Examples of CPU Cheating...

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  • LandoRigs
    Rookie
    • Mar 2004
    • 47

    #46
    Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

    All of you make very good and valid points and I wanted to add in my two cents.

    There is a huge difference playing on "Simulation" versus playing on "Default" slider settings. If you are finding that "Simulation" is handicapping your team too much, go to default. Last night, I experimented with the two and found that your A.I. controlled teammates are far more active and intelligent on "Default" than on "Simulation." I know playing "Simulation" adds to the challenge for some people but for others like me, you don't get the best out of the game.

    I've both won and lost on "Simulation" but unlike when I play on "Default," there is huge lack of balance between how well my team plays and how the CPU team plays. I've turned off anything that has to do with "Clutch" and it doesn't help. I am making the best decisions with the ball (and when I make a bad decision I own up to it) but the CPU players will go into some crazy animations to get the steal. Yet when I am in great position on defense to get a steal, the ball will go right through my player at least half the time. I can play the greatest of defense and the CPU player will go into an animation like he's possessed in order to still score even when I got a clean block on the ball that should have altered its trajectory. I am also pretty good with the shot stick and after hitting a good balance of shots in the first half, in either the third or fourth quarter, it is like it is programmed for me to miss almost every shot from 2-feet and beyond. At the same time, the CPU can not miss no matter what I do and my rebounding goes south. And let's not even talk about how the game favors the CPU in fouls, non calls, and calling me for a blocking foul when I had perfect position for a charge and the CPU just bulldozes over me.

    I know sliders can fix all these things but the truth is that "Default" just plays the better game for me and allows me to have the best of both worlds in realism and fun. If the CPU does something great, it seems to happen within the flow of the game and not through clunky and outlandish animations. And, here's another key, I don't have to run a play every single time down the court in order to get my players to move. On "Default," when I use Orlando, Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, Quentin Richardson and Jameer Nelson all look to get open on their own without the ball. This doesn't happen on "Simulation." It could have something to do with the On-Ball Physical Defense sliders but the amount of contact on "Simulation" makes for a rough game flow.

    So I'm a "Default" guy. But I am happy that the 2K developers gave slider settings that can appeal to nearly anybody who plays this game. So for those who like "Simulation" that's there for them. For people like me who like "Default," that's there for us. And then we can always change the sliders to whatever we want. Overall, I'm having a blast with this game and it's the best basketball game I've ever played, period.
    Last edited by LandoRigs; 11-16-2010, 12:53 PM.

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    • Mos1ted
      MVP
      • Sep 2002
      • 2267

      #47
      Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

      I'm currently playing a Hall of Fame/Simulation game for quarter by quarter analysis purposes to exactly how the CPU plays each quarter. In past games, I've noticed most of the 'cheating' starts in the 3rd...

      I just completed the first quarter as the Chicago Bulls versus the Houston Rockets. I'm down by 5 (26 - 31), but I am currently winning in the rebounding department 10 to 7. There was one offensive possession were Noah grabbed 4 offensive boards. I was loving that (ended up being fouled after the 4th board so the trip ended in free throws).

      They must have done some tweaking again because it's less bumping involved, and I'm getting to the paint almost at will with Derrick Rose. I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. It doesn't feel like it's too easy to get to the paint. I'm just making smart moves with isomotion. I'll watch this closer once I play with a backup PG to see if it's still as easy. Rose has 17 pts, 2 assists, 1 steal, and 2 turnovers up to this point. I ended the quarter with 4 turnovers to Houston 3.

      Houston is getting some pretty good looks inside, but I credit most of that to my weak interior defense at this point. I haven't been putting as much intensity on defense as I should. I'm going to concentrate more defensively in the 2nd quarter and see I can make an impact.

      More to follow after the 2nd quarter.....
      According to my old marketing professor, satisfaction is when product performance meets or exceeds consumer expectation.

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      • Mos1ted
        MVP
        • Sep 2002
        • 2267

        #48
        Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

        The second half wasn't as kind to me, but I can happily say this: the butt whooping I received happened within the realms of basketball. I had my second team in at the start of the quarter, and I can honestly say that we were just outmatched defensively. The Rockets play so uptempo, so they are hard to defend. They scored 41 that quarter while I scored 32. I had to match their tempo (or try to at least) just to try to keep up. To me, that's good basketball because that what teams want to do in real life - make the other team play to their tempo.

        If I had 20 point losses against the computer in that fashion, I would not complain because the computer beat me playing basketball and nothing else.

