Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

I don't play much offline, the CPU isn't much of a challenge and is very predictable. My player is only fun for so long also. I like the competition of playing a thinking human and so I can't be adjusting sliders to compensate for poor planning. The game is good, but too many things keep it in the same league as 2k10.

That would be your problem. You're playing online. Every sports game ever made sucks online, because of...wait for it...wait for it...THE ONLINE COMMUNITY. Why waste your time playing a bunch of cheesers? It's pointless and boring. I'll never use online for anything but rosters, I'm yet to ever play a sports game online that hasn't been an exploit-fest. It happens this way with every sports game. There's always something that people can figure out to get the cheap scores and cheap wins, and then it's suddenly about who can be cheaper, instead of who can play the game better. Playing online is just a waste of time.

There's nothing wrong with 2K's technology. It's leaps and bounds ahead of Madden in every single way, right on par with the Show, too. Is it perfect? No. But no game ever will be. It's the closest representation to its sport I've ever played.

[Pared]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

The Show has been same exact game for the last 3 years with updated rosters, so I wouldn't use that game to prove your point. NBA 2K is best sports game this gen easily. People still want shinny graphics over pure sim gameplay.

This is the type of non-sense why these threads SUCK.

I probably shouldnt have used the word ps2 tech but its easier to say, but basically what i'm saying is that 2k series has been a port of the ps2 game, it was never built from the ground up to utilize the 360 or ps3 technology, some people will disagree but look at god of war 1 and 2 then look at 3 that is the jump Im looking for in this game.. Granted sports games have a shorter dev cycle but so what.

And what exactly is "the 360 or PS3 technology" you're referring to?

See, this is why these threads drive me nuts. You don't even know what you want or are referring to.

You made a post regarding runs.... how many basketball games do you see all the time that have these same "runs" that you're referring to? How many times do you watch a game and say, "damn, here comes that run" because you're expecting it? How is that any different here?

People really don't realize how balanced this game is. Use your timeouts, call some plays, set the tone. And if you're getting blown out, stop using Detroit. They suck.

[Brinkybon]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

I can appreciate where OP is coming from with this thread, and no doubt there have been times where I've been screaming at the TV cursing where I've been sucked into an animation (one of the primary issues, I think, with the current engine)or put up a stupid layup/shot because I'm at a certain position on the baseline that inevitably gets swatted when I would have much preferred a jumpshot. To an extent, I certainly agree with the sentiment. I'm going to add the disclaimer that I do agree that 2k11 is the most polished basketball game ever, for what its worth.

But the engine does have flaws and exploits, and no matter how many times you beat out some phrase on how awesome it is, this is going to remain true. And there's no denying that past issues have been addressed, and when I first played 2k11, I was amazed at how aptly 2k had resolved prominent issues from 2k10.

But what's important is how you address the problem. Being an RTS player, I can tell you that patching and balance in those games is a hit and miss, because some of the patch developers only ever think on a simple level - the result is that one imbalance gives way to another, ad infinitum. There are things in 2k gameplay that would fall into this same single level resolution. For example, one of the main issues with past games was that big men could just dance around the key until there was a slight miscue from the D, and then bam, dunk. In 2k11, this is addressed by the D being able to force lesser ball handlers to lose their dribble, but in general, it was addressed by making most big men rubbish at dribbling the ball. A viable solution in its outcome, but not at all holistic - this should have been an issue addressed by improving movement (both for O and D), something which has always been a tonne of beef jerky for 2k.

AI is another area that leaves much to be desired, and I swear this actually used to be better. End game AI play running/calling is pure rubbish in 2k11, and notably in My Player, AI left to its own devices takes some god awful shots that would get you sent to the bench in a hurry. The result from this? Realistic FG%. Not because dudes hit and miss shots in the flow of the game, but because there's always one dude on the team jacking up 3-16 to balance out his teammates hitting 70% FG. You can say adjust your sliders, but this still shows an inherent issue with the AI.

