Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

[Introcollapse]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Okay, some more news on potential. Be careful when editing it. It is in fact the overall rating cap. I recently decided to edit every NBA player's potential to 80 to see what would happen. Anyone over 80 didn't progress at all. Anyone below it sky-rocketed.

Again, careful when editing potential. Make sure you keep what you want the player to be able to max out at.

[haloofduty]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Ok its been determined that to get realistic rotation minutes in association you have to control all 30 teams with injuries off. I discovered another problem. I was controlling all 30 teams and noticed the ai doesn't set player roles right when you get to the next season. I have seen teams with 5 six man roles, only 2 starters, 7 starters ect. Just try it.

Yes I have the computer control player roles on. Control all 30 teams with injuries and lineup management off. Computer control player roles on. Sim a season and at the start of the next season go into rotations and see the stupidity. I try to find workarounds to enjoy the game and then discover another problem.

So if you wanna have a realistic association experience you have to control all 30 teams, set rotation minutes every season for every team and set player roles every season. 2k maybe y'all should have left association the way it was. Us association players got downgrades instead of upgrades.

[Jukeman]

Okay, some more news on potential. Be careful when editing it. It is in fact the overall rating cap. I recently decided to edit every NBA player's potential to 80 to see what would happen. Anyone over 80 didn't progress at all. Anyone below it sky-rocketed.

Again, careful when editing potential. Make sure you keep what you want the player to be able to max out at.

What were the ages of these 80+ OVR players? I now there isn't too many young 80+ OVR players, besides Rose and BG I can't think of now. Maybe age played a factor? Or did these players progress when you raised their POT above their OVR?


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[Introcollapse]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

What were the ages of these 80+ OVR players? I now there isn't too many young 80+ OVR players, besides Rose and BG I can't think of now. Maybe age played a factor? Or did these players progress when you raised their POT above their OVR?


Sent from my HumancentiPad using Tapatalk

It's weird.

If I have two 19 year olds with 80 potential, but one starts at 80 overall and one starts at 65 overall, the 65 will end up with a higher overall in the end. The 80 guy will top off at 83-84. The 65 guy will end up 85-89.

Why? The potential rating itself increases as a player develops. The potential rating isn't a cap like I originally thought, but it's close. A player will likely end up being 1-3 overall higher than their end potential rating before they get worse.

So again, you need to be careful. If you let Avery Bradley keep his 84 potential rating, he'll probably hit 90 overall. If you let Thaddeus Young keep his 78 potential, he'll hit 80 or so.

It's weird. It's dumb. It needs to be addressed in 2K13.

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

....and here's where I come in.

I promised I would post my recommended edits for player potentials league-wide so you guys end up with more realistic associations. Here are all of the recommended changes to player potential (if you want to make them)...

NOTE: I'm editing on PS3. These will be posted in the rosters section of these forums as well as on 2K share when they are fully ready. I'm still working out a few last kinks.

Some notes:
- I'm not the expert with CAP potentials...if POT directly reflects the overall rating +/- 1 to 3 points with rookie CAPs, I'm not disputing it...this is strictly for players already in the game.
- The potential rating varies dramatically from player to player who is already coded into the game. 2K12 has hard-coding for certain players, and it takes a considerable amount of tweaking to create a new potential rating to reflect where they "should" end up in real life 5-10 years down the road. Obviously, this is subjective...which is why I'm posting the peak overall rating they reached in my 10 year association run. If you don't like where they end up, make your own decisions. I'm not posting these for you guys to argue with me...just take the overall you see and use it as a rule of thumb.
- These are just the players that need adjustments IMO...for every player that doesn't show up on this list, you don't need to fix his POT if you don't want to...he'll progress just fine.
- Every time you run a 10 year simulation, the ratings the guys end up with vary by 1-2 points. This is a GOOD thing - it means 2K has some variability between simulations. Awesome.
- The whole point of doing this is to A) Create a continual balance of talent in your association in future seasons so that the league isn't flooded with star players, making teams unable to afford them and having them sit in free agency B) To even out the balance between veterans and young rookies...if a vast majority of young players are leaping forward 10 points in 2 years, there is no point in having veterans on your team...you might as well continuously trade for younger players because they are progressing at such a high rate that they will be equal to the veterans in just 2-3 years. Not good. Younger players are valued too highly IMO because they are progressing far too quickly. This seeks to fix that.

