Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

@The Fight

How are you managing to draw charges?

On those sliders? It feels like you have to be set for a full second if the guy is driving.

On the way that I play normally, you can get charges a little easier by moving the right stick in the direction that you think that they are going to be (basically, beat them to the spot). When you bump someone on the perimeter online, the first thing most people do is try go in the opposite direction. If you pick your spot (right person on D, right person handling the ball), you'll be fairly effective.

[Crossover1]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Thank you, gg.

The examples used by crossover didn't even make sense. "Everyone post up, including Allen Iverson?" Hell, he's not even in the game.

Seriously though, there are some things that need changing on the sim setting, and I'm sure you'll see that reflected accordingly.

How does that not make any sense? Lemme spell it out for u since u can't comprehend. Everyone posts up because the "look for post player" is at 80. Everyone bricks 3s because the 3pt slider is at 45. And everyone plays such good on ball defense because the on-ball defense slider is at 70.

Every time I say my point of view in any topic, u always find a way to go against it or even bash it as if you're the "end all be all" when it comes to sharing knowledge. Stop actin like your opinion is a fact. It's obvious u dislike me but I won't let that bother me.

[Pared]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

How does that not make any sense? Lemme spell it out for u since u can't comprehend. Everyone posts up because the "look for post player" is at 80. Everyone bricks 3s because the 3pt slider is at 45. And everyone plays such good on ball defense because the on-ball defense slider is at 70.

Every time I say my point of view in any topic, u always find a way to go against it or even bash it as if you're the "end all be all" when it comes to sharing knowledge. Stop actin like your opinion is a fact. It's obvious u dislike me but I won't let that bother me.

Seriously though, there are some things that need changing on the sim setting, and I'm sure you'll see that reflected accordingly.

I wouldn't be so quick to point out that someone can't "comprehend" something when you didn't even read what I wrote.

And I'd tone it down just a bit. No need to tell someone that.

[Pared]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

On those sliders? It feels like you have to be set for a full second if the guy is driving.

On the way that I play normally, you can get charges a little easier by moving the right stick in the direction that you think that they are going to be (basically, beat them to the spot). When you bump someone on the perimeter online, the first thing most people do is try go in the opposite direction. If you pick your spot (right person on D, right person handling the ball), you'll be fairly effective.

You're actually pretty spot-on here. Seems like you can induce charges much more frequently with the RS defense as opposed to the button.

I've found that to be pretty true.

I still don't think it's implemented well... and you also need to have the sliders waaaay up for charging fouls.

[Crossover1]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I wouldn't be so quick to point out that someone can't "comprehend" something when you didn't even read what I wrote.

And I'd tone it down just a bit. No need to tell someone that.

I was explaining what u thought "didn't make sense".

[Pared]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

It was a joke, one that obviously you didn't consider given your response.

It's not worth getting into it with you given this isn't the thread for it let alone the topic of what we are discussing and its validity isn't very questionable, judging by the comments I've read and from what I've seen.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I do have a disagreement when people alter sliders immediately or after playing 1 or 2 games. Start out on the sim setting, and when you have a good sample size look at your vip/association stats whatever and decide whether everything is acceptable. One guy was saying that his sliders work like a charm. But he is in 1st place using the Phoenix Suns. To me that makes a slider set a bad set. Suns should not be a 1st place team. So if a user is able to consistently beat better teams than their sliders give them a advantage over the AI.

My method for slider settings is play a few games with the same teams going against each other. E.g. I would play as the Wizards against the Wizards. Now common logic would suggest that it should be a very close game right? The only difference should be who better takes advantages of mismatches and strategy. So I would alter sliders to cancel out things such as stick skill. Example: My John Wall is getting to the rim easier than AI's John Wall. I should correct that.

I don't think anyone can claim to be having a perfect experience -- sliders or not. But using sliders does allow for one to fall in a trap of relying on sliders to much.

We agree that people should play on the preset that they identify with (don't see why it wouldn't be Sim) for some decent amount of time before tweaking the sliders. I know 2 people who didn't even make it a day without changing the sliders, even for the Jordan challenges. That's just ridiculous!

We disagree that the Suns/any team that's not the front runner of their division, should be leading their division. I'm more staunch on this one. (Invoke Herm on this one) You play to win the game, not to just merely be competitive or to put on a good show (sounds like smackdown vs. raw to me, or the Knicks and the Clippers right now). If he played the game and has gotten good enough with the Suns that now he's winning the majority of his matches, good for him. Blowing teams out? Maybe he should, raise the difficulty. Changing the sliders to increase the challenge often means nerfing the teams abilities (part assumption, part the examples given to me). I coach my team based on their abilities and I gameplan for other teams based on their abilities. Personally, I don't want to have to compensate for the (change in) sliders.

