Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

[lasthour]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Hi there Fight, I am curious about why did you look at the game from the point of view that you are looking at it?

I myself have always looked at the game from the same viewpoint as you do. I just think that altering sliders can be good, but if you are not fully playing the game right then touching sliders end up being an addicting mess that subtracts from the original gameplay mechanics.

And by any chance are left handed also? Maybe that would explain your view of gaming? I am.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Hi there Fight, I am curious about why did you look at the game from the point of view that you are looking at it?

I myself have always looked at the game from the same viewpoint as you do. I just think that altering sliders can be good, but if you are not fully playing the game right then touching sliders end up being an addicting mess that subtracts from the original gameplay mechanics.

And by any chance are left handed also? Maybe that would explain your view of gaming? I am.

I'm ambidextrous by mistake, I'm teaching/forcing myself how to sign in script with my right hand (i right in print with my right, sign with my left). Bowl righty, I'm a switch hitter (feel more comfortable on the left, better power righty), I throw and shoot right handed.

I view the game the way that I do moreso because I used to program in C++. There has to be a lot of logic that goes into creating a slider and so the repercussions for changing one thing alters many other aspects of the game unintentionally. The sliders are independent and not tied to other sliders, therefore the balance that the programmers developed originally gets thrown. That matters to me because in order to cope, you start developing bad habits and playing like its 2k10 all over again.

Have a good one.

[AdamBa17]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Ok dude first off i agree with your strategy stuff, I do. To win in this game you have to run plays. Anyone who plays on AS or higher knows that. SO thanks for the common sense. i can tell you're still in HS. Because instead of backing up a point, you just get louder and repeat yourself. Take a debate class next term or year sir.

As a few have stated you are a hypocrite to the fullest. In your first post you rant on people who adjust sliders... Yet you play with an amped game speed and higher FT (yes making it harder) but that is not the point. You claim to play on the default sliders. yet you have adjusted them yourself.

Now to a second point. People who use sliders usually cant play 12 minute quarters. Really the default sliders are built for that, you admit that yourself. Like me personally. I play on 9 minute quarters, I have a life outside of video games. I have a job and go to school. being grown up really blows sometimes but hey you do what you have to do. I have to use sliders to get realistic #'s. I dont want a 78-80 game, I want 90-105 scale like the average NBA game. Adjusting the sliders is the only way to get the computer to play a 9 minute game like a 12 minute game and still make it basketball.

I doubt you will actually respond to this because I am not attacking you, and no the hypocrite statement is not attacking. it's stating a fact.

But do keep helping people out with strategy, i dont want to just flame you for the sliders debate. You do have a good young basketball mind. you remind me of myself. You know the game and a lot of people on here dont, they know video games. So I do encourage you to keep giving basketball strategy tips.

dude, youre quite a hypocrite yourself because you started off flaming him and then in the end you started being nice.

[Wildcat67]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The entire problem with the OP is that changing sliders does not = making it easier.

For example, I started out using the default sliders in my association, everything was fine, I'd win some I'd lose some, but 10 games in, I realized the leading stealer on my team had 4 steals for the entire year. Nobody on my team ever played the passing lanes or attempted to steal the ball. That's completely unrealistic.

Should I just live with it? I don't have to if I don't want to. So I change my tendencys to "go for steals" and "play passing lanes" and also increase my steal ability. I also increased these for the CPU.

So then obviously, if I have more steals, not only will the CPU have more turnovers (less shots), but I'll also end up with more fast break points. So to balance this, I realize that the CPU for the season is only shooting 20% in 3PT FGs against me. So I jack up their 3pt shooting.

Is the game easier? NO! I get a realistic amount of steals, but at the same time the CPU is now shooting 40%+ from 3pt range and they also get a few more steals as well.

How am I a worse player or making the game easier? Isn't the guy that just lets the CPU continue to brick 3PTs taking the easy way out as well?

[jeffc1]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The sliders are independent and not tied to other sliders, therefore the balance that the programmers developed originally gets thrown.

The issue at hand is the developers didn't consider the outcome at all. Due to time constraints most likely it appears they just threw out "templates" for us to use. Otherwise we would get realistic gaming/statistic experience using the default sliders.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The entire problem with the OP is that changing sliders does not = making it easier.

