy "video game" Steph because of the amount of silly shots he can make that you can't make in 2K.

Anyway, yeah, it's not a new issue, but from a video game theory perspective, it's not as simple to solve beyond removing green releases as step one of a larger rewrite you'd have to do of jump shooting overall.

In 2K, that turns into getting to all the spots you want to get to, which isn't a bad alternative.