2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

[Xx Qontrolz xX]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

by the way guess what (lol) i never said zone was cheesy, i can crush it all day long, it's definitely not an exploit

i just said it's not nba like and i more than once quit a ranked game against some1 who uses it all game long, like i quit when ppl use another unrealistic stuff ALL GAME LONNNNG ( like iso + stepback + mid range shot with DRose OR PNR + lead pass etc ...)

i can adapt and beat that, but i just dont want to.. pure waste of time imo

if i wanna play zone, i ll buy the next euroleague game

[jyoung]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

2-3 Zone All Game

Don't hate on me for wanting to relive my high school days.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

by the way guess what (lol) i never said zone was cheesy, i can crush it all day long, it's definitely not an exploit

i just said it's not nba like and i more than once quit a ranked game against some1 who uses it all game long, like i quit when ppl use another unrealistic stuff ALL GAME LONNNNG ( like iso + stepback + mid range shot with DRose OR PNR + lead pass etc ...)

i can adapt and beat that, but i just dont want to.. pure waste of time imo

if i wanna play zone, i ll buy the next euroleague game

The reason they dont play 2-3 zone in the nba is because mid range jumpers and 3 pointers will kill it all day long. and in the nba, most players even big men can knockdown midrange shots. The problem is most players dont want to adapt, so yeah if a 2-3 defense was working all game for me because the offense wont adapt, I am gonna do the sim thing and not needlessly adapt myself and play man to man because it suits them better. Personally, I dont like 2-3 zone in this game because too many people are in love with the 3 ball but thats another story for another day. My point is the only reason anyone switches to a 2-3 zone is because they are getting killed inside. If you keep going inside, and the 2-3 is stopping you, why should I change. name me one NBA coach that would change in that situation, and I will ask you why he hasn't been fired yet. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Jesus]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

lmao @ those complaining that "its not the way the game was meant to be played" or "its against the nature of the NBA".

As long there is a reliable counter for a skilled user, then its not an exploit. Have fun with your zone.

[iLLosophy]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Fact: Most NBA teams wouldn't know how to run a zone if they tried...only a few teams practice and run zones effectively (i.e. Mavs). Even then, they don't default to it.

My guess is (i never played zone in organized bball in real life) is that it requires either a lot more stamina or mental focus to play a zone than it does man to man. I'm assuming Golden State doesn't run zone in real life, so suffice it to say if they were playing a game today and tried it, they would look awful doing it and not know their assignments and ultimately it should have worse results than playing man.

That is where the problem comes in. If it were easier for real teams to run zones they would be doing it. For whatever reason, zone is a more difficult or cumbersome defense to run, and the game doesn't account for that. Hell a lot of times they get the defensive assignments wrong playing regular man to man, but somehow they are able to play zone perfectly.

There is something out of balance with the video game in regards to zones. Either it should only be done successfully with guys that have def awareness over 75 or it should drain fatigue faster. Otherwise, running zone all game is not realistic and in my opinion an exploit. Just double team and/or deny the ball against star players.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Fact: Most NBA teams wouldn't know how to run a zone if they tried...only a few teams practice and run zones effectively (i.e. Mavs). Even then, they don't default to it.

My guess is (i never played zone in organized bball in real life) is that it requires either a lot more stamina or mental focus to play a zone than it does man to man. I'm assuming Golden State doesn't run zone in real life, so suffice it to say if they were playing a game today and tried it, they would look awful doing it and not know their assignments and ultimately it should have worse results than playing man.

That is where the problem comes in. If it were easier for real teams to run zones they would be doing it. For whatever reason, zone is a more difficult or cumbersome defense to run, and the game doesn't account for that. Hell a lot of times they get the defensive assignments wrong playing regular man to man, but somehow they are able to play zone perfectly.

