NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

[RayDog253]

I really like what Mike is bringing to back 2k11. The authentic Plays and the "Game Style" are two things I really liked about Live. All the new tendencies sound great, especially the playmaker and touches tendencies.

I wonder if they'll add a atmosphere setting as well.

[Jukeman]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

co-sign. "forget online"? get outta here. we already have the ability in 2K10 to use custom sliders offline, which gives us the option to cater to our playstyles in any way we want; so i'm not about to spazz out just because we've been thrown a couple of premade sets of sliders this year. aside from eliminating a trip to the 2K Share part of the menu, this means almost nothing to me if it's not online.


i don't know if mods are instructed to start groveling at the sight of any ol bone they're thrown or what, but online is a big deal to me. being able to use to the Sim playstyle online would be huge

As a slider guy, I hated NBA2k10 on the court (the bugs didnt help its case last year neither)

Like audio engineers, you cant make a bad mix into something that sounds great, but you can take a good mix and make it amazing...Smarter AI will help make a "amazing" NBA game despite having "preset sliders for realism"

.02

[DGMikeBarker]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

As a defensive-minded player I'm ecstatic about better shuffling with on-ball defense, and better attention to stop driving lanes. It makes the game more exciting when you have to work for a shot.

[NINJAK2]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

Great read. This was a pleasant surprise. Love the details on improved playcalling(with branching plays), improved player movement on offense and defense, etc. Looks like they did some work on Melo and PP which was needed...I love that tidbit about being able to make players pick up their dribble on the baseline too(hopefully we will be able to do that on all areas of the court). Can't wait to hear more.

[Saviour]

I love these developer insight, but they do sound like a lot of hype. I need to see if they actually fixed alot of the problems from last year. The action was so scripted it became frustrating at times. Last year they wrote a article claiming they implemented "shutdown defense". We all know how much of a joke that was. T2K10 was one the worst defensive games I ever played. Players were always out of position, and when they were in position it was only a 50% chance you could initiate the correct animation to do anything about the play. Passes to a cutting center would lead to a dunk all the time and the defense could not stop it. It was very rare that a defender tipped a ball even though he would be looking right at the play. Dunk animations were nice, but once they started they always finished even on misses unless you were lucky enough to trigger the block animation. Changes sound nice but I am skeptical that the execution will be done properly since they promised so much last year and they failed to implement properly. Please prove me wrong. This basketball engine has all the tools but man its missing rock solid implementation.

[eddykb]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

[quote=Jano;2041432080]The new defensive and fastbreak logic sound great can't wait to see them in action this year.

I'm real excited about 2K this year they are really looking to address a lot of issues can't wait to try out the demo.[/quote

sounds good

[pdx_24]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

Loves the message of “making a smarter game,” but very disappointed after reading of how they’re planning to make the game “smarter”. I must be among the few (the only one?) that did not like this insights because it looks like many of you in this thread are very excited. I’ll quickly address some of the changes talked about that I’m looking forward to and some that I’m lukewarm about. But my main focus – and gripes – will once again be on defense (or lack thereof).

I’m always for giving users more options, so I like the newly inclusion of “Game Style”. Personally, I don’t think I’ll even touch “Game Style” since I love adjusting the sliders to closely fit the way I want to play the game. Nonetheless, I see this feature as being useful for those who don’t like to spend a lot of time messing with sliders. I’m also excited about the added Tendencies, especially the Touches tendency. Stars and superstars just don’t touch the ball enough in all previous NBA 2K games. Their Usage Rates need to increase dramatically to get the sense of them dominating the game. The rest I’m either lukewarm about or don’t understand how the changes will affect gameplay yet.
Now onto my gripes. Take a look at this insights:

In last year’s game, it was very easy to get in the paint and get that high percentage shot close to the basket. This was an exploit because of the following: defensive logic with passes to the paint was lacking, poor block selection, and the absence of contact shots. Let’s start with the pass defense. Part of the problem last year was that it was too easy to thread the needle with passes to teammates in the paint. Defenders were either not reacting at all or too late to attempt to swat the ball away, leading to an easy penetration and bucket. Passes like these should be very risky since the receiver is usually in heavy traffic. Defenders are now smarter in tipping or stealing this type of pass.