With this being said, we also disagree on mirror matches. I don't think it's common knowledge at all that the game would be close if you played Wizards on Wizards. The computer is a coach and so are you. Two different coaches with the same philosophy and same players will not get you the same results (see D'Antoni's Suns vs. 2009-10 Gentry's Suns). Playing against your VIP might yield you closer results (every time I play against my VIP, I play with teams that aren't in my VIP's top three). I will tell you that my VIP has kicked my A#& a few times. My D against my VIP is always bad. I see the passes and try to react but my VIP is looking to bait me and go back door. I haven't beaten my VIP this year when I trailed by more than 15 at any point in the game.

Once again we agree about your last paragraph.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

You're actually pretty spot-on here. Seems like you can induce charges much more frequently with the RS defense as opposed to the button.

I've found that to be pretty true.

I still don't think it's implemented well... and you also need to have the sliders waaaay up for charging fouls.

Running with the Knicks and you don't get charging calls? Chandler can take charges like batteries! Mainly because 3's (if you make him guard 3s) are quick but not fast. Really useful on wing iso's.

Agreed that it's not implemented in the best way but in watching a game, I feel like there are more blocks then charges called anyway (unless you're watching Houston). Benefit of the doubt always goes to the offensive player (it is still the NBA). To make a final point, it was WAY too easy get a charges in 2K10. The offensive player didn't have the right to land or plant and that pissed me off something wicked last year.

[erickonasis]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I have to pose the same question to you here that I did earlier: What would you do if there wasn't any sliders to modify?

Sliders <<<<<<<<<

[erickonasis]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Agreed. I say I'm playing on HOF/Sim all the time. I don't modify that preset though. I didn't start playing like that out of preference, I just thought it was the hardest mode when I got the game. Took me about a week to try the sliders after reading some posts and after about a week and a half, I went right back to simulation.

HOF / Default to me is the hardest setting...i can blow teams out on sim / hof. Default the CPU makes everything which makes for a better challenge

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

HOF / Default to me is the hardest setting...i can blow teams out on sim / hof. Default the CPU makes everything which makes for a better challenge

HOF/Arcade is the most difficult setting to I game I've play on a 360 this side of Ninja Gaiden.

Your sig makes me laugh, still.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I have to pose the same question to you here that I did earlier: What would you do if there wasn't any sliders to modify?

This question is a non-starter. If there were no sliders then gamers would have limited options as far as possible fixes for errors are concerned. That would be a large problem. Again the only real arguments against someone tweaking sliders is what I stated before (this is excluding the non-inclusive "makes the game" easier contingency, I'm talking strictly tweaking towards realistic outcomes). If you think this game was flawless on launch day then feel free to argue that point. If you think the problems the game has can't be fixed via sliders, argue that point. Either way, you have your work ahead of you. Again, challenging does not equal realistic. The first question is why, why does the game pose a challenge? There should be extensive bias towards a challenge based on true to life examples. This game is the best we've had yet in that respect but it still has some strides to make. This all assumes you want a game that represents NBA basketball to the fullest extent possible, if thats not what you're into then we've been wasting our time. We want two different games if thats the case.

( Btw, does your baseline argument apply to roster fixes, if not why? Do you think the rosters were perfect out of the box? Is the 2k Insider the best at what it does? Should gamers be free to make fixes for errors?)

[skte1ement]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

This thread has been very interesting to me. I have used a lot of your strategy discussion in learning NBA 2k11. I love how this game played before nerfing bumping and have restored it back to it's original settings. It sucks that we can't update to fix little glitches because of that but it's better than the alternative.

Now to my point. I have not used any slider changes on this game because I feel like the game is playing very realistically. This may change after a larger sample size, and if it does I may adjust it. If people adjust sliders for the right reason I don't see how it is wrong. Madden is grossly unrealistic and every year I have to adjust the sliders, most of the time decreasing human sliders amd increasing CPU sliders. This robs the game of certain animations and nullifys some plays that work on default but it also leads to realistic stats and a more competitive game, which IMO is better than throwing for 400 yards and scoring 35 ppg.

The main difference in NBA 2k11 is they actually know how to make games, but I think it's unfair to say sliders shouldn't be used at all.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

This question is a non-starter. If there were no sliders then gamers would have limited options as far as possible fixes for errors are concerned. That would be a large problem. Again the only real arguments against someone tweaking sliders is what I stated before (this is excluding the non-inclusive "makes the game" easier contingency, I'm talking strictly tweaking towards realistic outcomes). If you think this game was flawless on launch day then feel free to argue that point. If you think the problems the game has can't be fixed via sliders, argue that point. Either way, you have your work ahead of you. Again, challenging does not equal realistic. The first question is why, why does the game pose a challenge? There should be extensive bias towards a challenge based on true to life examples. This game is the best we've had yet in that respect but it still has some strides to make. This all assumes you want a game that represents NBA basketball to the fullest extent possible, if thats not what you're into then we've been wasting our time. We want two different games if thats the case.

