No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

Why is it that when folks found out that there's no crew mode, everybody applauded and jumped on everyone who was upset about it.... And laughed and told them not to buy the game....But as soon as someone complains and cries about offline association and they are told the same thing, folks swoop down outta the sky like super heroes to defend the offline guy....? This is not to start an argument or anything like that....I'm just wondering....

Because of hackers, Crews was broken man. It was just a reminder of how many crappy people there are out there. And the games were a TOTAL cheesy mess. Very little semblance of real basketball play. The public and the game are simply not ready.

[2slik]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

Why is it that when folks found out that there's no crew mode, everybody applauded and jumped on everyone who was upset about it.... And laughed and told them not to buy the game....But as soon as someone complains and cries about offline association and they are told the same thing, folks swoop down outta the sky like super heroes to defend the offline guy....? This is not to start an argument or anything like that....I'm just wondering....

It's because everyone knows that people who play crew are in the "minority", so it's OK to lambast the little group, but when people who play offline association exclusively are lambasted, they realise that they are also just a little group now and that they are no longer the majority. The bullies have become the bullied and they cannot accept the fact times are changing...

[kjjnesb]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

That's a totally fair response man. You have to remember that this thread is just the continuation of a discussion that's almost beat to death. There is certainly nothing wrong with being worried that some of the offline issues were not giving the full attention of the team. But I think that would be pretty understandable considering the massive undertaking that is online Association. And he could even be disappointed. But all of this is a big *IF* because nothing has been said. The replies aren't just to the OP, but to the others that pile on with even more fervor and come with some harsh criticism that are unwarranted based on the known FACTS. The people that have been to the dev studios or have met the devs elsewhere have attested to the commitment of all of the devs from EA to VC to Sony and on. They all have shortcomings, but never have those shortcomings been laziness, or just not caring.

I completely understand what your saying I think most of us offline association guys are just frustrated because of the lack of acknowledgement thus far and it leads to people reading between the line like this guy. I for one would completely understand if 2k came out and said "hey we tweaked some things but offline association was not the focus online was" but regardless there have been so many improvements in other areas its still worth the purchase.

[miller31time]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

How do you know that they didn't make tweaks to it? Do you have the game? How do you know they made no improvements to it? Early impressions from those that actually have the game say that certain things have been tweaked to make it better.

As always, I love the "you don't own it so you have no clue what you're talking about" argument. How do any of us know anything about something we don't own and haven't played - reports and updates. They have made no such announcement on improvements to Association Mode. They are not going to release an Association insight. Thus, I am to believe that no real changes were made. Maybe slight tweaks to certain things that are hardly noticeable but if that's what you accept as a passable upgrade, than you are far more easily pleased than most people.

Sure it's not the massive overhaul that some may have wanted, but I think the progress they've made adding online association, as well as improving MyPlayer and adding more legends is great. But you're never going to please everyone of course.

It's great that you think that's great. But you do not represent everyone (and neither do I for that matter). What I do represent is a large base of 2K's customers who play offline Association.

It's absolutely true that you're never going to please everyone. And if this were a topic about Nick Young not having his afro, therefore the OP will not get the game, you'd be spot-on in your gripe and frustration. Unfortunately, what they failed to pay attention to isn't a quasi-insignificant hairstyle - it's a prominent mode that (as I mentioned) is the crux of most sports games.

No game developer is going to please everyone, but it's probably a good idea to please large percentages of your fan-base.

It is what it is. Online gaming IS the future...heck, it's the present. Why do you think games like COD are so successful? Not for offline, but online. And 2K's taking a big step in that area by adding online association. Yet you have people here acting like 2k peed in their cereal or something. Again, not saying it's wrong to be upset, but if you really feel that strongly about it then don't buy it. But OP seems content with buying a product that he doesn't like. If so, then joke's on him.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Sports games and games like COD have different bases, different objectives and varying degrees of those who purchase to play online or offline.

You're not off-target that online play will become increasingly prevalent in gaming as the years progress but to focus one's efforts on improving an online mode while essentially forgetting the offline mode seems extreme to say the least.