So without further ado, here are the recommended adjustments to your Association rosters before you begin an association:

PLAYER NAME ORIGINAL POT--->ADJUSTED POT [PEAK OVL]

Derrick Rose 94-->97 (+3) [96 ovl]
John Wall 97-->95 (-2) [95 ovl]
Blake Griffin 93-->92 (-1) [92 ovl]
Chauncey Billups 93-->90 (-3) [79 ovl]
Rajon Rondo 92-->90 (-2) [87 ovl]
Joe Johnson 93-->90 (-3) [84 ovl]
Russell Westbrook 91-->89 (-2) [90 ovl]
Danny Granger 94-->90 (-4) [81 ovl]
Chris Bosh 94-->90(-4) [83 ovl]
Stephen Curry 90-->87 (-3) [87 ovl]
Tyreke Evans 90-->87(-3) [90 ovl]
Vince Carter 96-->90 (-6) [76 ovl]
Elton Brand 92-->88 (-4) [77 ovl]
LaMarcus Aldridge 88-->86 (-2) [83 ovl]
Brook Lopez 90-->84 (-6) [83 ovl]
Kevin Martin 87-->84 (-3) [79 ovl]
OJ Mayo 91-->83 (-8) [84 ovl]
Evan Turner 91-->83 (-8) [82 ovl]
Ty Lawson 86-->83(-3) [83 ovl]
Michael Beasley 84-->83(-1) [86 ovl]
Brandon Jennings 89-->83(-6) [87 ovl]
Joakim Noah 85-->83(-2) [84 ovl]
Kevin Love 82-->83 (+1) [85 ovl]
Marc Gasol 80-->83 (+3) [80 ovl]
Carlos Boozer 93-->83 (-10) [77 ovl]
Paul George 85-->82 (-3) [86 ovl]
Wesley Johnson 85-->82 (-3) [79 ovl]
Wilson Chandler 84-->82 (-2) [83 ovl]
Al Horford 86-->82 (-4) [82 ovl]
Tyrus Thomas 85-->82 (-3) [80 ovl]
Mario Chalmers 80-->82 (+2) [73 ovl]
Danilo Gallinari 84-->81 (-3) [82 ovl]
Rodney Stuckey 84-->81 (-3) [77 ovl]
DeMarcus Cousins 93-->80 (-13) [90 ovl]
Roy Hibbert 81-->80 (-1) [83 ovl]
James Harden 84-->80 (-4) [84 ovl]
Patrick Patterson 82-->80 (-2) [84 ovl]
Darren Collison 81-->80 (-1) [82 ovl]
Johnny Flynn 81-->80 (-1) [81 ovl]
Gilbert Arenas 95-->85 (-10) [77 ovl]
Caron Butler 92-->85 (-7) [81 ovl]
Derrick Favors 92-->79 (-13) [87 ovl]
DeMar DeRozan 84-->79 (-5) [82 ovl]
Michael Conley 80-->78 (-2) [79 ovl]
DJ Augustin 79-->78 (-1) [80 ovl]
Landry Fields 78-->77 (-1) [82 ovl]
Tracy McGrady 97-->77 (-20) [69 ovl]
Nicolas Batum 78-->77 (-1) [80 ovl]
Ricky Rubio 88-->76 (-12) [88 ovl]
Greg Oden 80-->76 (-4) [78 ovl]
Javale McGee 79-->76 (-3) [80 ovl]
Eric Bledsoe 80-->75 (-5) [80 ovl]
Ed Davis 80-->75 (-5) [80 ovl]
Brandon Roy 85-->75 (-10) [78 ovl]
Serge Ibaka 70-->75 (+5) [77 ovl]
Thaddeus Young 78-->75 (-3) [77 ovl]
Larry Sanders 78-->75 (-3) [79 ovl]
Anthony Randolph 85-->77 (-8) [80 ovl]
Al Farouq Aminu 78-->76 (-2) [79 ovl]
DeJuan Blair 78-->74 (-4) [77 ovl]
Greg Monroe 82-->74 (-8) [79 ovl]
Jerryd Bayless 78-->74 (-4) [79 ovl]
Taj Gibson 72-->74 (+2) [75 ovl]
Rodrigue Beaubois 76-->74 (-2) [75 ovl]
Jordan Crawford 75-->74 (-1) [77 ovl]
DeAndre Jordan 68-->73 (+5) [77 ovl]
Mareese Speights 76-->73 (-3) [75 ovl]
Xavier Henry 80-->72 (-8) [80 ovl]
James Anderson 74-->72 (-2) [74 ovl]
Robin Lopez 72-->70 (-2) [74 ovl]
Yi Jianlian 85-->69 (-16) [72 ovl]
Gordon Hayward 78-->69 (-9) [74 ovl]
Avery Bradley 80-->69 (-11) [73 ovl]