On a lesser note, there are things like the success rate of your shot being dependent on how passes you the ball (better passer = higher likelihood), which makes sense to a degree, is still kinda stupid; if the pass is right, it shouldn't really matter who the player is. Another similar issue, is with the success rate of a shot being higher if its run through a play than if the same player had caught the ball at the same spot while freestyling. This used to be worse in 2k10 (Ronnie Brewer running a play for a 3 at the top of the key was in every time), but in 2k11, both of these have become more minor grievances of mine, but nonetheless are issues I have.

Am I whining too much? Probably. But I would like to see some new gameplay dimensions added to future incarnations, rather than 2k just spit polishing the same things again and again.

[Pezell04x]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

Since when were you guys qualified to predict 2K's profits and losses sheets?

[greenieblue]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

I can appreciate where OP is coming from with this thread, and no doubt there have been times where I've been screaming at the TV cursing where I've been sucked into an animation (one of the primary issues, I think, with the current engine)or put up a stupid layup/shot because I'm at a certain position on the baseline that inevitably gets swatted when I would have much preferred a jumpshot. To an extent, I certainly agree with the sentiment. I'm going to add the disclaimer that I do agree that 2k11 is the most polished basketball game ever, for what its worth.

But the engine does have flaws and exploits, and no matter how many times you beat out some phrase on how awesome it is, this is going to remain true. And there's no denying that past issues have been addressed, and when I first played 2k11, I was amazed at how aptly 2k had resolved prominent issues from 2k10.

But what's important is how you address the problem. Being an RTS player, I can tell you that patching and balance in those games is a hit and miss, because some of the patch developers only ever think on a simple level - the result is that one imbalance gives way to another, ad infinitum. There are things in 2k gameplay that would fall into this same single level resolution. For example, one of the main issues with past games was that big men could just dance around the key until there was a slight miscue from the D, and then bam, dunk. In 2k11, this is addressed by the D being able to force lesser ball handlers to lose their dribble, but in general, it was addressed by making most big men rubbish at dribbling the ball. A viable solution in its outcome, but not at all holistic - this should have been an issue addressed by improving movement (both for O and D), something which has always been a tonne of beef jerky for 2k.

AI is another area that leaves much to be desired, and I swear this actually used to be better. End game AI play running/calling is pure rubbish in 2k11, and notably in My Player, AI left to its own devices takes some god awful shots that would get you sent to the bench in a hurry. The result from this? Realistic FG%. Not because dudes hit and miss shots in the flow of the game, but because there's always one dude on the team jacking up 3-16 to balance out his teammates hitting 70% FG. You can say adjust your sliders, but this still shows an inherent issue with the AI.

On a lesser note, there are things like the success rate of your shot being dependent on how passes you the ball (better passer = higher likelihood), which makes sense to a degree, is still kinda stupid; if the pass is right, it shouldn't really matter who the player is. Another similar issue, is with the success rate of a shot being higher if its run through a play than if the same player had caught the ball at the same spot while freestyling. This used to be worse in 2k10 (Ronnie Brewer running a play for a 3 at the top of the key was in every time), but in 2k11, both of these have become more minor grievances of mine, but nonetheless are issues I have.

Am I whining too much? Probably. But I would like to see some new gameplay dimensions added to future incarnations, rather than 2k just spit polishing the same things again and again.

First off, nicely put.

Secondly, I think what your argument here is that essentially you would prefer that NBA 2K be a better video game-- like, say, The Show-- than simulator of the real sport.

Take for example OOTP Baseball, unarguably the best simulation of a real sport made today. There are many times when you are playing that game that you can predict the outcome of specific plays. For instance, when a guy is rounding first and headed to second and you just know-- based on the fact that he doesn't hit many doubles, or that there is man on third and there are two outs and he isn't an RBI guy-- that in all likelihood he will not make it to second. But you accept that, because it is about simulation. Or, even more clear and apparent, when Mark Reynolds comes to plate, having not struck out in 5 games, you know in all likelihood he will strike out. This is simulation. It is statistically based, and somehow or another the statistics will even out. They just do. Now a good simulation engine is also able to statistically go wild, because there are many factors. If the pitcher on the mound, in the example above, is Jamie Moyer, odds are Mark Reynolds will not strike out. So, you lay a sound statistical base, and let them bang in simulation. This produces nearly unpredictable results that are statistically plausible.

