2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

[DemiGodzillla]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Seriously, if your argument is "it doesn't happen in the NBA" just leave the post, it doesn't happen in the NBA (all game) because it would get destroyed by most teams, if you can't make that same adjustment don't whine as if the other person isn't being fair to you by not making it easy for you.

[NINJAK2]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Again, people are missing the point ... playing a zone, most or all of the game isnt unbeatable nor does it is cheese or an exploit and isnt an atrocious terrorist way of playing ... I love to face most zones as they tend to make my life more easy as my game relies on moving the ball ... then again, it is definitively not an authentic sim approach and it is against the nature of the game, which isnt the wide concept of basketball but confined to the more specific realm of the "NBA".

Within that scope, the "NBA", it truely isnt correct to play a zone all game long. We have to be objective rather than make assumptions such as the statements revolving around that NBA teams would use zones more often given certain conditions ... given certain conditions anything could happen indeed, but the happening within the game of things that dont happen in the "NBA" is without a doubt, against sim and against the nature of this "NBA" videogame.

This approach doesnt make you a bad player or cheeser but it doesnt make you an authentic NBA sim player, neither.

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing a zone all game if that is what you choose to do (I play man to man 90% of the time). My beef with zones in 2k11 is that the lack of zip on passes and the ability for defensive players to move as fast as the ball is passed can make it extremely hard to move the ball around leading to turnovers and deflections. Fast ball movement is imperative in beating zones. These issues in 2k11 can make playing a zone way more effective than they would be in the real NBA.

With me using the Sixers I do see alot of zones online and minus Meeks, Speights, Williams I struggle knocking down midrange j's. I struggle with those 3 as well...

[Pared]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Seriously, if your argument is "it doesn't happen in the NBA" just leave the post, it doesn't happen in the NBA (all game) because it would get destroyed by most teams, if you can't make that same adjustment don't whine as if the other person isn't being fair to you by not making it easy for you.

Settle down.

No one is whining and they're all having a good discussion. No need to come in with this attitude.

[ffaacc03]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

OK, I see peopple are still missing the point ... there are plenty of alternatives to deal with people attacking the basket or just playing in the post ... playing zone is one of them ... and playing zone all game is exactly the same as recurring all game to the same offensive tactic ... so, in other words, you would be dealing unsim with unsim.

Again, this is not about using zones, this is not about the effectiveness of zone but rather it is all about going to the extreme of playing zone an entire game (which I generally love as it suits my play style of moving the ball around) ... this is not about been a cheeser, a bad player or a flagrant violator of all santity ... this thread topic says that is a legitimate tactic and I agree, what I dont agree with, is that it is call a sim approach.

Anyways, in order for not causing unnecessary controversy, I will just leave it at that: I exclusively and restrictively agree with the topic, nothing more.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

OK, I see peopple are still missing the point ... there are plenty of alternatives to deal with people attacking the basket or just playing in the post ... playing zone is one of them ... and playing zone all game is exactly the same as recurring all game to the same offensive tactic ... so, in other words, you would be dealing unsim with unsim.

Again, this is not about using zones, this is not about the effectiveness of zone but rather it is all about going to the extreme of playing zone an entire game (which I generally love as it suits my play style of moving the ball around) ... this is not about been a cheeser, a bad player or a flagrant violator of all santity ... this thread topic says that is a legitimate tactic and I agree, what I dont agree with, is that it is call a sim approach.

Anyways, in order for not causing unnecessary controversy, I will just leave it at that: I exclusively and restrictively agree with the topic, nothing more.

Agree to an extent. I feel it would be even more "unsim" to needlessly get away from a strategy, especially when teams continue to feed into your strategy. No NBA coach would change a defence that another team was attacking the defences strengths.

[MMurda]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

i see no prob with running that zone all game if u want to. if u can master it then so be it. theres nothing cheesy about it cuz it can get dissected with the quickness. hell even the cpu will tear u up for running 2-3 zone...thats why i use it only in extreme cases of getting whooped in the paint. the nuggets D is just not good enough to run 2-3 well enough for extended time. if thats the way u wanna "coach"...no probs the way i see it, esp if u can be successful with it. like someone else said in here...good midrange shooters are dime a dozen and can destroy a 2-3 with ease....i know i will with the nugz...even the bigger men can shoot (galinari, harrington, chandler).

sim in my opinion is sticking inside the realms of pseudo reality and not using exploits or cheese. if u do that, ur sim in my book. i will admit theres varying levels of sim...hell some will do EXACTLY as real life and follow that as close as possible. we all are our own "coaches" so to speak, so i wouldnt expect everyone who's sim to do exactly what the actual coaches in the nba do. we're putting our own style into our teams. i dont agree with george karl, so my nugz will put jr out on the floor and let him "live" and we will also crash the boards more instead of letting the big men shoot all day and not bang in the paint.