For example, I started out using the default sliders in my association, everything was fine, I'd win some I'd lose some, but 10 games in, I realized the leading stealer on my team had 4 steals for the entire year. Nobody on my team ever played the passing lanes or attempted to steal the ball. That's completely unrealistic.

Should I just live with it? I don't have to if I don't want to. So I change my tendencys to "go for steals" and "play passing lanes" and also increase my steal ability. I also increased these for the CPU.

So then obviously, if I have more steals, not only will the CPU have more turnovers (less shots), but I'll also end up with more fast break points. So to balance this, I realize that the CPU for the season is only shooting 20% in 3PT FGs against me. So I jack up their 3pt shooting.

Is the game easier? NO! I get a realistic amount of steals, but at the same time the CPU is now shooting 40%+ from 3pt range and they also get a few more steals as well.

How am I a worse player or making the game easier? Isn't the guy that just lets the CPU continue to brick 3PTs taking the easy way out as well?

I'm getting tired of people writing stuff like this. Don't twist what I'm saying to fit your argument.

To make a point, I'm going to be anal about this post because almost everything you say makes me want to question you.

"The entire problem with the OP is that changing sliders does not = making it easier."

1. So you're saying to me that there is no way to change the sliders to make the game easier?

2. If you change a slider to change the frequency of an action, does that not have an impact on how you play the game?

3. At what point are you and the computer on the same level? Are your tendencies sliding also? (If you raised the 3PT percentages for example for both CPU and Human, wouldn't that make you more inclined to take the shot from behind the arc, knowing that it's a higher likelyhood of it going in? Wouldn't the reverse apply also?)

"...Nobody on my team ever played the passing lanes or attempted to steal the ball. That's completely unrealistic."

1. What difficulty were you playing on?


"Should I just live with it? I don't have to if I don't want to. So I change my tendencys to "go for steals" and "play passing lanes" and also increase my steal ability. I also increased these for the CPU.

So then obviously, if I have more steals, not only will the CPU have more turnovers (less shots), but I'll also end up with more fast break points. So to balance this, I realize that the CPU for the season is only shooting 20% in 3PT FGs against me. So I jack up their 3pt shooting."

Wow, lets look at this critically.

If playing the passing lanes is turned up higher and go for steals is turned up higher but nothing is done for ball security, the game is in fact easier. The difference here is strictly how someone plays/knows how to do. What you're doing is overplaying the D. Any patient Offense would carve this up because the D isn't sitting at home. Back doors, give-n-go's and multiple cutters to the same passing lane makes that D obsolete within 8-9 seconds. *If you're going to change sliders, at least try someone else's on here first.* Basically, for the want of a realistic stat line, the D has to play unrealistically and the CPU Offense isn't allowed take advantage of that. How very realistic.

"Is the game easier? NO! I get a realistic amount of steals, but at the same time the CPU is now shooting 40%+ from 3pt range and they also get a few more steals as well.

How am I a worse player or making the game easier? Isn't the guy that just lets the CPU continue to brick 3PTs taking the easy way out as well?"

Lmao, a stat that you should be aware of is PPP or points per possession. If a team has less shots than you, gone to the line less and committed more turnover than you have, there are still instances where they will beat you. If you raise the steal success or even just the tendency to attempt a steal, coupled with the tendency to play passing lanes AND raise the D a funny thing will happen. A team is going to have less opportunities to score but more points per possession.

Maybe you don't see it that way so let me ask you this, given the example below, what's the outcome of the game:

The Magic shoot 32/78 from the field in a game including 8/20 from three and 9/13 FT's. The Lakers shoot 37/86 from the field, including 2/5 from three and a perfect 5/5 from the charity stripe.

I use the situation above because the Lakers have 8 more attempts than the Magic did (86 to 78) and converted 5 more times than the Magic did (37 to 32) and for the purposes of this conversation we can assume they had more shot attempts because the Duhon just couldn't hold on to the ball. Both teams are shooting 40% from downtown.

-Fight

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The issue at hand is the developers didn't consider the outcome at all. Due to time constraints most likely it appears they just threw out "templates" for us to use. Otherwise we would get realistic gaming/statistic experience using the default sliders.

Bull, that's a more sweeping statement than anything I've ever wrote in this thread.

No one goes 82-0 in the NBA. The closest was 72-10 right...Even in that year the Bulls lost to the damn Rapters. That's the 95-96, expansion year Rapters who were 18-49 at the time. That's the OLIVER MILLER RAPTORS. In a game where MJ, Kukoc and Kerr combined for 76 points.