And for the record, this slight isn't going to keep me (and most offline Association players) from buying the game. It's going to make the overall experience worse. Still enjoyable, though.

[SJdaKiiD]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

First of all, I'm not a moderator. Second of all, I'm not complaining about complaining. I'm talking about a guy making a wishlist thread for 2K13 before he's even played 2K12. 2K never promised that Association was going to be improved.

And like Boilerbuzz put it, OP is reading between the lines and criticizing the game because they didn't make the improvements HE wanted. There are impressions that say Offline Assoc has improved in some aspects, so to say it hasn't changed or is the same as last year seems to be a false statement.

There's plenty of people that were looking to online association as the next step and are happy that that's been added. Again I'm not saying it's wrong to complain, but to judge before you even play the game is wrong.

And my response is, what proof do YOU have that he IS wrong. Until you have some proof of your own, how can you criticize him for complaining about what he wants without proof that it isn't there? That's called being a hypocrite. YES it is what HE wants but he registered to the OS forums just like you did so that he can say his OPINIONS just like you can. Turn fanboy mode off and think how you would feel if as soon as you said something, someone jumped down your throat. I'm not really defending him because I couldn't care less about how you treat him, but you seem ignorant to the point of forums, and ignorance annoys me. That is why i RARELY comment on forums. Like i said before, nothing wrong with you having YOUR OWN opinions of the game, but why do you deem it necessary to come at him because he wants to point out a POSSIBLE flaw in the game.

Also, I read the impressions thread and know exactly what post you are referring to. The person who wrote it didn't even call the "tweaks" improvements (get a quote to disprove me), so why are you saying that anyone said it was improved over last year. That statement is absolutely incorrect. No one who owned the game said the association was improved, but that there were merely some "tweaks". I hope you continue to defend 2k when the game actually releases and there are 50 threads about an overall unchanged association mode. Your strong loyalty to a company/game developer that doesn't pay you a salary is uncommon and amusing.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

I completely understand what your saying I think most of us offline association guys are just frustrated because of the lack of acknowledgement thus far and it leads to people reading between the line like this guy. I for one would completely understand if 2k came out and said "hey we tweaked some things but offline association was not the focus online was" but regardless there have been so many improvements in other areas its still worth the purchase.

I'd bet that THIS is closer to the truth than what the OP posted.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

And my response is, what proof do YOU have that he IS wrong. Until you have some proof of your own, how can you criticize him for complaining about what he wants without proof that it isn't there?

That's a bad arguement. First, he never said the OP was right or wrong. Just noted that they COULD be wrong and that there was no point in getting severly bent about something we know nothing about. Secondly, the OP is presented with the burden of proof. He/she made the initial accusation that nothing was done. Not the respondent. The OP started the thread. He/she was only presented a counterpoint. Third, and most importantly, the OP came to a conclusion that was based on absolutely no information from the devs or the media. In the end neither side can draw a conclusion. The difference is that the OP is drawing conclusions and the respondents are not.

The most valuable thing about the OPs first post was that it detailed issues that do need to be addressed. And I'm sure that no one that plays the mode would disagree with that list. But to concluded that none of it was addressed to SOME degree (enough for some, not enough for others), is based on nothing but guess work. And doing that should ALWAYS be challenged.

[2slik]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

It's great that you think that's great. But you do not represent everyone (and neither do I for that matter). What I do represent is a large base of 2K's customers who play offline Association.

No game developer is going to please everyone, but it's probably a good idea to please large percentages of your fan-base.

comparing apples to oranges. Sports games and games like COD have different bases, different objectives and varying degrees of those who purchase to play online or offline.

You're not off-target that online play will become increasingly prevalent in gaming as the years progress but to focus one's efforts on improving an online mode while essentially forgetting the offline mode seems extreme to say the least.

Can you quantify this large base? I'm willing to bet that more people play online than offline. In that case isn't it justified? The ever growing online community has felt slighted year after year. Out of the three major 2K websites, two of them are obsessed by online. Why shouldn't they have priority?

You wouldn't bothered if online mode was essentially forgotten in favour of the offline mode would you? Because that's what has been happening over the past several years.

