Bringing the face up game back to 2K

[howardphillips214]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Area Effect in general. The thing is that even tho it's not a contest... (all of this is my opinion cuz I mean I play but I can't reliably say HOW I play altogether), if you just hold aggressive defense and run into people, you get pretty good results. In fact, I would like to see a lot more fouls on said plays because you can really lead people around once a contact animation starts. They should have rolls for each extra phase of the contact, basing on situation, and determine foul calls, allow for flopping, too.



That's one thing. Cuz I mean I've seen people get faced many times even on 3s if they are just not even touching their controller. It's just an auto contest.



I like open shots being easy, but if they made pull up in your face shots even somewhat make-able like 25% of the time, it would be nice. There is a ton of bumping that you can do with a guy without great defensive badges ( and people w/ great defensive badges it doesn't even matter what you do in some situations, but they affect others less) and the bumping is necessary to keep it realistic, but there needs to be like a foul or a chance to double clutch, something, on these 'hard bump' inside animations. As for hard contest midrange animations, 2k doesn't handle the vertical (as in sphere of the game) part so well, probably why blocks are so stupid. But the idea of actually rising up over someone is just not in 2k's playbook, which is weird cuz they have shed animations inside, blowby, long cross, ankle breakers, but not any real I pressed the button before you pressed jump "rise up" animation that turns into a make-able shot. Could be a great addition.


-Smak

This idea of "pull up" jumper is in the game and very much alive it's just that the distance between you and your defender has to be in a certain range of situations. The perfect storm if you will. Granted the shot timing is good, if you're anywhere from 1-2 feet away from your defender you can raise up facing the basket and lean into a shot with hot zones, shooting badges, and ratings anywhere from 15-17 feet all day. Stationary from the post or triple threat position? Absolutely not. Now a baseline leaning jumpshot with badges, separation is money from 8-20 feet all day. Same with standing shots in catch and shoot situations. Granted, still need good separation. Leaning 2s rely on circus 3s just inside the line you'll brick those without it. Standing 2s just inside the line will use catch and shoot and hot Zone. They're treated like a 3 damn near.

But 15-20 feet there's no post badge that can give you a face up, splash in your eye triple threat shot in the game. That specific scenario has no badge for it. Even pump fake maestro would be a nice badge in that situation cuz if you can get your man to leave his feet in that situation there's a lot of foul situations that happen in the real NBA. The RIP THROUGH shot is not in this game. Oh you reached so imma yank this? Nah... Lol

But like I said, I wish the... Oh you wanna give me a foot and I'm Steph I'm just gonna run to the line and raise up and dot a 3 in your eyeball cuz I'm Steph muh ****in Curry? Nope. Especially not behind the line, not inside 23 -20 feet. You can KINDA do it 17 feet and under but it's better if you drift away from the hoop instead of just raising straight up like Kobe, Rip, or hell even old Russ used to do in transition.

But I DO love the running midrange game. I've destroyed plenty of kids who only believe in 3.

What's great is when I can match them from 3 if I'm open and still terrorize them from 2 because 2 has more court space. I have more spots from there.

But HOF badges and 80 ratings moving shots are deadly this year. I'm grateful.

Especially on my big. Make a couple catch and shoot 3s and my lack of ball handling is negated by their bite on the pump fake. If I get a 7'3 jumping at the 3 point line there is no one helping at the rim or from 2.

Midrange should be a much bigger threat tho even still.

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Mid-range is toned down? Woooow....I'm on still hiatus until further notice but its really disappointing that AoE defense is crippling offense like that. The jab was a serious weapon for me in 2K20 & 21.

Embiid has a very good mid-range game and one of my favorite ways to manipulate the other user on defense is to use jabs, dropsteps middle, what I like to call a post-sizeups (2nd video :27 second mark) and turn-arounds. It's child's play to get guys out of position or jumping for blocks (defensive users usually react to any movement) but AoE defense/no downside for bad defensive position lets them back in the play unrealistically.

I usually start the game off with hooks just so I can get guys leaning the wrong way and can get open turnarounds the rest of the game.

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Its why i've campaigned for an active contest system using the right stick that allows a good contest and even physical defense w/o fouling when we point the stick towards the shooter when we anticipate he's shooting. That way a defender is rewarded for good timing BUT it also creates a system where guys are also out of position/flat footed giving the offensive player the advantage when they guess wrong.

Hands Up defense is the wrong answer when i'm fading away.

The game can't be rewarding guys with their hands down who don't contest. How do you guys feel about L2 triggering the basic one-hand up auto-contest if someone is close (like within 3 ft?) I know the community was split on features like that in the past....

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

You know me I've been complaining about this for years. The pretext of having to do a move first sucks. But also you can't do this with Embiid because they dropped his mid ranging after a month down into the low 80's. Then magically when he was MVP he got a little bump. Even Karl Malone mid ranges in the mid range.