I'll restate what I said before: You may not agree with the overall ratings these players will end up with...tweak to your heart's content. I set their levels because without doing something your association will end up misbalanced as soon as 5 years into the future.

Even the smallest +/- 1/2 point tweaks you see can make a huge difference in progression...a previous poster mentioned that a player's potential rating may increase from year to year...sometimes it's only a single point that influences this transition. And it also means the difference between a player ending up 90 overall and 80 overall. In other words, it's HUGE.

Hope these help, and once again, look for them in the rosters section soon.

[Comduklakis]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Appreciate the work Swagger but once concern. I noticed that you adjusted the potential primarily for younger players (with a few exceptions, Vince Carter stood out as one). Now while changing their potential may help with stats and with improving league balance, atleast in the first few years of an Association, the trade logic will still be really bad because guys like Duncan have such high potential if you don't edit it. I realize that a few years into any association the same problem will come up (older players with their 90 potential getting traded for way too much), but if you edit the KGs and Duncans and whatnot you might hold off the trade issues for a little longer. that said, I figure I personally will control all trades again with 30 team control, but I thought I might point this issue out for those who don't want to take that kind of time.

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Appreciate the work Swagger but once concern. I noticed that you adjusted the potential primarily for younger players (with a few exceptions, Vince Carter stood out as one). Now while changing their potential may help with stats and with improving league balance, atleast in the first few years of an Association, the trade logic will still be really bad because guys like Duncan have such high potential if you don't edit it. I realize that a few years into any association the same problem will come up (older players with their 90 potential getting traded for way too much), but if you edit the KGs and Duncans and whatnot you might hold off the trade issues for a little longer. that said, I figure I personally will control all trades again with 30 team control, but I thought I might point this issue out for those who don't want to take that kind of time.

Yeah I haven't analyzed anything in regard to trade logic.

An option you always have is going into players you don't want to see traded, and editing their contract to include a no-trade clause.

[2KRican]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I Hate how some people abuse of the "Veto" power. I mean if the trade is unfair is okay but people are using this just to avoid some players to be traded to their conferences.

[volstopfan14]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Quick question about the list of players potential. Will the number in parentheses change based on changes in the players ovr? For example, lets look at Danilio Gallinari

Danilo Gallinari 84-->81 (-3) [82 ovl]

So his original ovr is 67 and original pot is 84. According to this, if I lower his pot by 2, hius max ovr later in association will be 82. My question is will that number change based on what his ovr is to start the association? I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, tell me and I'll try to re-phrase it.

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Quick question about the list of players potential. Will the number in parentheses change based on changes in the players ovr? For example, lets look at Danilio Gallinari

Danilo Gallinari 84-->81 (-3) [82 ovl]

So his original ovr is 67 and original pot is 84. According to this, if I lower his pot by 2, hius max ovr later in association will be 82. My question is will that number change based on what his ovr is to start the association? I hope that makes sense. If it doesn't, tell me and I'll try to re-phrase it.

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

I haven't personally tested anything in the area of adjusting player overall ratings before the season starts...I can tell you that giving a player a different starting overall rating probably affects their overall...but I can't verify that with 100% certainty yet.

Update: I'm working with BEdwardsRoy on his PS3 Roster Collaboration with updated 2011 rookies, new tendencies for all players, and adjusted ratings. I'm going to take the finalized roster they come up with and analyze the potential ratings across the board to put the finishing touch on the players and fine tune their new potentials.

We should end up with a KILLER PS3 roster. For those on 360, I will be posting all the changes I made in this thread manually so you can make the tweaks yourself.

You can find that thread here:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...w-rookies.html

[volstopfan14]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Yeah, I get what you're saying.