Let's face the facts. Online association is going to make offline assoc. redundant and the only guys who will still play offline are going to be like those who want to listen to old records on a turntable system: because it's retro.

[miller31time]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

Can you quantify this large base? I'm willing to bet that more people play online than offline. In that case isn't it justified? The ever growing online community has felt slighted year after year. Out of the three major 2K websites, two of them are obsessed by online. Why shouldn't they have priority?

You wouldn't bothered if online mode was essentially forgotten in favour of the offline mode would you? Because that's what has been happening over the past several years.

No, I can't quantify it just like you can't quantify your assumption. But I think both of us are correct (my point that offline players make up a good amount of their base, AND your point that there are more online users than offline users). You're making the incorrect assumption that they are mutually exclusive points.

And while I wouldn't be affected by 2K deciding to continue ignoring online play, that doesn't mean it doesn't (and didn't) bother me that a major game developer ignored large parts of their fan-base. That's another incorrect assumption by you. Just because something doesn't affect someone personally, it doesn't mean said persons' view of the game and developers doesn't get taken down a notch.

Let's face the facts. Online association is going to make offline assoc. redundant and the only guys who will still play offline are going to be like those who want to listen to old records on a turntable system: because it's retro.

Well, at least we haven't reached the point of making broad, sweeping generalizations.

[kjjnesb]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

Let's face the facts. Online association is going to make offline assoc. redundant and the only guys who will still play offline are going to be like those who want to listen to old records on a turntable system: because it's retro.

Dude chill there will be a place for both online and offline association in the future. With games like COD I can play a lot one week then pick the game up weeks later if life gets busy with school or work. Not so sure you can do that with online association where people are counting on you to play with in a reasonable amount of time. Then there's the fact that some people like to play association with certain ratings sliders draft classes etc people you play with online may not agree with your degree of customization so you would have offline to play.

[SJdaKiiD]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

That's a bad arguement. First, he never said the OP was right or wrong. Just noted that they COULD be wrong and that there was no point in getting severly bent about something we know nothing about. Secondly, the OP is presented with the burden of proof. He/she made the initial accusation that nothing was done. Not the respondent. The OP started the thread. He/she was only presented a counterpoint. Third, and most importantly, the OP came to a conclusion that was based on absolutely no information from the devs or the media. In the end neither side can draw a conclusion. The difference is that the OP is drawing conclusions and the respondents are not.

The most valuable thing about the OPs first post was that it detailed issues that do need to be addressed. And I'm sure that no one that plays the mode would disagree with that list. But to concluded that none of it was addressed to SOME degree (enough for some, not enough for others), is based on nothing but guess work. And doing that should ALWAYS be challenged.

You make a great point, and I agree that it should be challenged, but he shouldn't be put down. Its unnecessary to draw negative conclusions about him as a person/gamer based on his comments on here, and then broadcast them as if it proves a point. I was also challenging the idea that someone who has a complaint should essentially just "shut up and not buy the game". That's pure ignorance, but I know you didn't say that.

[Melo7NYKtru]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

Let's face the facts. Online association is going to make offline assoc. redundant and the only guys who will still play offline are going to be like those who want to listen to old records on a turntable system: because it's retro.

lol. Not true. I'll play association by myself still. I'll be playing online association and offline association just as much as each other.

[2slik]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

lol. Not true. I'll play association by myself still. I'll be playing online association and offline association just as much as each other.

Lol sure. You do know that you can have CPU teams on online association? So where does that leave offline association in a few years time?

In the cesspools of redundancy.

[..GameOver..]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

The improvements in offline association happen when you play the game. Not trying to be smart here but AI has received an upgrade and the gameplay has received some upgrades. Isn't that technically an update to the offline association as well as every other mode?

[kjjnesb]

Re: No Improvements To Offline Association huh?

Lol sure. You do know that you can have CPU teams on online association? So where does that leave offline association in a few years time?

In the cesspools of redundancy.

So if I have 31 CPU controlled teams does that not become an offline association I mean what would be the point? lol If anything I could see 2k merging them into one menu but offline will always still be an option.