The face up game is slow. CPU like you said because can read you like a book. Playing humans can be fun at times. But again it's so slow. These are moves you can score on. But again it's so slow. Only works vs a human. https://twitter.com/jeebs9/status/14...zUUzCZfPw&s=19 the only reason the above works is because it's a height mismatch. Besides that vs anyone else that's a miss.

100% agree with you

https://twitter.com/Klay_Says/status/1325851554553933826?t=P9lasTk6I05r-DiSIPoedA&s=19

We can't do the above.

Always respected your post-game Jeebs. Instead of fading like you did with KP, I usually just squeeze the right trigger again and recycle it again to create space--human defenders always overreact to movement. But you can't really blame them because the contest system needs more depth/options and a focus on timing...MOST IMPORTANT it should be intuitive (R-Stick)

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Mid-range is toned down? Woooow....I'm on still hiatus until further notice but its really disappointing that AoE defense is crippling offense like that. The jab was a serious weapon for me in 2K20 & 21.

Embiid has a very good mid-range game and one of my favorite ways to manipulate the other user on defense is to use jabs, dropsteps middle, what I like to call a post-sizeups (2nd video :27 second mark) and turn-arounds. It's child's play to get guys out of position or jumping for blocks but (defensive users usually react to any movement) AoE defense/no downside for bad defensive position lets them back in the play unrealistically.

I usually start the game of with hooks just so I can get guys leaning the wrong way and can get open turnarounds the rest of the game.

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Its why i've campaigned for an active contest system using the right stick that allows a good contest and even physical defense w/o fouling when we point the stick towards the shooter when we anticipate he's shooting. That way a defender is rewarded for good timing BUT it also creates a system where guys are also out of position/flat footed giving the offensive player the advantage when they guess wrong.

Hands Up defense is the wrong answer when i'm fading away.

The game can't be rewarding guys with their hands down who don't contest. How do you guys feel about L2 triggering the basic one-hand up auto-contest if someone is close (like within 3 ft?) I know the community was split on features like that in the past....

Speaking from a H2H perspective here-

Middy isn’t gone. In fact shot creation got a shot in the arm. This year was fun.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRzaN7FDZA

but I do think the contest system needs to be looked at, or at least directly tuned per mode. It makes a real difference.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Speaking from a H2H perspective here-

Middy isn’t gone. In fact shot creation got a shot in the arm. This year was fun.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRzaN7FDZA

but I do think the contest system needs to be looked at, or at least directly tuned per mode. It makes a real difference.

A difference for who??? You look like you're killing it, lol.

[VictorMG]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

I honestly can't believe there's no badge for hitting contested jumpers, considering how many superstars live off of them now and in the past. The closest thing we have is Deadeye, but that only affects late closeouts. That faceup, triple-threat, "I'll shoot over you without dribbling because my mid-range jumper is just that good" shot is basically useless in this game, and as someone who has Dirk and Durant in a fantasy league, that makes me sad.

Or even the Kobe/DeRozan/Jordan contested mid range off the dribble. Those aren't as effective as they should be with those players IMO.

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Speaking from a H2H perspective here-

Middy isn’t gone. In fact shot creation got a shot in the arm. This year was fun.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRzaN7FDZA

but I do think the contest system needs to be looked at, or at least directly tuned per mode. It makes a real difference.

One-legged fades 24th? So you just showing off now huh? [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

That Pierce feint movement on Lebron (2 minute mark) was just UGLY [emoji30] its why i'll never support the AoE defense bonus when guys are out of position (even though I understand what the intent was) Pierce faking him out his shorts is exactly what SHOULD happen. In the same vein, When I lose a guy in the post or he hits block with bad timing he should be out of the play AT A MINIMUM.

When their timing is really bad? AND ONE. [emoji6]

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

I honestly can't believe there's no badge for hitting contested jumpers, considering how many superstars live off of them now and in the past. The closest thing we have is Deadeye, but that only affects late closeouts. That faceup, triple-threat, "I'll shoot over you without dribbling because my mid-range jumper is just that good" shot is basically useless in this game, and as someone who has Dirk and Durant in a fantasy league, that makes me sad.

Or even the Kobe/DeRozan/Jordan contested mid range off the dribble. Those aren't as effective as they should be with those players IMO.

Wait...is this in PNO or vs the CPU? Thats always been an aspect of the H2H game if I can get a guy to back up even an inch with Embiid or get caught leaning...please clarify.

[VictorMG]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Wait...is this in PNO or vs the CPU? Thats always been an aspect of the H2H game if I can get a guy to back up even an inch with Embiid or get caught leaning...please clarify.

H2H in a fantasy draft MyLeague. I want to be able to make shots over players without even having to get them to back up. Unless they're literally as close as possible, I think it's a shot that Dirk/Durant/Melo/etc. can make with decent efficiency.