There is something out of balance with the video game in regards to zones. Either it should only be done successfully with guys that have def awareness over 75 or it should drain fatigue faster. Otherwise, running zone all game is not realistic and in my opinion an exploit. Just double team and/or deny the ball against star players.

you are semi right, the fact is it leaves a lot of mid range opportunities, and most nba players are gonna knock those down all game long, I dont think its any harder its just not as effective do to more talent and guys who can knock down shots more consistanly rendering the defense ineffective. but if someone wants to continue to force the issue of going to the basket, why wouldn't you play a 2-3 to make that a foolish thing to do. force them to knockdown the open midrange jumper or let them something dumb like continue to attack a defense where they are currently strongest.

Also I dont get where it would fatigue guys faster, if anything it conserves energy, by not chasing the guys running off screens, and letting the other guys pick them up. Man up is probably the most physically demanding. I do agree with you on defensive awareness though. but the arguement of it requiring more stamina i think is just flat out wrong.

[ffaacc03]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Again, people are missing the point ... playing a zone, most or all of the game isnt unbeatable nor does it is cheese or an exploit and isnt an atrocious terrorist way of playing ... I love to face most zones as they tend to make my life more easy as my game relies on moving the ball ... then again, it is definitively not an authentic sim approach and it is against the nature of the game, which isnt the wide concept of basketball but confined to the more specific realm of the "NBA".

Within that scope, the "NBA", it truely isnt correct to play a zone all game long. We have to be objective rather than make assumptions such as the statements revolving around that NBA teams would use zones more often given certain conditions ... given certain conditions anything could happen indeed, but the happening within the game of things that dont happen in the "NBA" is without a doubt, against sim and against the nature of this "NBA" videogame.

This approach doesnt make you a bad player or cheeser but it doesnt make you an authentic NBA sim player, neither.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Again, people are missing the point ... playing a zone, most or all of the game isnt unbeatable nor does it is cheese or an exploit and isnt an atrocious terrorist way of playing ... I love to face most zones as they tend to make my life more easy as my game relies on moving the ball ... then again, it is definitively not an authentic sim approach and it is against the nature of the game, which isnt the wide concept of basketball but confined to the more specific realm of the "NBA".

Within that scope, the "NBA", it truely isnt correct to play a zone all game long. We have to be objective rather than make assumptions such as the statements revolving around that NBA teams would use zones more often given certain conditions ... given certain conditions anything could happen indeed, but the happening within the game of things that dont happen in the "NBA" is without a doubt, against sim and against the nature of this "NBA" videogame.

This approach doesnt make you a bad player or cheeser but it doesnt make you an authentic NBA sim player, neither.

But you guys are missing the counter point of, it's just not a very good defense and easily beatable by talented mid range shooters which are a dime a dozen in the NBA. But if you are playing against a moron who just wants to go inside all game and not even think about jumpshots except for kickout 3's off wild passes after his driving failed, why would you switch off that. If any NBA coach knew that all the opposing team was gonna do was drive and get themselbes trapped around the basket by a 2-3 zone, they would run it more. NBA coaches don't face half the idiots on this game who only know drive, hopstep and dunk/layup, or jack up a step back 3. lets face it 90% of the people you play online don't play basketball. that is what they do. Who cares if someone runs a 2-3 zone, If you are playing basketball it should be a fairly easy game. As I said I dont run the 2-3 a lot in this game, but i switch to it when someone tries to hopstep pumpfake and layup all game but someone who takes open midrange jumpers, I am manning them up all game.

Some people take "sim" too far. Sim doesnt mean let a guy just drive past you all game and get layups and dunks, you adjust, till they adjust to your adjustment, if they never adjust, continue to exploit their idiocy.

[iLLosophy]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Also I dont get where it would fatigue guys faster, if anything it conserves energy, by not chasing the guys running off screens, and letting the other guys pick them up. Man up is probably the most physically demanding. I do agree with you on defensive awareness though. but the arguement of it requiring more stamina i think is just flat out wrong.

Like i said, I don't know why it isn't done - it's been a long time since i played zone in HS....I was just speculating. If it's not stamina then it's something else. That was just a logical guess since it's used a lot more in high school & college ball. Your point about midrange shooters makes sense so we can go with that.