The devs did a beautiful job of capturing the best two elements of
basketball in my opinion: Coaching and fundamental basketball (although I wish there was a way to have an icon lead bounce and lob pass, maybe next year ). If you can come up with the right strategy (and eventually adjust) for your opponent, and you can execute what you want to do on both sides of the court, then you'll win in 2K. You can see just in the play calling that they cared and considered the outcome of games. Moreover, why the hell would you play a game that you felt like you had no chance in winning? No one sits around getting ready to play and thinks to themselves, "Oh yea, I'm gotta pick the raptors today because I need to get my losses in..."

[RealSeahawkFan]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Bull, that's a more sweeping statement than anything I've ever wrote in this thread.

No one goes 82-0 in the NBA. The closest was 72-10 right...Even in that year the Bulls lost to the damn Rapters. That's the 95-96, expansion year Rapters who were 18-49 at the time. That's the OLIVER MILLER RAPTORS. In a game where MJ, Kukoc and Kerr combined for 76 points.

The devs did a beautiful job of capturing the best two elements of
basketball in my opinion: Coaching and fundamental basketball (although I wish there was a way to have an icon lead bounce and lob pass, maybe next year ). If you can come up with the right strategy (and eventually adjust) for your opponent, and you can execute what you want to do on both sides of the court, then you'll win in 2K. You can see just in the play calling that they cared and considered the outcome of games. Moreover, why the hell would you play a game that you felt like you had no chance in winning? No one sits around getting ready to play and thinks to themselves, "Oh yea, I'm gotta pick the raptors today because I need to get my losses in..."

I read your first post and many subsequent posts and I've tried playing NBA 2k11 on All-Star with the developers "Simulation" sliders. I played a couple of games and was absolutely destroyed.

But the truth is I have no clue about basketball strategy... I watch a lot of the NBA but the terminology often escapes me and I have no idea how to run plays, when to, etc. Is there a link or a website that you suggest that I can use to start learning about basketball fundamentals that are beyond Pick-and-Rolls and such?

[Wildcat67]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I'm getting tired of people writing stuff like this. Don't twist what I'm saying to fit your argument.

To make a point, I'm going to be anal about this post because almost everything you say makes me want to question you.

"The entire problem with the OP is that changing sliders does not = making it easier."

1. So you're saying to me that there is no way to change the sliders to make the game easier?

2. If you change a slider to change the frequency of an action, does that not have an impact on how you play the game?

3. At what point are you and the computer on the same level? Are your tendencies sliding also? (If you raised the 3PT percentages for example for both CPU and Human, wouldn't that make you more inclined to take the shot from behind the arc, knowing that it's a higher likelyhood of it going in? Wouldn't the reverse apply also?)

"...Nobody on my team ever played the passing lanes or attempted to steal the ball. That's completely unrealistic."

1. What difficulty were you playing on?


"Should I just live with it? I don't have to if I don't want to. So I change my tendencys to "go for steals" and "play passing lanes" and also increase my steal ability. I also increased these for the CPU.

So then obviously, if I have more steals, not only will the CPU have more turnovers (less shots), but I'll also end up with more fast break points. So to balance this, I realize that the CPU for the season is only shooting 20% in 3PT FGs against me. So I jack up their 3pt shooting."

Wow, lets look at this critically.

If playing the passing lanes is turned up higher and go for steals is turned up higher but nothing is done for ball security, the game is in fact easier. The difference here is strictly how someone plays/knows how to do. What you're doing is overplaying the D. Any patient Offense would carve this up because the D isn't sitting at home. Back doors, give-n-go's and multiple cutters to the same passing lane makes that D obsolete within 8-9 seconds. *If you're going to change sliders, at least try someone else's on here first.* Basically, for the want of a realistic stat line, the D has to play unrealistically and the CPU Offense isn't allowed take advantage of that. How very realistic.

"Is the game easier? NO! I get a realistic amount of steals, but at the same time the CPU is now shooting 40%+ from 3pt range and they also get a few more steals as well.

How am I a worse player or making the game easier? Isn't the guy that just lets the CPU continue to brick 3PTs taking the easy way out as well?"