( Btw, does your baseline argument apply to roster fixes, if not why? Do you think the rosters were perfect out of the box? Is the 2k Insider the best at what it does? Should gamers be free to make fixes for errors?)

Non-starter? Really? We're at 6,303 views in 7 days (or ~900 a day) for thoughts like this. If there weren't any sliders, people would either have to deal in some fashion (dropping the difficulty or just learning how to play as constituted) or not play the game. Happens everywhere else (where sliders aren't available) in the the gaming community. Mark you, because we STARTED with sliders it would be difficult to take them away from people but eventually people would make that decision to adjust or not play.

Side note: I'm under the impression that 2K included sliders to appease people, not potentially "fix" the game. Had they wanted to make sliders a bigger part of the game, I THINK that they would have included more presets and provided an option to tie some of the sliders together.

Back on task. I've never said that the game was perfect (i've typed this a million times now). I don't believe in tweaking the game to achieve a realistic outcome* (lets hope you mean realistic stats and not realistic outcomes). I believe, whole-heartedly, that there is a coaching or in game adjustment for every single reason why someone would adjust a slider. *barring the high amount of people's heads being above the rim.* That's my opinion. I still have bad habits that I try to kick and some things that were bad habits last year that I need to start doing again (*cough* *cough* Jump passing) but that's fine too.

If we all can a agree that the game isn't perfect, then why are we trying to shoot for specifics? (credit the wifey on this one)

"...This all assumes you want a game that represents NBA basketball to the fullest extent possible, if thats not what you're into then we've been wasting our time. We want two different games if thats the case."

This rubbed me the wrong way. Everything I've given tips about have been playcalls, team philosophy and fundamentals (and their proper usage) based. I live to practice on this game. And I've said all of this before. Before Pared said anything, I would have just flamed you for this, but I'll take my time here and ask where does that even come from?

In terms of the rosters, especially the living rosters and the game types that they apply to, they should be updated. Players develop and players regress. However, I, myself would not change anything. Letting 2K take care of that makes more sense to me because there is an over-arching value determination system that I would not want to even try to alter. There are "Good" 67 rated players and then there are "terrible" 67 rated players. It's not my call to change it. In terms of my Associations however, I will work players on their weaknesses as good coaches should. I don't like Martell Webster's D? The team will be Practicing D all week with the emphasis on Webster. I wouldn't go into the roster and outright change his ratings though. He has to earn it.

Last thoughts, I don't believe the rosters we perfect out of the box, but I feel that I'm better a player for learning how to use a player before their ratings changed (see my Jordan Crawford/ Mike Bibby example). I don't believe that gamers should have free license to make changes to a game, that's design run-a-muck. As a developer, you strive to provide a consistent and fluid experience throughout the game and over multiple platforms (obviously, to a reasonable point). With that said, should you be able to tweak somethings? 50/50. Not every gamer is the same and not every game is the same. To air on the side of caution, it seems to me that the industry decided that it's dependent on the video game genre. Sports games get tweaks, platformers/shooters get more difficulty settings and party games gradually bring you along at your own pace.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

This thread has been very interesting to me. I have used a lot of your strategy discussion in learning NBA 2k11. I love how this game played before nerfing bumping and have restored it back to it's original settings. It sucks that we can't update to fix little glitches because of that but it's better than the alternative.

Now to my point. I have not used any slider changes on this game because I feel like the game is playing very realistically. This may change after a larger sample size, and if it does I may adjust it. If people adjust sliders for the right reason I don't see how it is wrong. Madden is grossly unrealistic and every year I have to adjust the sliders, most of the time decreasing human sliders amd increasing CPU sliders. This robs the game of certain animations and nullifys some plays that work on default but it also leads to realistic stats and a more competitive game, which IMO is better than throwing for 400 yards and scoring 35 ppg.

The main difference in NBA 2k11 is they actually know how to make games, but I think it's unfair to say sliders shouldn't be used at all.

More disclosure: I just finished a 5 year boycott of all EA games because of the Madden contract. Madden is still banned.

I just don't get how people can play Madden any more.

I think the issue here is assessing what's wrong and what's right in terms of reasons for adjusting sliders. My advice to you, since you don't really believe in altering sliders, unless you can prove your point to the finest detail and are willing to do so often, just leave it at that. Enjoy the game, my man .