When defending shots from underneath or close to the basket, there was a lack of physicality or shot contention in last year’s game. It even felt like defenders were not affecting the shots at all. Shooters will jump for an under basket layup, ghosting through defenders. To address this issue, you will now see more physical contact shots. In 2K10, if there’s a defender nearby, you will most certainly get bodied up and draw contact underneath the basket. This in turn, has a lower shot % than a regular uncontested shot. Overall, shot percentages underneath the basket have been tuned when defenders are around to contest.

<o></o>

This insights was written last year for 2K10! I call B.S. on any of this ever came to fruition in 2K10. In fact, I would say 2K10 was easier to score in the paint than previous NBA 2K games. I'd be very excited if the same was said for 2K11, but only this time mean it. By far the biggest problem for the NBA 2K franchise has been DEFENSE, DEFENSE, and some more DEFENSE. And in the paint defense is the biggest culprit for the defensive woes. It is ridiculously easy to thread the needle in the paint every time to a big man and have him score the basket 80%+ of the time. I can use a center with the lowest passing rating and still rack up assists by passing the ball on a dime to a player streaking to the basket or just passing it to the unguarded big man in the paint. It is ridiculous when I can easily score 90% of all my points in the paint. In the NBA, you’d have to play a very lousy defensive team to even score close to 40% of your points in the paint. The unbelievably accurate lead pass (by every player, not just the players with high passing ratings) and the stupidity of the AI defenders to not put a hand on their man in the paint is squarely to blame for this. Offball contact in the paint is much needed. Don't let offensive players roam in the paint willy nilly.

And please, not every big man is a Chris Paul when it comes to passing. Hell, not any player is Chris Paul when it comes to passing (not even Kidd). While I’m complaining about big men with point guard skills, how about totally making them useless with all the fancy ball handling? When was the last time Yao Ming dribble in traffic getting past defenders for a basket? In NBA 2K, at will. Let’s face it, the bigs have their advantage in height, not skills!<o></o>

Defense (in the paint) and lead passing are the glaring problems and this year’s insights on defense is this:<o></o>

Let’s start first and foremost with onball defense AI – preventing the ball handler from penetrating and getting to the hoop. When we first began development on NBA 2K11, revamping the defensive movement model was one of our top priorities - from both user-control and AI standpoint. This is essential especially for onball defenders. We could write the most intelligent defensive AI, but without the responsive and tight movement system to complement it, the whole system would feel broken. As often is the case with basketball games, the dribbler feels like they have so many tools at their disposal to break down the defender.

<o></o>

Preventing the ball handler from penetrating is not and has never been a problem. If it is a problem, it is that the defender are too well able to prevent the ball handler from penetrating. Shaq or Yao being able to stay with Chris Paul on the perimeter is an example. However, preventing the ball handler from getting to the hoop continues to be a major problem. There’s a fine and very important distinction there. As noted by 2K game developer himself, even the best perimeter defender cannot stop his man from going past him. What separates a great perimeter defender from an average one is he can slow down his man enough to allow help defense to come over in time to prevent the ball handler from getting to the basket. Perimeter defense is fine the way it is now. It is the help defense that is the problem. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of drawing a charge when they take it to the basket. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of the help defense coming over sending the ball to the fifth row. As it is right now, there is hardly charges drawn in the paint or any shot blocking from help defense.

Fix the help defense, especially in the paint defense. Completely re-work the lead pass and ball handling so that playmakers are appreciated for their skills and likewise finishers for theirs. Everything else is just spraying cologne on turd.
<o></o>
Sorry it is so long. I still have got a lot more gripes and suggestions, but done for now.