I haven't personally tested anything in the area of adjusting player overall ratings before the season starts...I can tell you that giving a player a different starting overall rating probably affects their overall...but I can't verify that with 100% certainty yet.

Update: I'm working with BEdwardsRoy on his PS3 Roster Collaboration with updated 2011 rookies, new tendencies for all players, and adjusted ratings. I'm going to take the finalized roster they come up with and analyze the potential ratings across the board to put the finishing touch on the players and fine tune their new potentials.

We should end up with a KILLER PS3 roster. For those on 360, I will be posting all the changes I made in this thread manually so you can make the tweaks yourself.

You can find that thread here:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...w-rookies.html

Ok that sounds good. I was thinking about doing a PS3 roster myself but I guess I will just wait for that roster.

[wize250]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I dropped several older players potential by 10-20 points and this had the desired effect of 10+ people age 34-40 retiring each season instead of hanging around.

[Reggie31]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I will preface my statement with the fact that i am not the biggest NBA buff and i probably know less about it than the other two major sports.

As far as old players progressing, ive heard this idea mentioned before, but we need dynamic progression for players like kg, ray allen, steve nash or kobe. Those players should continue to grow worse at things like quickness vertical or speed. However, imo players like kobe will continue to find ways to get better and stay relevant like dawr or 3pt shooting.

I have heard alot of arguments that players in 2k12 retire too late. With medical advancements career ending injuries are becoming less common and it seems more and more up to the desire of the player to continue playing. K mart for example he had both of his knees rebuilt 15 yrs ago that would have been it for him but now he is still a very useful player. Im not sure of the average retiring age in 2k12 but an arguement could be made for later than you would expect. Just off the top of my head players that retired recently Bruce Bowen at 39, Lindsey Hunter 40, Rasheed 36, and Shaq 38. BTW Grant hill at 39 is still averaging 30 mpg 10 ppg and almost 5 rpg pretty good considering all those surgeries and career threatening injuries he has suffered

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I will preface my statement with the fact that i am not the biggest NBA buff and i probably know less about it than the other two major sports.

As far as old players progressing, ive heard this idea mentioned before, but we need dynamic progression for players like kg, ray allen, steve nash or kobe. Those players should continue to grow worse at things like quickness vertical or speed. However, imo players like kobe will continue to find ways to get better and stay relevant like dawr or 3pt shooting.

I have heard alot of arguments that players in 2k12 retire too late. With medical advancements career ending injuries are becoming less common and it seems more and more up to the desire of the player to continue playing. K mart for example he had both of his knees rebuilt 15 yrs ago that would have been it for him but now he is still a very useful player. Im not sure of the average retiring age in 2k12 but an arguement could be made for later than you would expect. Just off the top of my head players that retired recently Bruce Bowen at 39, Lindsey Hunter 40, Rasheed 36, and Shaq 38. BTW Grant hill at 39 is still averaging 30 mpg 10 ppg and almost 5 rpg pretty good considering all those surgeries and career threatening injuries he has suffered

Completely agree. I would love to see dynamic progression and dynamic regression in players.

It would be nice to be able to see players evolve over time in the ways you mentioned...IE seeing Kobe lose his quickness but gain post skills and awareness. I'm not sure current players are losing quickness at the rate they should (or if they even lose quickness - might experiment with this myself).

Also, 2K doesn't take into account players having "down years" or dips in their rating...everyone progresses in a linear method.

So if a player starts off as a 70 OVL rookie, he'll +3, +2, +2, +3, +1, +1, +1 until he's maxed out at 83...then +0, +0, then -1, -2, etc.

I would like to see a way to have players progress more sporadically...let's see that same guy come into the league as 70 OVL, then go +3, -1, +5, +0, -1, +2, etc. This is, in fact, how most players progress. Everyone has down years.

This is another reason why your association becomes flooded with too much talent...players never regress mid-career.

[jinntu]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

What were the ages of these 80+ OVR players? I now there isn't too many young 80+ OVR players, besides Rose and BG I can't think of now. Maybe age played a factor? Or did these players progress when you raised their POT above their OVR?


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This. It's age. Guys don't really develop until between 23-27. You will notice their ratings explode between those years. The Potential isn't a ratings cap and a guy with 80 potential can reach 99ovr if he starts high enough. The variables are MPG, games played and age.