        Rose finished the half with 21 points and 8 assists. Man to man defense has definitely been toned down with the latest NBA Today rosters, but this is a good thing to me because it cuts down on all the bumping. So far, when I had space, I was able to blow by defenders. I'm also shooting 3 for 6 from three while the Rockets are shooting 4 for 7 from downtown.

        I'm currently down 58 - 72. Now on to the dreaded 3rd quarter. Let's see how this goes...
        According to my old marketing professor, satisfaction is when product performance meets or exceeds consumer expectation.

        Comment

        • kcm139
          Rookie
          • Sep 2009
          • 68

          #49
          Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

          the only ones that really tick me off are:

          1. full court bombs (i put passing down, but instead of stopping full court bombs, it just makes them have trouble inbounding the ball under pressure)

          2. my stupid ai that dont dive for loose balls, dont jump for rebounds, dont guard their men (well, sometimes.... might just be that they are bad defenders naturally)

          Im actually gonna try to up hustle for this one though

          3. my inability to initate contact compared to their super ability to initiate contact

          I love being punished for trying to drive to the rim repeatedly (though its a little too much under some occasions) but i really want to be able to dish out the same punishment the computer gives to me. I actually have an easy or decent time stopping guard penetration. I just cant initiate contact anywhere 10 feet from the rim.

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          • Mos1ted
            MVP
            • Sep 2002
            • 2267

            #50
            Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

            Just finished the 3rd quarter. Still down overall, but only lost the quarter by 2 points. Usually at this point of the game, I see the CPU turn to Superman and just have all kind of things turn its way, but that wasn't the case this time.

            I'm noticing throughout the game that the animations aren't as drawn out as before; particularly in the paint. Like LandoRigs mentioned in his last post, a lot of the advantages the CPU got before were animation related, or as I called it, animation manipulation. Since the animation sequences seemed to be toned down in this game, CPU is playing straight up basketball to win which I'm not mad at all about. I'm down by 16 but I still have a smile on my face. I can honestly say I'm losing for a couple of reasons: First, I tried to force some passes on a couple of possessions that hurt me after I brought the game back to single digits; Second; I'm not doing a good jump contesting shots. I mean I am (I got 10 blocks that quarter), but I'm not at the same time because the CPU got a lot of good looks at key moments of the game hence the reason why I haven't closed the gap. I'm essentially trying to outscore them or keep up with them versus trying to get stops.

            Also, I'm getting separation on fast breaks. Speed differences actually matter. When I get D. Rose running in the center of the court, no one from behind is catching him, and that's the way the game should have been from launch. I think the toned down on ball defense is responsible for that. There's no magnet keep the defender on you which I like.

            On the negative side, there is no fouls going on, and I typically average about 25 attempts a game on simulation. I had zero free throw attempts that quarter 6 for the game (the Rockets only have 7). Field goal percentages are 50% for me and 55% for the Rockets, but I credit that the pace of the game. Uptempo games generally have higher field goal percentages (just look at the All Star games).

            I'm winning the offensive rebound battle 11 to 6, but I'm losing the overall rebounding battle 25 - 28. Points in the paint are at 52 (me) and 50. I have 14 total blocks to the Rockets 2. Fast break points are low, but I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the bug that some have reported (fb points not adding up correctly)

            But so far, the game has played out dynamically, and that's all we ask for on higher difficulty settings. Let the CPU beat us with better basketball. Now on to the 4th...
            According to my old marketing professor, satisfaction is when product performance meets or exceeds consumer expectation.

            Comment

            • Mos1ted
              MVP
              • Sep 2002
              • 2267

              #51
              Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

              Finally finished the game, and I was impressed overall. I lost by 14, but I was impressed with the fact that no crazy animations influenced the outcome of the game. The CPU has a perfect shot release on Hall of Fame, so as the user, you have to be sure you're there to contest the shot. The Rockets have good shooters, so they will nail most open looks that you give them.


              Here are the final stats from that game. Once again, this was on Hall of Fame/Simulation with clutch factor and 12 minute quarters. No other options that would affect gameplay (sliders, etc) were altered.

              Bulls (Me) Rockets
              Points 115 129
              FG % 51 54
              3 PT 6/17 7/15
              FT 9/10 10/13
              Assists 24 33
              TO's 18 10
              Tot Reb 34 36
              Off Reb 15 7
              Steals 9 17
              Blocks 19 3
              PiP 68 64
              Ben. Pts 19 29
              2nd Pts 13 12
              FB Pts 6 12


              Since 2K toned down the "animation clutter" somehow, the controls were much more responsive, and player speed in the open court played out dynamically versus the CPU having a speed advantage. Like I mentioned earlier, no one was catching Derrick Rose from behind unless I voluntarily slowed down.