Lmao, a stat that you should be aware of is PPP or points per possession. If a team has less shots than you, gone to the line less and committed more turnover than you have, there are still instances where they will beat you. If you raise the steal success or even just the tendency to attempt a steal, coupled with the tendency to play passing lanes AND raise the D a funny thing will happen. A team is going to have less opportunities to score but more points per possession.

Maybe you don't see it that way so let me ask you this, given the example below, what's the outcome of the game:

The Magic shoot 32/78 from the field in a game including 8/20 from three and 9/13 FT's. The Lakers shoot 37/86 from the field, including 2/5 from three and a perfect 5/5 from the charity stripe.

I use the situation above because the Lakers have 8 more attempts than the Magic did (86 to 78) and converted 5 more times than the Magic did (37 to 32) and for the purposes of this conversation we can assume they had more shot attempts because the Duhon just couldn't hold on to the ball. Both teams are shooting 40% from downtown.

-Fight

Sigh, I'm not gonna argue with someone that's so blinded by their own opinion. Nothing you said is relevant. You simply use whatever loophole to say their something wrong with changing the sliders to get realistic stats.

Bottom line - Before I changed the sliders I'd win about 60% of the time, but had unrealistic stats. After changing the sliders I still win about 60% of the time, but have realistic stats.

How could that possibly be twisted into a bad thing?

The fact you think that the CPU will somehow "know" that I turned up their 3PT shooting and shoot more 3s only displays your horrible understanding of the game.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Sigh, I'm not gonna argue with someone that's so blinded by their own opinion. Nothing you said is relevant. You simply use whatever loophole to say their something wrong with changing the sliders to get realistic stats.

Bottom line - Before I changed the sliders I'd win about 60% of the time, but had unrealistic stats. After changing the sliders I still win about 60% of the time, but have realistic stats.

How could that possibly be twisted into a bad thing?

The fact you think that the CPU will somehow "know" that I turned up their 3PT shooting and shoot more 3s only displays your horrible understanding of the game.

My man, I have 50+ posts in this thread. In some of those posts, I actually agree that some people who change their sliders make valid points and have real gripes. You would know this had you actually tried to read what I said as opposed to skimming through it, looking for flamebait. I don't loophole anyone. I highlighted your shoddy points and exposed their base because they weren't well thought out. Don't approach me with your crap and if you don't want me to respond. Support your argument intelligently.

The answer to my question is that it's a tie game at 81 a piece for all those interested.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I read your first post and many subsequent posts and I've tried playing NBA 2k11 on All-Star with the developers "Simulation" sliders. I played a couple of games and was absolutely destroyed.

But the truth is I have no clue about basketball strategy... I watch a lot of the NBA but the terminology often escapes me and I have no idea how to run plays, when to, etc. Is there a link or a website that you suggest that I can use to start learning about basketball fundamentals that are beyond Pick-and-Rolls and such?

Truth be told, if you don't have a clue about basketball strategy, I wouldn't suggest that you play on All-Star. That may be too stiff of a learning curve to conquer. Start with the Rookie level and work your way up.

In terms of basketball concepts, I don't know of a video series (besides Better Basketball) that will outright go over all the areas thoroughly without being boring or too slow. Of course you can always look on this site and on the Operation Sports channel on youtube and watch Da_Czar's instructional videos (I strongly suggest that you subscribe, http://www.youtube.com/user/MrOperationSports). I do know of a site, however, that I gave to a couple of my co-workers who wanted to coach their young kids but have no experience with actually playing ball.

http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/basics/basics.html

On that site, I would you suggest that you take a look at the screening page (http://www.breakthroughbasketball.co...l-screens.html). This will help you when you are in a free flow offense in 2K.

As it relates to 2K:

X and O's - Actual Position - Direct Passing/ Positional Play calling button (360)

1 - Point Guard - A button
2 - Shooting Guard - B button
3 - Small Foward - X Button
4 - Power Foward - Y Button
5 - Center - Left Trigger

Play calls involving one number usually involves a drive or drive and pass situation after some number of screens.
Example: 1 Double
Explaination: The Point guard will have to make a decision after running through 2 screens. His options will include:

1. taking both screens and making an attempt to score at the basket;
2. taking both screens and taking a jump shot as the Defense attempts to switch
3. taking one screen and passing to the better match up after the person who set the screen rolls (makes a move toward the basket) or pops (make a move away from the basket, normally in an area where they can take a jump shot)

Amongst others. Generally, point guard make their decisions based on what the D gives them, the pace of the game and what matchups are advantageous at certain sections of the court. Last thing, Point guards normally make scoring decisions at the foul line.