[ILLSmak]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Mostly when someone says something "isn't sim" or quits against you it means what you were doing was cheesy. And if you refuse to try to look at it from their point of view then you are kind of a jerk.

There comes a point when you're like, "I'm going to keep doing this my way and I don't care if it makes him angry." Or you'll say, "Well, for this game I will stop playing zone just to show him that I don't need it to win."

You can't compare the NBA to 2k because 2k has a lot of differences. The defenders are actually better on 2k than they are in the NBA because they don't make mistakes. Depending on what player you are controlling in the zone and what you are doing with it, you could definitely make it cheesy.

If you understand where to be you can probably roam the whole time with no consequences. It's at least a bitch move and maybe even all out cheesy to do the same thing over and over again.

Don't say what about man to man, either... because that would be pretty weak.

It's a game, sure, play to win, but if you want to create a sim experience it comes down to actually catering to the other player as well because both players have to be on the same level in order for optimal enjoyment and therefore getting a real lifelike experience out of the game.

-Smak

[rockchisler]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Mostly when someone says something "isn't sim" or quits against you it means what you were doing was cheesy. And if you refuse to try to look at it from their point of view then you are kind of a jerk.

There comes a point when you're like, "I'm going to keep doing this my way and I don't care if it makes him angry." Or you'll say, "Well, for this game I will stop playing zone just to show him that I don't need it to win."

You can't compare the NBA to 2k because 2k has a lot of differences. The defenders are actually better on 2k than they are in the NBA because they don't make mistakes. Depending on what player you are controlling in the zone and what you are doing with it, you could definitely make it cheesy.

If you understand where to be you can probably roam the whole time with no consequences. It's at least a bitch move and maybe even all out cheesy to do the same thing over and over again.

Don't say what about man to man, either... because that would be pretty weak.

It's a game, sure, play to win, but if you want to create a sim experience it comes down to actually catering to the other player as well because both players have to be on the same level in order for optimal enjoyment and therefore getting a real lifelike experience out of the game.

-Smak

On the ball d may be better but the D is tooooo dumb when it comes to the "pass the ball to the cutter in the paint", you can score 70 points in the paint alone on that because the d doesnt put there hands up..

[DemiGodzillla]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Settle down.

No one is whining and they're all having a good discussion. No need to come in with this attitude.

This coming from the someone who made the first reply with a belittling sarcastic comment, lol.

[Pared]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

This coming from the someone who made the first reply with a belittling sarcastic comment, lol.

Maybe you read it that way but that's not how it was intended. That falls on you.

Add to the discussion or don't post. You have any further issues, PM me. Stop derailing the thread. Last warning.

[fluent2332]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Mostly when someone says something "isn't sim" or quits against you it means what you were doing was cheesy. And if you refuse to try to look at it from their point of view then you are kind of a jerk.

Here's looking at it from their point of view. I can't beat the zone, I quit!!! He's so cheesy! Nothing about the zone is cheese and it can be easily defeated by playing smart basketball. Learn to beat the zone instead of crying when it's played against you.

There comes a point when you're like, "I'm going to keep doing this my way and I don't care if it makes him angry." Or you'll say, "Well, for this game I will stop playing zone just to show him that I don't need it to win."

Isn't the point of the game to win? And playing as GS, sometimes we NEED the zone to be effective to win the game, because our individual defense is so terrible. I can't play guys like Radmanovich without trying to hide his liabilities with the zone.

You can't compare the NBA to 2k because 2k has a lot of differences. The defenders are actually better on 2k than they are in the NBA because they don't make mistakes. Depending on what player you are controlling in the zone and what you are doing with it, you could definitely make it cheesy.

Defenders make plenty of mistakes in 2k, especially on help side rotations. I can't tell you how many times I've given up wide open dunks and shots that should have been contested (and in real life they would have been). It doesn't matter what player you control in the zone, basketball is about 5 players playing 5 positions, no matter what I could possibly dream up (like say controlling the PG and doubling everybody all over the court), it's easily counter-able by playing smart and picking your spots. Seriously, there's no way to make a zone "cheesy", because you can pick it the hell apart. How is it cheese if it can be easily beaten?

If you understand where to be you can probably roam the whole time with no consequences. It's at least a bitch move and maybe even all out cheesy to do the same thing over and over again.

How is it cheesy to do the same thing over and over again. In real life wouldn't the coaches do the same thing? Is running the same play over and over again "cheesy" just because you are exploiting some weakness the defense is giving you? No, it's not cheesy, it's smart basketball. In this game you can actually use smart basketball, and do things like run a zone the entire game if the other team doesn't know how to beat it.

Don't say what about man to man, either... because that would be pretty weak.