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

H2H in a fantasy draft MyLeague. I want to be able to make shots over players without even having to get them to back up. Unless they're literally as close as possible, I think it's a shot that Dirk/Durant/Melo/etc. can make with decent efficiency.

Gotcha. So the last play I had in the second video vs Kanter wasn't a makeable shot at a decent rate for you if the defense doesn't react?

[VictorMG]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Gotcha. So the last play I had in the second video vs Kanter wasn't a makeable shot at a decent rate for you if the defense doesn't react?

I get played tighter than that in the high post with Durant/Dirk, I think.

I hate that smother animation from the triple-threat. I feel like you should be risking a foul or a blow-by by engaging it, but it is what it is. Normally I just put my back to the basket and face back up. That gets me some space for the triple-threat jumper, but I also might not know the form as well as I need to.

The settings in the league I play in are also tuned so if you don't get a perfect release, you probably won't hit the shot from anywhere, so there's that. I hate that, for what it's worth.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

I get played tighter than that in the high post with Durant/Dirk, I think.

I hate that smother animation from the triple-threat. I feel like you should be risking a foul or a blow-by by engaging it, but it is what it is. Normally I just put my back to the basket and face back up. That gets me some space for the triple-threat jumper, but I also might not know the form as well as I need to.

The settings in the league I play in are also tuned so if you don't get a perfect release, you probably won't hit the shot from anywhere, so there's that. I hate that, for what it's worth.

100% with you on the smother animation.

Defenders are given the best of both worlds in that situation.

They should be more susceptible to the jab step, spin or blow by

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

I hate that smother animation from the triple-threat. I feel like you should be risking a foul or a blow-by by engaging it, but it is what it is. Normally I just put my back to the basket and face back up. That gets me some space for the triple-threat jumper, but I also might not know the form as well as I need to.

The settings in the league I play in are also tuned so if you don't get a perfect release, you probably won't hit the shot from anywhere, so there's that. I hate that, for what it's worth.

Agree with both of you RE: the smother animation. IMO for balance the three outcomes should be 1) contact foul 2) the blow-by you talked about and 3) the smother working....and each of those should have an equal chance of occurring with an added success rate for the blow-by if there are speed and offensive awareness mismatches....while great defensive badges/ability should raise the smother rate.

Victor, I think there's a good chance your league could use better settings. What do their settings do well in terms of making the game feel authentic?

[VictorMG]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Victor, I think there's a good chance your league could use better settings. What do their settings do well in terms of making the game feel authentic?

I totally agree, but unfortunately, I'm outnumbered. The other 6-8 players are MP/Park dudes (except for one), so no one agrees with me about perfects vs slightly early/slightly late.

On these settings, slightly early/late shots go in at less than a 20% rate, and it makes no sense to me. There are way too many different shots that have varying timing; to expect someone to get perfects consistently on pullups, drifters, post fades, post hook, spin jumpers, hop shots, etc., is insane IMO.

Plus people are shooting like 50% on open threes because (IMO) getting perfects is too easy, so it becomes a game of hunting for wide-open three-pointers and nothing else. I hate it. If it was up to me, perfects would be harder to get, but non-perfects would go in more.

I tried to use this shot as an example:

https://youtu.be/v1Li_OijvP0?t=39

There's no way Tatum is a good enough shooter to get a perfect release on that contest by Giannis, but pretty much everyone kept telling me that making that shot with a slightly early/late release would be ridiculous. I'd agree that doing that consistently wouldn't make sense, but not with rarity.

On the settings we have, though, that shot will literally never go in. I don't even know if Curry could make that with a contest by a top-tier defensive guard (I know Giannis isn't a guard, just saying that since Tatum is a forward and Curry is a guard).

But I've been outvoted, even though I made this league and let everybody know that it was about realism. As soon as I started making changes, like lowering Shaq's block rating because he was averaging 10 per game, people lost it. So I'm just going to finish the playoffs and peace out as soon as my last series is over, lol.

[Kushmir]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

I totally agree, but unfortunately, I'm outnumbered. The other 6-8 players are MP/Park dudes (except for one)

YIKES. I make it a point not to vilify people's play-styles but UGH [emoji30].....I think the larger point is to play with a group you're compatible with y'know?

I've always thought there should be a gap between open and contested shots but there are players (represented in gameplay by the deadeye badge I think) that absolutely make shots with contests. Are they shooting 45-50% consistently? probly not...but the point stands that those shots aren't impossible. This is where that AoE defensive thing really hurts gameplay...you still...like, GOTTA DO SOMETHING. [emoji58]

But I've been outvoted, even though I made this league and let everybody know that it was about realism. As soon as I started making changes, like lowering Shaq's block rating because he was averaging 10 per game, people lost it. So I'm just going to finish the playoffs and peace out as soon as my last series is over, lol.

Trust me I get it. Short answer is we're often looking for different things as far as the experience. Its nice to know settings changes are available to tune gameplay tho.