I usually only play zone when guys are isolating and my guy can't guard him or if they have dominate post players (i.e. howard, yao).

[fluent2332]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

But you guys are missing the counter point of, it's just not a very good defense and easily beatable by talented mid range shooters which are a dime a dozen in the NBA. But if you are playing against a moron who just wants to go inside all game and not even think about jumpshots except for kickout 3's off wild passes after his driving failed, why would you switch off that. If any NBA coach knew that all the opposing team was gonna do was drive and get themselbes trapped around the basket by a 2-3 zone, they would run it more. NBA coaches don't face half the idiots on this game who only know drive, hopstep and dunk/layup, or jack up a step back 3. lets face it 90% of the people you play online don't play basketball. that is what they do. Who cares if someone runs a 2-3 zone, If you are playing basketball it should be a fairly easy game. As I said I dont run the 2-3 a lot in this game, but i switch to it when someone tries to hopstep pumpfake and layup all game but someone who takes open midrange jumpers, I am manning them up all game.

Exactly. But it's not even just idiots who the zone is effective against. I was playing a legitimately good sim style player, who was using the 76ers. I was banking my chips on the fact that Iguodala and company were not going to hurt me from long range, so I was baiting him into WIDE OPEN 3s with those guys (Iggy, Thad Young, etc). He kept taking them. So why the hell would I switch my defense up when he is doing exactly what I want him to do? Then he quit and said GS doesn't play zone in real life. Well like I said, I like to pretend I am coaching the team and in my philosophy they play zone. Especially against a team who can't shoot and refuses to work the ball around to find an open mid range shot. There is absolutely no reason to switch to man to man at that point. I'm not trying to simulate what you see on TV, I'm trying to add my OWN twist to what you see on TV, and win the game. At the same time though I play realistically, distribute my shots well, use the midrange game, etc, but I will also pick on you and exploit your weaknesses every chance I get. Wouldn't any smart NBA player or coach do that?

Running zone is definitely not an exploit, that much is clear. It's not overpowered in any way. It should NOT drain fatigue faster, far from it. It should conserve fatigue more. And the zone has plenty of lapses, and my guys like Radmanovich, Curry, David Lee, are always making mistakes, especially on help rotations, to where I just have to shake my head and blame their defensive awareness. They give up wide open dunks man, and you can see that they should have rotated but didn't, it gets real frustrating. So the zone is definitely NOT overpowered. Even the zones I've faced I absolutely destroyed with midrange shots and 3s. The zone is absolutely beatable if you use the right counter strategy. If you continue to have yourself get baited into wide open 3s with bad shooters, you will not beat the zone.

I look at this game like a chess match. I consider each player their own coach. Over time you develop a philosophy of how you want to try and win, just like any coach does. Sure, random users online aren't always the brightest and like to try and abuse certain things like running around in circles with D Wade trying to get penetration, but still, each player has their own technique, and most of the 'cheese' we see gets stopped dead in it's tracks because the game is so realistic. The users who approach it like a chess match you can definitely tell the difference when you play them, and in that sense the game is very rewarding to those who approach it as such.

But to say that playing a zone is unrealistic in some way, is just sour grapes. And who's to say that a team like PHX doesn't turn around and start using zone more, with a forward-thinking coach like Gentry? Maybe I am just ahead of the curve. I still stand by the fact that teams in real life SHOULD use a zone more, and bait teams into shots, because not every team has reliable "zone busters" as we saw briefly in the PHX-LA series of a couple years back.

Sure you want your game to simulate what you see on TV in some way, which means don't do stupid ish like run around in circles trying to get by your man, but at the same time you can try and employ your own strategies for trying to win, and using zone is just another legit strategy you can use.