If you have anything specific that you want to ask about, I'd be happy to help.

Have a good one (until next week when my G-Men meet your gutter birds, I mean seahawks )

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I'm getting tired of people writing stuff like this. Don't twist what I'm saying to fit your argument.

To make a point, I'm going to be anal about this post because almost everything you say makes me want to question you.

"The entire problem with the OP is that changing sliders does not = making it easier."

1. So you're saying to me that there is no way to change the sliders to make the game easier?


-Fight

Dumb statement. I definitely take issue with your horrible logic on this one. That is not what the poster said. He said that sliders =\= making the game easier.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Dumb statement. I definitely take issue with your horrible logic on this one. That is not what the poster said. He said that sliders =\= making the game easier.

*throws hands up in the air*

I know what he meant. It's the fact that making statements like that are ridiculous and is the EXACT same thing that people have badgered me for.

Very simple concept: with the availability to change all the gameplay aspects, one can make the game harder or easier. You can't have one without the other.

Everything I've said and even things I haven't said has been critiqued for about 5 days now. I've sat back and read everything that people have written that was directed toward me and replied with something that either illustrated a point, provided a solution or asked a question.

Now, tell me that people don't drop and raise the sliders to make the game easier for them to play. Tell me that people don't raise the sliders to make it easier to get achievements (which up to yesterday, I didn't even know was possible). Tell me that you know exclusively that no one does any one of those things (and don't tell me about "the majority of people," I've reiterated and repeated that this post was aimed toward a concentrated audience one too many times) and I will show you people who do. I will show you achievement driven people that will do far worse than slider adjustments. I will show you cheezers who live for their ranked winning percentage and practice with sliders that make it easier for their online game to translate to their offline game.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, are looking to harp on a negative point of anything I say, then I will make all of my posts longer so that you have to draw from. Aside from that, you're just being nitpicky.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

*throws hands up in the air*

I know what he meant. It's the fact that making statements like that are ridiculous and is the EXACT same thing that people have badgered me for.

Very simple concept: with the availability to change all the gameplay aspects, one can make the game harder or easier. You can't have one without the other.

Everything I've said and even things I haven't said has been critiqued for about 5 days now. I've sat back and read everything that people have written that was directed toward me and replied with something that either illustrated a point, provided a solution or asked a question.

Now, tell me that people don't drop and raise the sliders to make the game easier for them to play. Tell me that people don't raise the sliders to make it easier to get achievements (which up to yesterday, I didn't even know was possible). Tell me that you know exclusively that no one does any one of those things (and don't tell me about "the majority of people," I've reiterated and repeated that this post was aimed toward a concentrated audience one too many times) and I will show you people who do. I will show you achievement driven people that will do far worse than slider adjustments. I will show you cheezers who live for their ranked winning percentage and practice with sliders that make it easier for their online game to translate to their offline game.

If you, or anyone else for that matter, are looking to harp on a negative point of anything I say, then I will make all of my posts longer so that you have to draw from. Aside from that, you're just being nitpicky.

First off I am reading your entire post. I only quoted that portion because a.) that was the only thing I took issue with, and b.) the post was too long to quote in its entirety.

The only issue I have is this: Stop saying or implying that sliders=making the game easier. Do many players use them for that? Sure. Maybe even the majority. But that is not their function.

Never did I say that no one uses sliders to make the game easier. I am not being nitpicky. I just do not like people making generalizations and assumptions. Sliders =/= making the game easier.
Read what I quoted. You took what he said and twisted it to mean something else. Apart from that, the rest of what he said was garbage, but on that point he was right.

There is nothing wrong with using sliders.

[teddyballgame78]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I'm just gonna add that while you raise some good points your not talking about anything that's not common knowledge. Sliders make the game easier or harder and change the dynamic of the gameplay.

What's getting people so pissed off is your very first statement that suggests people should learn the fundamentals of basketball rather than adjust sliders. Implying that people don't know the game of basketball and to me that's a loaded statement on this site. It's gonna keep pissing people of because it looks like your attacking anyone who uses sliders.

I think your helping people who don't understand the X's and O's of the game is great though.