[bearschicago]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

Loves the message of “making a smarter game,” but very disappointed after reading of how they’re planning to make the game “smarter”. I must be among the few (the only one?) that did not like this insights because it looks like many of you in this thread are very excited. I’ll quickly address some of the changes talked about that I’m looking forward to and some that I’m lukewarm about. But my main focus – and gripes – will once again be on defense (or lack thereof).

I’m always for giving users more options, so I like the newly inclusion of “Game Style”. Personally, I don’t think I’ll even touch “Game Style” since I love adjusting the sliders to closely fit the way I want to play the game. Nonetheless, I see this feature as being useful for those who don’t like to spend a lot of time messing with sliders. I’m also excited about the added Tendencies, especially the Touches tendency. Stars and superstars just don’t touch the ball enough in all previous NBA 2K games. Their Usage Rates need to increase dramatically to get the sense of them dominating the game. The rest I’m either lukewarm about or don’t understand how the changes will affect gameplay yet.
Now onto my gripes. Take a look at this insights:
<O></O>

This insights was written last year for 2K10! I call B.S. on any of this ever came to fruition in 2K10. In fact, I would say 2K10 was easier to score in the paint than previous NBA 2K games. I'd be very excited if the same was said for 2K11, but only this time mean it. By far the biggest problem for the NBA 2K franchise has been DEFENSE, DEFENSE, and some more DEFENSE. And in the paint defense is the biggest culprit for the defensive woes. It is ridiculously easy to thread the needle in the paint every time to a big man and have him score the basket 80%+ of the time. I can use a center with the lowest passing rating and still rack up assists by passing the ball on a dime to a player streaking to the basket or just passing it to the unguarded big man in the paint. It is ridiculous when I can easily score 90% of all my points in the paint. In the NBA, you’d have to play a very lousy defensive team to even score close to 40% of your points in the paint. The unbelievably accurate lead pass (by every player, not just the players with high passing ratings) and the stupidity of the AI defenders to not put a hand on their man in the paint is squarely to blame for this. Offball contact in the paint is much needed. Don't let offensive players roam in the paint willy nilly.

And please, not every big man is a Chris Paul when it comes to passing. Hell, not any player is Chris Paul when it comes to passing (not even Kidd). While I’m complaining about big men with point guard skills, how about totally making them useless with all the fancy ball handling? When was the last time Yao Ming dribble in traffic getting past defenders for a basket? In NBA 2K, at will. Let’s face it, the bigs have their advantage in height, not skills!<O></O>

Defense (in the paint) and lead passing are the glaring problems and this year’s insights on defense is this:<O></O>
<O></O>

Preventing the ball handler from penetrating is not and has never been a problem. If it is a problem, it is that the defender are too well able to prevent the ball handler from penetrating. Shaq or Yao being able to stay with Chris Paul on the perimeter is an example. However, preventing the ball handler from getting to the hoop continues to be a major problem. There’s a fine and very important distinction there. As noted by 2K game developer himself, even the best perimeter defender cannot stop his man from going past him. What separates a great perimeter defender from an average one is he can slow down his man enough to allow help defense to come over in time to prevent the ball handler from getting to the basket. Perimeter defense is fine the way it is now. It is the help defense that is the problem. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of drawing a charge when they take it to the basket. Make it so that the ball handlers are worry of the help defense coming over sending the ball to the fifth row. As it is right now, there is hardly charges drawn in the paint or any shot blocking from help defense.

Fix the help defense, especially in the paint defense. Completely re-work the lead pass and ball handling so that playmakers are appreciated for their skills and likewise finishers for theirs. Everything else is just spraying cologne on turd.
<O></O>
Sorry it is so long. I still have got a lot more gripes and suggestions, but done for now.

I agree with everything you said. Another insight in 2K10 that was not true(perhaps it was a programming issue).