Let's take it one step further. Is setting double team to "always in the paint" non-sim? Some teams don't do that in real life, so should I not do it in the game? Should I not try to use my own strategies to win the game? How about "deny ball" for 3 point shooters. Golden St. in real life doesn't deny the ball against 3 point shooters, would I be wrong to use that setting then? Of course not. But "sim heads", if you're going to criticize using a zone, you have to criticize using ANY of the special options we're given in this game. How about your substitution patterns? Is it un-sim to use your own rotation and give the guys your own amount of minutes? Or do I need to play guys exactly how many minutes they get in real life? Should I just lazily try and emulate every exact detail as I see it on a television screen, or try and create my own "television screen" with myself as coach?

I just don't feel it cheapens the game at all, or makes it "less NBA". Hell, we're given the option to use it for a reason, it's in the game for a reason. Channel your inner NBA coach and use ALL your options that are given to you. I happen to think that the game gives you all these options to make it a more deep and rich experience, and lets you experience some of the things it takes to be a head coach (lame I know, you're not actually coaching your team, but by using all the special options you're given it can feel as if you are). The game is designed to be PLAYED in a deep way, using all the customization options you have at your disposal. To play it in a lesser way is selling yourself short of the full experience, which to date is the richest NBA experience you can have with a video game.

[Xx Qontrolz xX]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

But you guys are missing the counter point of, ....... continue to exploit their idiocy.

i have a question.. why would u even finish a game against a guy playing like that? i see it as a total waste of time and i know it will frustrate me even if i win

u rly have fun playing those games?

[fluent2332]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

i have a question.. why would u even finish a game against a guy playing like that? i see it as a total waste of time and i know it will frustrate me even if i win

u rly have fun playing those games?

I sure do, I'm not a quitter, and I don't consider myself to be on some higher pedestal then those guys. Sure they might not be the best players or have the best skills, or the most knowledge about basketball, but I don't hate on them either like most "sim" guys do. I play randoms all the time and I have a blast, whether it's shutting down their cheese or just stopping them in their tracks, it's great fun and rewarding too. Oh and it's challenging, because there are some guys out there who know this game well, and can really make you pay. It challenges you to try and stop them. So no, not everyone is like you my man, some of us have fun with the game.

[VDusen04]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

I am definitely in agreement with the original poster and the others who have supported his point. But I believe I also see the other side. I have a tough time of finding a true definition of "sim" but often it seems to come across as a type of role-playing game style. As in, it's not necessarily about finding a functional strategy, but rather, trying to win a game by emulating what two players mutually believe to be the right way to play with each club. Or in this case, that'd mean not sitting in a 2-3 zone all game regardless of circumstance.

I can certainly see the appeal in this definition of "sim" but it just does not appeal to me personally. I am much more drawn to the type of basketball described by the original poster and those who agree with his viewpoint. I, just like fluent2332, do not like playing against people who use exploits to win games (though I'm not sure what the exploits are this year) but I do like the freedom to employ my own strategy and react freely to what I see on the court. So, with that in mind, I'd gain satisfaction from recognizing another player's offensive deficiencies, switching to a 2-3 zone and subsequently clamping down. That is what's fun to me.

I think this difference in philosophies and what we're looking for from the game itself is what makes linking up with strangers so tough sometimes. I see absolutely nothing wrong with fluent's strategy as I do not believe he is taking advantage of a glitch or anything of that matter. It's a strategical decision in my book. I think a lot of the fun to be gained from this game comes from developing your own road map, being your own coach. On the other hand, I can fully understand how that'd be bothersome who is looking for a very different and specific type of head-to-head game in return.

[ecworldwide]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

I got your back Flu i agree 100% To beat a 2-3 sometimes you have to use 20 sec on the shot clock to get a good shot. It takes time and focus but i can beat the zone and anyone can if you use sim ball tactics. Check youtube thier are alot of videos to stop the 2-3.

[dukebeatsuncagain]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Are you guys really trying to say playing a 2-3 zone is "not allowed"

Dude, its a defensive scheme that teams do use.
Sometimes people take "playing sim" waaaay too far.