It's a game, sure, play to win, but if you want to create a sim experience it comes down to actually catering to the other player as well because both players have to be on the same level in order for optimal enjoyment and therefore getting a real lifelike experience out of the game.

How about get on my level instead? Why do I have to go DOWN to his level? Yes, it's going down a notch, because it's forcing me to NOT use options I have at my disposal, for the sake of some kind of "oh this looks like the real NBA" approach. Playing zone looks like the real NBA too when teams do play zone. If you're facing a zone, crush it, and force me to switch defenses. Simple as that. Don't whine about it and quit the game and say "oh he's not sim!! he's cheesy he plays zone!!" when it's clearly a REALISTIC option to use. Playing zone is lifelike, I might just be ahead of the curve. I hope more coaches come out and use zones just to prove my point. Watch the NBA finals, Dallas will play plenty of zone to keep Wade and Lebron out of the paint. But I guess they're not being sim or something. Ridiculous.

-Smak

responses in bold.

[rockchisler]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

How is it cheesy to do the same thing over and over again. In real life wouldn't the coaches do the same thing? Is running the same play over and over again "cheesy" just because you are exploiting some weakness the defense is giving you? No, it's not cheesy, it's smart basketball. In this game you can actually use smart basketball, and do things like run a zone the entire game if the other team doesn't know how to beat it.

.

There is a difference between exploiting a weakness in a teams defense and exploiting a flaw in the game..like the "throw the ball in the paint for a dunk because the cpu does not recognize a ball is going over there head" Exploit, you can do that with every team and score all your points there...But I did notice that the defensive reaction timing IS tied to game speed..47 allows the defense to react to passes in paint and help in defense if you turn play passing lane up to 100.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

Slightly off topic, but aside from the glitched backdown spinout spin dunk, if you font play ranked, and play simulation play style instead of default, almost everything else that gets called cheesy, or an exploit, is actually pretty easily defendable.

[ILLSmak]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

responses in bold.

^^

I said play to win. I don't whine about how people play in video games. I'm just telling you how he feels.

But if you are playing "SIM" and your definition of SIM differs from his and you're making him uncomfortable by your play style, you should try to switch it up because, at the very least, someone who is devoted to playing a true simulation style is rare.

I mean, what would you do if you want into a 2-3 zone and he decided to just go straight up cheese style and beat you down. What would you do then?

Maybe he just likes to a more competitive game where there is a personal player vs player competition and if you sit back in a zone he feels that you are circumventing that...

Don't get mad at me... haha. I'm just telling you the truth. When you say stuff like "Get on my level" that to me proves you have the wrong mindstate for simulation style. You need to stick to 'playing to win' and take your lumps from people who cheese the hell out of you.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

-Smak

[fluent2332]

Re: 2-3 Zone All Game...Completely Legitimate Strategy

^^

I said play to win. I don't whine about how people play in video games. I'm just telling you how he feels.

But if you are playing "SIM" and your definition of SIM differs from his and you're making him uncomfortable by your play style, you should try to switch it up because, at the very least, someone who is devoted to playing a true simulation style is rare.

I mean, what would you do if you want into a 2-3 zone and he decided to just go straight up cheese style and beat you down. What would you do then?

Maybe he just likes to a more competitive game where there is a personal player vs player competition and if you sit back in a zone he feels that you are circumventing that...

Don't get mad at me... haha. I'm just telling you the truth. When you say stuff like "Get on my level" that to me proves you have the wrong mindstate for simulation style. You need to stick to 'playing to win' and take your lumps from people who cheese the hell out of you.

You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

-Smak

I play to enjoy the game, and have a realistic representation of NBA basketball, so that's first and foremost to me. But I still play to win, I mean doesn't everyone? Thing is, I DO play randoms all the time, and have a blast trying to shut down their "cheese". Sure I get worked sometimes, but it's all in good fun. Thing is though, I haven't seen a lot of what you could actually constitute as "cheese". Sure I see players trying to force things with Kobe, or Wade, or jacking up 3s every chance they get, but nothing to me has been an exploit, or cheesy. I guess you could call their tactics cheesy, but the bottom line is those tactics rarely if ever work, so there's no point bitching about it. I haven't come across a gamebreaking exploit yet. The worst I've seen is maybe some lead passing to the paint, after selecting a player to manually cut.

But the point of this whole thread is, the 2-3 zone is nowhere near cheese. And when I say get on my level, I mean you too should use all the options at your disposal. Including all the coaching stuff. If someone isn't comfortable being their own coach that's cool too, but don't knock me because I play the game and use my options. I still do everything else "by the sim rules". I just feel it's completely sim to employ your own strategy on defense, by choosing to use a zone. Sure you don't see it much in the NBA, but that doesn't make it any less viable of an option.