Living Rosters will update the playbook based on your team/coach, so your main squad will be up-to-date. Trades will happen that completely changes the team dynamics and with that, playbooks will need updating as well. I am sure that will be discussed in a future Living Rosters Insight.

http://community.2ksports.com/commun...id=987609&l=11

With regards to lead passing, pick-and-roll defense/lack of off-ball contact: How to fix the Lead Pass/Make it Realistic

My ultimate Sim wishlist: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...shlist-54.html Post #539 and 540 Tell me what you think.

2K10 would've been an amazing game if offball defense was more physical/realistic(putting a hand on their man), AI CPU were able to do canimation blocks like human users(Draft Combine had this) and lots of little glitches were fixed(AI CPU backcourt violations/AI CPU getting stuck in baseline areas/baseline layups not initiating any contact/etc).

But I have extremely high hopes for 2K11. The reason is this:

I'm wondering if 2K11 will finally include a simple animation of offball defenders 'putting a hand on the man he is guarding' especially within 15 feet? This occurs all the time in the NBA.

This will prevent cheap backdoor cuts/lead pass as well as providing some resistance when players try and cut to the rim.

First basketball video game to implement this animation will go a long way in the Sim department.

Also the lead pass needs to be toned down. Currently it is too fast and accurate. Needs to be fixed in two ways.

1. Lead pass is slow but accurate.
2. Lead pass is fast but not as accurate(have to gather to catch the ball).

For more info on this: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...realistic.html

Also the ultimate Sim wishlist. I posted this also on 2K Sports forums and also PM'd it to SimBaller here on OperationSports. He hasn't replied to me yet.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...shlist-54.html Post #539 and 540.

Beluba, could you please provide an answer or is it too early to discuss gameplay? Perhaps could you mention at least that you guys are tweaking on lead pass/passing in general and adding a simple animation of 'offball defenders putting a hand' on their man?

Would be much appreciated especially within this Sim community.

Sorry. It's too early to disclose info. Once we get closer to ship I'll be happy to share more details on what you can expect for 2K11. We have read your wishlist though and are incorporating your feedback the best we can.

Since I don't want Da-Czar calling me out again(he wrote that I post the same things too often) I will end it with this:

With Michael Jordan on the cover, Mike Wang back(Beluba) and the 2K staff reading my ultimate Sim wishlist, I honestly believe 2K11 will be an all-time great.

[DGMikeBarker]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

I would have some questions about it if I hadn't read the IGN preview which is praising 2k11. Also, 2k10 Insights were all true if you read carefully, just not as true as we'd like .

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

Im saddened by this BLOG post because all it does is make me think about how good COLLEGE HOOPS 2K11 would be...SMH!!!!!!

Damn! You're right. Now I'm bummed. Thanks man. :P

[rspencer86]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

Damn! You're right. Now I'm bummed. Thanks man. :P

Ugh, I don't want to even think about that. The lack of ANY college hoops game at all is a stake through my heart.

Alright, back to 2K11 and positive thoughts...

[reptilexcq]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

With all these tendencies that 2K added this year, i think they forgot one thing: Emotion tendency!! To take the game to a more super realistic level, they should have emotion tendency so players like Kobe would be seen raising his hand and wanting the ball to go to him when the Lakers are in trouble. And also how each player are likely to argue with the refs. These type of reaction is going to add more realism to the game rather than random reaction or emotional outbursts that they already have which is not represent the player at all.

[greenegt]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

GREAT blog! Can't wait to get my hands on the game.

[Hotobu]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

snip

LOL at the 2K10 defensive insight throwback. Could you send me a direct link to that? I knew there was stuff like that from year's pas that they didn't deliver on. It'd be nice to have a direct reference to it.

[Gmoney2002]

Re: NBA 2K11 Developer Insights: Making a Smarter Game

Very insightful indeed. 200 animations just for off-ball movement is staggering but i'll wait until the demo drops to see for myself...