              If they keep the gameplay the way it is, I think you'll see less complaints about how CPU plays on the higher difficulty settings. In my opinion, that was a legitimate game from the CPU. Sure, they have a perfect shooting touch while the Human doesn't, but I can live with that since I was able to influence the shots when I actually contested them. Something tells me they will probably tweak the game again and have it revert back to its heavy drawn out animations, but I say enjoy it like this while it lasts.
              According to my old marketing professor, satisfaction is when product performance meets or exceeds consumer expectation.

              Comment

              • fcabanski
                Banned
                • Nov 2009
                • 350

                #52
                Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                eXample of Humans cHeatING

                ME LAKERS Human Bulls

                Leading by 8 points after a furious 3rd quarter comeback in which I was hitting all my shots while playing tough defense to keep the human at 30% for the quarter, I suddenly couldn't hit anything.

                The Human was getting a lot of foul calls in the 4th quarter, and I couldn't get any.

                I ended up losing 104-102 when my last second 3 from Artest missed. He was 4-4 on 3's in the 3rd quarter, but suddenly missed at the last second.

                I wanted to CTRL-ALT-DEL the human, or at least blue screen or red ring of death him. But I'm a PS3 so at most I could black screen him on game exit, but didn't.

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                • Sam Marlowe
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 1230

                  #53
                  Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                  <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7Y3Pv6zAbNw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7Y3Pv6zAbNw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

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                  • carnalnirvana
                    Pro
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 1981

                    #54
                    Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                    i turned the quickness to 0(both sides) and gamespeed to 54..... so far on allstar their reactions seem to be spot on. if you are not in position you wont make the play. i am less frustrated on the glass and fast break also help defense is not a pain as before....
                    NOW PLAYING: NBA Live, madden 11,12, battlefield v, F1 2020 and injustice 2 and COD:MW

                    #18 greatest EVA....

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                    • ndlive
                      Rookie
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 109

                      #55
                      Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                      <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WTOtaOllWeM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WTOtaOllWeM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

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                      • Zubber
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 80

                        #56
                        Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                        There are two games modes right? simulation and Default... what exactly is the difference between the two?

                        Comment

                        • Mos1ted
                          MVP
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 2267

                          #57
                          Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                          Originally posted by Zubber
                          There are two games modes right? simulation and Default... what exactly is the difference between the two?
                          Simulation is designed to slow the game down more and force the user to work more with a half court offense. There are more fouls, more contact, and lower shot percentages. It's designed to emulate the real NBA from an offensive and defensive perspective. This is for the stat junkies that want their stats to emulate real NBA stats over 48 minute games.

                          Default is how the game is designed to play straight out the box. There are no gameplay changes to it. Stats are pretty similar in my opinion, but it plays a bit looser so some prefer simulation over it.
                          According to my old marketing professor, satisfaction is when product performance meets or exceeds consumer expectation.

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                          • H to the Oza
                            Rookie
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 258

                            #58
                            Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                            ndlive I hear you man I just lost a game by Amare laying it up THROUGH the backboard, and 1.

                            Im playing 29 game association and the second half of the season the comp has turned it up in the 4th Q. I didnt find there to be a problem in the 1st half of the season, sometimes I came back on the AI, sometimes they came back on me. In the 2nd half of the season im 3-9? wtf? I havent changed anything, if anything Ive gotten better at the game.

                            It seems like the CPU picks up every lose ball, deflection, and when if I ever make a good play and deflect the ball it goes out of bounds. When the CPU makes a good play the ball stick to their hands like glue.

                            I have been getting smoked on the in rebounding (offensive glass) since halfway through the season. Iam literally on the verge of missing the playoffs because the CPU has been impossible to stop. Ill mention again, the game seemed more fair the 1st half of the season (updates??)

                            One of my only wins recently (vs the Pacers), B. Roy shot 22-25 yet I only won by 3.

                            I am beyond frustrated.

                            Hello Call of Duty

                            Comment

                            • Boge
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 1689

                              #59
                              Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                              I didn't read through the whole thing, but the TC said a number of times "reaction time". I think this should become one of the player ratings for next year.

                              Comment

                              • ravensheat
                                Rookie
                                • Apr 2009
                                • 40

                                #60
                                Re: Examples of CPU Cheating...

                                HOF with Sim setting on is the biggest BS Ive ever seen, anyone ever seen the cpu miss?

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