A good video game gives the user more control at the expense of simulation, to a certain degree. Of course, ratings in sports games will always inform production meaning that no sports game can be solely a video game. But some are close, and most provide settings to handicap the simulation aspect. NBA 2k11 has millions of different slider settings, game modes, etc. There is really no reason to complain about a game with so many options because you don't enjoy the default settings. I have never understood this. I realize (trust me) slider tweaking can be monotonous, frustrating, pointless work. But, odds are, that someone is tuning sliders that would appeal to you.

2k11 really does offer a game for everyone-- casual, hardcore, online ballers, nerds, simulation freaks, etc. You just need to find the proper settings.

Please remember that what has been hailed as the most impressive AI for a game ever-- that being, the computer that beat Gary Kasparov at chess-- was as predictable as a human, was reacting to user input, was making moves based on calculations, etc. And won. Do you think that Joey Graham wasn't on the court the other night thinking, "Lebron is going to drive right, into the lane for a layup"?

I'm not saying that people need to accept the simulation aspect of the game. I think they can tune it out. That's the beauty of NBA 2k11... well, that and the graphics and stats and association....

[dipset2050]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

Unbelievable.

This entire thread's concept is utterly ridiculous.

As a couple people have mentioned - what makes you think new indicates better?

And what makes you think that the XBOX 360 isn't already being pushed to near its limits?

What are you guys looking for? 3D? For the players to jump out of your screen? For limitless animations? If people got to spent one development cycle seeing how hard it is to get some of what you make seem like "simple things" done, you'd change your tune. This game is light years ahead of the PS2 or Old Tech.

I swear, it will never be enough for you guys. In fact, the entire premise of this thread was built on the fact that you couldn't hit a shot "in your opinion" for 3 quarters yet hit everything under the sun - which has nothing to do with "tech".

Sigh.

[BallH4wk31]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

That would be your problem. You're playing online. Every sports game ever made sucks online, because of...wait for it...wait for it...THE ONLINE COMMUNITY. Why waste your time playing a bunch of cheesers? It's pointless and boring. I'll never use online for anything but rosters, I'm yet to ever play a sports game online that hasn't been an exploit-fest. It happens this way with every sports game. There's always something that people can figure out to get the cheap scores and cheap wins, and then it's suddenly about who can be cheaper, instead of who can play the game better. Playing online is just a waste of time.

There's nothing wrong with 2K's technology. It's leaps and bounds ahead of Madden in every single way, right on par with the Show, too. Is it perfect? No. But no game ever will be. It's the closest representation to its sport I've ever played.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpmIBJ_MKas

There's no exploit cheese this year in Madden, people just try to make big plays, which is also a big risk. Idk what cheese you're referring to, unless it's coming out in 5WR or going on 4th down or something else totally legal. I don't do that, but I don't mind facing it. Most people who complain usually just can't handle pressure being constantly put on them by a user. Everyone you meet claims to be "good" at sports games...but you are only as good as your competition. Beating a CPU only makes you that good.

My gripe with 2k is that the players don't feel fluid, they don't do what I'm telling them, they're unresponsive and chocked full of poor animations. 2K has way worse cheese by the way. As for the show, gameplay is pretty good, but the makers still have a lot to learn about situational baseball for my player modes.

[mlp111]

Truth be told, 2ksports have probably hit the "limit with this generation console!" it's only so much they can do with this console, just wait until the next generation console comes out, or either it's time for 2k to really focus building on the ps3, but 2k11 is the best sports game out besides MLB the show, FIFA isn't even close to 2k, EA is headed in the right direction with real time physics, 2k needs to implement something similar to get rid of the suction and canned animation, but even with that 2k11 is the most realistic sims experience of a sport game to date IMO!!!!!

[mlp111]

A new engine for 2k shouldn't be implemented until a new console is released IMO....

[bamalam]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

I read TONS of comments around the net by people saying that 2K has the same game every year. Sure it's not true, but for the "casual" gamer (or whatever you call it) - it's pretty much the truth. For many people 2K11 = 2K10+Jordan+roster update+better lighting.

If 2K isn't going to boost their engine next year, I predict HUGE losses for them. Not everyone buys basketball games that make you use real tactics to beat it and/or reflect real stats.

Many people still buy new games because they assume they're going to be very different than the year before. No new engine = the same game, for many people.

this post could have come straight from 06-present.

it is the same posts every year. meanwhile 2k is dominating competition. they continue to make strides and continue to grow in sales.

i predict continued greater sales for 2k12 because most people want realism and reality based stats/tactics.

the option for that is fake stats/tactics /arcadey gameplay. vast majority based on sales want a sim /realistic experience.

[rockchisler]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

This is the type of non-sense why these threads SUCK.





And what exactly is "the 360 or PS3 technology" you're referring to?

See, this is why these threads drive me nuts. You don't even know what you want or are referring to.

You made a post regarding runs.... how many basketball games do you see all the time that have these same "runs" that you're referring to? How many times do you watch a game and say, "damn, here comes that run" because you're expecting it? How is that any different here?

People really don't realize how balanced this game is. Use your timeouts, call some plays, set the tone. And if you're getting blown out, stop using Detroit. They suck.

You are not feeling or listen Pared..1 st off Knicks and Mets Suck, 2nd of all i'm talking about a game with 2 human players going head to head and the times when u miss the whole game then miraculously both teams are Jordan at the end of the game hitting shots they haven't the whole game. And the runs Im talking about are Before anybody hits a shot to get it going. There are other issues in the game that people gloss over but Im just bringing this because this bothers me. If you want to close this go ahead Ill just create a blog about it. I don't want to ruffle anybodies feathers around here but it seems I have.

[tutking]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

I thought it was already brought up that there is no such thing as an "engine".
I think Beluba explained it that what is called an engine is all the different parts of the game that detail movement, physics, animations etc.

So when you say "tweaked" gameplay aren't those changes to different parts of the "engine"

Take this year for example now all of a sudden you can't walk the ball up the court because the animations system was changed and they werent able to add walking back in because it screwed things up. That signifies a change to the "movement engine" to me if I'm not mistaken.

[TUSS11]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

Truth be told, 2ksports have probably hit the "limit with this generation console!" it's only so much they can do with this console, just wait until the next generation console comes out, or either it's time for 2k to really focus building on the ps3, but 2k11 is the best sports game out besides MLB the show, FIFA isn't even close to 2k, EA is headed in the right direction with real time physics, 2k needs to implement something similar to get rid of the suction and canned animation, but even with that 2k11 is the most realistic sims experience of a sport game to date IMO!!!!!

If we're talking about gameplay, which this thread is about, then FIFA far exceeds 2K. The ball is always loose in FIFA, a dynamic that doesn't fit with 2K's tendency for canimations. In 2K, hands constantly warp through the ball because the game is pre-determined in many cases. This is why the game has canned passes, canned steals, canned blocks, canned charges, canned lay-ups, canned dunks, etc. They don't have the tech to make the ball loose so they use canimations to avoid warping.

Player movement...not debateable. In FIFA you can move in all directions without fighting animations. In 2K, moving in any direction other than towards the basket is a chore. If you move the left stick back you'll get some random multiple-dribble animations where your player hops around and controller input is ignored until the animation is done.<O</O

On higher difficulties in FIFA, the A.I. reacts faster to take advantage of opportunities. 2K's higher difficulties merely give the CPU attribute boost to provide a challenge. This is just my speculation but I think the technology they're using makes it difficult to properly implement degrees of artificial intelligence.<O</O

These issues aren't just surface blemishes. They're rooted at the heart of the game. Sure we can ignore them, but sooner or later they're going to have to address them. And believe me, it's not going to be pretty.

[Jesus]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

All i see is complaints about things that need to be improved, nothing that gives the slightest clue that things need to me completely overhauled.

[TUSS11]

Re: Sooo when will 2k stop using ps2 tech?

All i see is complaints about things that need to be improved, nothing that gives the slightest clue that things need to me completely overhauled.

The game is built on canned animations... not exactly something you can just tweak.